UK 'Blacked up' Morris dancers harassed, accused of racism

If you google photos of Morris Dancing you will see many pictures of the dancers, and most groups have dropped the blackface part of the tradition and they all look happy enough dancing away in the photos.. so it isnt even a necessary part of the costume.
 
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Morris Dancers in black face
 
Black Pete Festival

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Come on... this isnt a "wholesome" tradition.
 
Freesia said:
Also, blackening their face with coal dust doesnt indicate they were not trying to look like an African person, it indicates that coal dust in those days was useful if they wanted to create a racist blackface pantomime.
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Was that directed towards me? o_OI was saying that was my father's opinion back in the 80s, not my own, in case that wasn't obvious.
 
Mischief said:
What there is a scholarly consensus on is that the name o the dancing originates with the term "Moor/Moorish", and that certainly coincides with the idea of blackface.
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Sources? I disagree that there is scholarly consensus regarding the etymology.

Also, the theories regarding etymology and the theories of the origin of blackened faces in morris dancing are not mutually exclusive.
Freesia said:
If you google photos of Morris Dancing you will see many pictures of the dancers, and most groups have dropped the blackface part of the tradition and they all look happy enough dancing away in the photos.. so it isnt even a necessary part of the costume.
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Blackened faces are only part of a couple of the morris dancing styles (Molly dancers and border morris). The other styles don't have any tradition for this.
Freesia said:
Black Pete Festival
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Not at all the same thing as morris dancing!
 
Indian Summer said:
Sources? I disagree that there is scholarly consensus regarding the etymology.

Also, the theories regarding etymology and the theories of the origin of blackened faces in morris dancing are not mutually exclusive.

Blackened faces are only part of a couple of the morris dancing styles (Molly dancers and border morris). The other styles don't have any tradition for this.

Not at all the same thing as morris dancing!
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Is it really "Morris dancing though.. when the original term was Moorish Danse, or Moriskentanz .. Morris or Molly are just Celtic/Anglicised versions of the original term, which describes a fusion folk dance which was heavily influenced at the time by the medieval fashion for all things Moor...

it is possible that the black paint has some other reason but it is highly likely that they wanted to look like Moors because they thought it would add an authentic touch to their new dance style.

That does make it possibly like Black Pete, if it is true that they were trying to look like Moors, but still it is problematic if this turns out to be the reason for it. As it is we dont know why they have the paint.

Morris dance - Wikipedia
 
Why is it that people in Europe (and especially Britain) act like traditional racism is some weird isolated thing that happens only in other countries (especially the US), as if Britain wasn't the greatest colonial power on Earth for hundreds of years thanks to violent racist imperialism? White Americans came from Europe. Our awful traditions and attitudes are just an extension of yours.

The specifics of this aren't worth debating. It's blackface, it's clearly racist whether you're in Europe or the US. Even if you truly, wholeheartedly believe the tradition doesn't come from a racist place, it's very obviously racist in a modern (and even recent historical) context. At the very least, something that actively hurts and alienates real people for a very understandable reason isn't worth fussing over semantics.
 
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FortyTwo said:
Why is it that people in Europe (and especially Britain) act like traditional racism is some weird isolated thing that happens only in other countries
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Uh, they don't, where would you get an idea like that?:confused: There is racism here of course, especially with older people, but the attitudes have changed so much since I was younger. There has been a definite negative change in attitudes to immigrants with some people over the past decade or so, but it doesn't seem to be purely a racial thing.

I live in one of the most open-minded, multicultural, ethnically diverse, tolerant cities in the world, where we have just elected a Muslim mayor. That is probably why I haven't seen a blacked up Morris dancer since I was a kid. The people that still do this must be a tiny minority of the population.
 
Moll Flanders said:
Uh, they don't, where would you get an idea like that?:confused: There is racism here of course, especially with older people, but the attitudes have changed so much since I was younger. There has been a definite negative change in attitudes to immigrants with some people over the past decade or so, but it doesn't seem to be purely a racial thing.

I live in one of the most open-minded, multicultural, ethnically diverse, tolerant cities in the world, where we have just elected a Muslim mayor. That is probably why I haven't seen a blacked up Morris dancer since I was a kid. The people that still do this must be a tiny minority of the population.
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I'm not saying all European people do it, not even remotely. But in discussions of racism I see a lot of "racism is different over here" rhetoric, as though one wasn't spawned from the other, and as though Europe doesn't have its fair share of Fascist political leaders and movements (some of which are gaining an alarming amount of power).
 
ETA - I keep meaning to say that when I first heard about this happening in Birmingham, I thought what were they thinking?! Birmingham is a very ethnically diverse city also.Demography of Birmingham - Wikipedia You would have thought one of the dancers might have thought it might be a bad idea. I don't know how people can be so clueless.

FortyTwo said:
I'm not saying all European people do it, not even remotely. But in discussions of racism I see a lot of "racism is different over here" rhetoric, as though one wasn't spawned from the other, and as though Europe doesn't have its fair share of Fascist political leaders and movements (some of which are gaining an alarming amount of power).
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Yes, that is worrying.
 
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FortyTwo said:
I'm not saying all European people do it, not even remotely. But in discussions of racism I see a lot of "racism is different over here" rhetoric, as though one wasn't spawned from the other, and as though Europe doesn't have its fair share of Fascist political leaders and movements (some of which are gaining an alarming amount of power).
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I'm no expert, but I believe that a majority of the perceived difference in racism is due to gun culture.

American racism seems so much more prominent and violent because people are getting shot daily, and guns aren't really a thing here, so Europeans feel justified in saying "well, that would never happen here". They attribute the fact that shootings are far, far less common to the lack of racism rather than the lack of guns. But the attitudes evidently aren't all that different - as you said, some horrific fascists are gaining power in Europe.
 
AeryFairy said:
I'm no expert, but I believe that a majority of the perceived difference in racism is due to gun culture.

American racism seems so much more prominent and violent because people are getting shot daily, and guns aren't really a thing here, so Europeans feel justified in saying "well, that would never happen here". They attribute the fact that shootings are far, far less common to the lack of racism rather than the lack of guns. But the attitudes evidently aren't all that different - as you said, some horrific fascists are gaining power in Europe.
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Do Europeans think that people being shot in the US are shot because of racism? The majority of murders here are committed by people of the same race as their victim.
 
ledboots said:
Do Europeans think that people being shot in the US are shot because of racism? The majority of murders here are committed by people of the same race as their victim.
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Except people get shot due to racism literally all the time in the US. It's an epidemic.

See, I know you love the narrative of people on this forum needlessly targeting poor conservatives, but y'all go and say **** like this, which erases the real life horrors faced constantly by real people to fit a feel-good narrative. That **** isn't cute, and sure isn't helpful in addressing the actual problem.
 
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