Are Vegans Exclusivist? What do you think?

[Bite Size Vegan]

have any of you found your journey to veganism/vegetarianism had been met with any hostility or just rudeness?

i find that unfortunately many of my fellow vegans (not you guys!)

are hostile to non-veggies. this doesn't seem like the best way to help people go veg (or much help to the animals or environment!)

i think ANYONE can be vegan. but i've seen veggies exclude conservatives, religious individuals, republicans, etc.

i'm curious as to other's experiences. i was so frustrated about some vegans' treatment of the veg-curious that i made a vid on Vegan "Douchery" (no, not a real word…but you get it, right?)

 

[ledboots]

I think that vegan douchery stems from non-vegans' douchery against vegans.

 

[Bite Size Vegan]

I think that vegan douchery stems from non-vegans' douchery against vegans.

oh very much so, led boots. at least for me that's certainly true. i have to temper myself with the overall goal of saving animals. what comes out of my mouth is not at all necessarily what i think in my head

 

[Second Summer]

I haven't experienced any problems myself, personally, but then I was a very typical liberal / socialist / libertarian on most issues at the time.

This board has as its number one rule that members have to be vegetarian of some flavour, or transitioning. I'm sure that can come off as exclusiveness to some, but that's not the intention. It's just that meat-eaters are all around us in our daily lives, so it's nice to have a "safe haven" in that regard. This board is more about support and helping people stay veg*n than it is about converting meat-eaters to veg*ism.

I do notice from time to time that some in our flock have very strong liberal opinions on issues relating to sexual orientation, gender identity, feminism etc. and dissenting voices (also in our flock) are told off, sometimes with quite hostile language. But maybe that is a bit on the side of the issues you raise here.

 

[mary1]

I have not encountered any "douchebag" vegans in real life. Only some people with strong opinions and (I suspect) new-vegan-syndrome being a bit over the top in online discussions. By new-vegan-syndrome, I mean that stage right after we realize OMG using animals is WRONG and proceed to become disgusted and angry with the world! I had that stage too. I'd like to think I've mellowed out.

 

[Dedalus]

I have found the douchbaggery is prevalent everywhere - and exists in all camps. In the vegan world, I think that it is important to make a distinction between what can be perceived as douchbaggery - and an individual being passionate about their choices. I have been guilty of pinning douchbaggery on people - and later realized they were just speaking from the heart - not trying to be 'exlcusive' or special. So - it's a very fine line. We must all try to be civil and respectful to one another though. I am against mean-spiritedness in all cases.

 

[Calliegirl]

I haven't seen that here, but I've seen a lot of it on Facebook.

 

[Mr Crunchy]

I like to tell people, "Trust me, no one finds annoying vegans more annoying than other vegans". There is a certain amount of doucheness in every population. This is magnified by the uncomfortableness that non-vegans feel when confronted with their own conscious in the presence of a vegan. It is then normal human nature to try to avoid that feeling by transferring blame to the object of their consternation by using ad hominem attacks in an attempt to invalidate the conflicting values and beliefs that their conscious is having difficulty resolving.

 

[Clueless Git]

That's a good video you made there, BSV

If you meant "are vegans exclusivist?" in terms of telling other people that they can't be vegan; Trying to exclude/bar/obstruct others from becoming vegan, even. I've never ever seen that and I have fair few moons under my belt.

I have seen vegan 'purists' though.

By that I mean the type who believe another isn't a 'true' vegan because they haven't invested six months work in ensuring that their PC is fitted with a vegan keyboard and their car has vegan tyres.

 

[Clueless Git]

I'd like to think I've mellowed out.

It's strange that our outrage 'mellows out' when the thing that outraged us hasn't mellowed out at all.

I think a more accurate term than 'mellowed out' would actualy be 'beaten down'.

But yes. I've been beaten down a bit as well.

 

[Ann Chovie]

. By new-vegan-syndrome, I mean that stage right after we realize OMG using animals is WRONG and proceed to become disgusted and angry with the world!.

I know that syndrome well. When I was Vegan the first time round (long story) I remember stomping around in moral outrage wanting to shake people by the shoulders and wake them up.

I was totally miserable and alienated because I was carrying all this new appalling information in my head and I needed everyone to see what I had seen.

As a result I beat the drum very loudly and very ..very often.

 

[mary1]

It's strange that our outrage 'mellows out' when the thing that outraged us hasn't mellowed out at all.

I think a more accurate term than 'mellowed out' would actually be 'beaten down'.

But yes. I've been beaten down a bit as well.

Honestly, I mean mellowed out. I had a very narrow frame of reference. Why didn't people go vegan instantly like ME? It BAFFLED me. But now, I understand more. Slowed down and considered the different emotional paths that others are on. I understood more what made things "click" for myself. I had seen factory farm footage before in passing and dismissed it. But for some reason, after I watched Earthlings (by accident by the way) I just "woke up" and realized I had to go vegan. Now I have more empathy for those who are experiencing cognitive dissonance and have a unconscious hostility towards the idea that animal use is wrong.

 

[beancounter]

A song by Bob Dylan relevant to the discussion:
http://songmeanings.com/songs/view/108647/

My Back Pages
"Crimson flames tied through my ears
Rollin' high and mighty traps
Pounced with fire on flaming roads
Using ideas as my maps
"We'll meet on edges, soon," said I
Proud 'neath heated brow.
Ah, but I was so much older then,
I'm younger than that now.

Half-wracked prejudice leaped forth
"Rip down all hate," I screamed
Lies that life is black and white
Spoke from my skull. I dreamed
Romantic facts of musketeers
Foundationed deep, somehow.
Ah, but I was so much older then,
I'm younger than that now.

Girls' faces formed the forward path
From phony jealousy
To memorizing politics
Of ancient history
Flung down by corpse evangelists
Unthought of, though, somehow.
Ah, but I was so much older then,
I'm younger than that now.

A self-ordained professor's tongue
Too serious to fool
Spouted out that liberty
Is just equality in school
"Equality," I spoke the word
As if a wedding vow.
Ah, but I was so much older then,
I'm younger than that now.

In a soldier's stance, I aimed my hand
At the mongrel dogs who teach
Fearing not that I'd become my enemy
In the instant that I preach
My pathway led by confusion boats
Mutiny from stern to bow.
Ah, but I was so much older then,
I'm younger than that now.

Yes, my guard stood hard when abstract threats
Too noble to neglect
Deceived me into thinking
I had something to protect
Good and bad, I define these terms
Quite clear, no doubt, somehow.
Ah, but I was so much older then,
I'm younger than that now."

 

[Clueless Git]

Honestly, I mean mellowed out. I had a very narrow frame of reference. Why didn't people go vegan instantly like ME? It BAFFLED me. But now, I understand more. Slowed down and considered the different emotional paths that others are on. I understood more what made things "click" for myself. I had seen factory farm footage before in passing and dismissed it. But for some reason, after I watched Earthlings (by accident by the way) I just "woke up" and realized I had to go vegan. Now I have more empathy for those who are experiencing cognitive dissonance and have a unconscious hostility towards the idea that animal use is wrong.

I've never watched Earthlings.

I suspect that it wasn't a production that resulted from the people behind it having mellowed out at all.

 

[Clueless Git]

A song by Bob Dylan relevant to the discussion:
http://songmeanings.com/songs/view/108647/

One of my favourite Dylan tracks, BC.

Wossit mean to you?

 

[PTree15]

I haven't met a lot of vegans in real life, but I have seen douchness in the online vegan world (not here), more in line with what CG was talking about regarding "purists." In that sense, it's more of a label war than anything else, as in you can't call yourself a vegan if you aren't blowing up research labs. Douchebaggery is alive and well in all groups, though, and like Dedalus, I am against mean-spiritedness, period.

 

[SummerRain]

I've met a lot of vegans IRL, and none of them have been exclusive. In fact, there are a couple of people who, in an online community, would be told they're not a vegan (on most sites, quite vehemently I'm sure), and nobody has ever bat an eyelid to their choices or their use of the word "vegan" to describe themselves.

Most vegans haven't met a lot of other vegans, so their impression of veganism is based on online communities. Forums can be pretty exclusive, and places like facebook groups can be downright nasty. My impression IRL has been completely different. I think it's more of an internet-phenomenon than a vegan-phenomenon.

 

[Trinity]

So I've almost always gotten on with people just fine from all walks of life - but I've just had an encounter with a really defensive, in-yer-face vegan onl-line. Gulp! Deep breath.
It was a militant-slam-me-down attitude. It was like the whole world has to go vegan otherwise we hate you approach. OK slight exaggeration there.

My approach to veganism is gentle, welcoming, encouraging, so I found this one REALLY challenging and thought 'it's no wonder why there is a whole anti-vegan brigade out there'. TBH, if I wasn't vegan I would have felt pushed away from it with this encounter.

Phew!!!

 

[Poppy]

While I know quite a few vegans, most of my favorite people irl are not even vegetarian. However, without exception, they do their best to accommodate me. Gotta love that!

 

[prioritarian]

one area where vegans are quite exclusive is consideration of how social equity and privilege impact veganism. for example, i vehemently believe that those living in less-developed nation could be considered vegan even if they occasionally eat/use animal products due to a subsistence need. imo, the real distinction between vegan and non-vegan should be based on intent -- not personal purity. purity is a privilege.

for wealthier people in developed nations, veganism is fairly easy (e.g not very exclusive at all). nevertheless, veganism can across as extreme and even "cultic" because vegan food/product rules are often logically inconsistent. for example, many vegans are accepting of indirect animal cruelty/harm but very strict about trivial ethical issues like honey, second hand wool/fur/leather, or minor food contaminants. i believe veganism should emphasize harm/suffering reduction and de-emphasize a rules-based approach. this approach is not only more inclusive and rational but it also undermines the "algore drives an suv" criticisms often thrown at vegans.