Lord Winston accuses UK government of 'spin' over GM babies

[Blobbenstein]

to carry your analogy further CG, maybe it would be like respraying your car a different colour, and claiming that it wasn't a modification, as it didn't change the car itself. So whilst the police are looking for a red car, the bank robbers are driving a green car?

I think you legally have to tell the DVLA if you change the colour of your car.

 

[Clueless Git]

to carry your analogy further CG, maybe it would be like respraying your car a different colour, and claiming that it wasn't a modification, as it didn't change the car itself. So whilst the police are looking for a red car, the bank robbers are driving a green car?

I think you legally have to tell the DVLA if you change the colour of your car.

Hehehe, and all that, BUT!

No, a respray of a car is no more a vehicular modification than hair dye, fake tan and a pretty new frock (my usual weekend look) would consitute genetic ones.

 

[Blobbenstein]

so what do you think @Clueless Git ? is this procedure a genetic modification?

 

[Clueless Git]

so what do you think @Clueless Git ? is this procedure a genetic modification?

It is definitely changing (a modification of) genetic material.

By strict definition that cannot be anything other than a genetic modification.

 

[das_nut]

It is definitely changing (a modification of) genetic material.

By strict definition that cannot be anything other than a genetic modification.

My point is that it's not changing any of the 46 chromosomes in a human being.

It's replacing (entirely) the mitochondria, which have their own DNA, but I wouldn't consider that human genetic modification.

 

[Blobbenstein]

so they could use chimpanzee egg shells..?

All the cells will end up with the donor mitochondrial component. Would people here like to have chimp DNA in each of their cells..?

 

[Clueless Git]

My point is that it's not changing any of the 46 chromosomes in a human being.

That point seems to rely on declassifying all genetic material other than chromosones from the classification of genetic material, Das.

If DNA is genetic material then modifying DNA simply has to class as a modification of genetic material?

 

[Blobbenstein]

Maybe this Venn Diagram will help?

 

[Blobbenstein]

or insert 'cell', for 'organism'.

 

[FortyTwo]

Then you just end up getting into the debate over what defines "you" and where that line is drawn.

 

[das_nut]

That point seems to rely on declassifying all genetic material other than chromosones from the classification of genetic material, Das.

If DNA is genetic material then modifying DNA simply has to class as a modification of genetic material?

Hypothetical question then:

As recent research has shown, a baby gets her intestinal microbes from her mother - in utero, surprisingly enough.

Those microbes have DNA.

If a mother takes an antibiotic that wipes out a type of microbes, does it mean that any baby she has is genetically modified? After all, they would be missing some DNA that they'd otherwise "inherit" from their mother.

 

[Blobbenstein]

helpful microbes in the body is part of a symbiotic relationship between the microbes and the human. Is that how you see mitochondrial parts of the cell?

 

[FortyTwo]

Given the origin of mitochondria in the cell's evolutionary history, I'd say that's a decent comparison, if somewhat oversimplified.

 

[Clueless Git]

Hypothetical question then:

As recent research has shown, a baby gets her intestinal microbes from her mother - in utero, surprisingly enough.

Those microbes have DNA.

If a mother takes an antibiotic that wipes out a type of microbes, does it mean that any baby she has is genetically modified? After all, they would be missing some DNA that they'd otherwise "inherit" from their mother.

On that analogy ..

Our diet and our environment influence and change our gut flora, our micriobiomes. Washing and brushing our teeth (or not in both instances), wearing different fabrics, shaking hands with people, touching stuff .. all affect our external microbe populations also.

Equaly, in the instance of in-utero; If a mother becomes infected from an external source and does not take antibiotics then she would be allowing that external source to 'geneticaly modify' her baby anyway.

By the definition that killing/changing the microbes that live in and/or on us constitutes genetic modification then merely staying alive constitutes genetic modification.

Yes to "those microbes have DNA" but they have their DNA not our DNA.

I still think you have a point though, Das.

The matter of changing chromosones does seem to be in a different category to mitochondrial repairs/replacements.

Maybe GM is too broad a term and needs sub-categorising?

 

[Blobbenstein]

Given the origin of mitochondria in the cell's evolutionary history, I'd say that's a decent comparison, if somewhat oversimplified.

we are all kind of chimera of different DNA, from what I gather. Viruses or something.