Let's Make Veganism Less Strict

[majorbloodnok]

Thank you, @silva; just the point I was trying to make only better put.

 

[vegan89]

By not stating it's an opinion completely changes the meaning, so it would be bad writing to not differenciate between your opinion and a statement of fact.

Readers are supposed to be able to think and differentiate between statements of opinion and statements of fact without the writer specifically stating something is an opinion.

It is not considered bad writing for a writer to fail to write something like "In my opinion..." before every particular opinion they type out.

You do come across as believing your own ethics have a higher importance than others.

Most people with an opinion think or at least suspect that their particular view is correct until they encounter evidence or logical reasoning to the contrary. That's not a problem unless you are too closed-minded to investigate other points of view or give fair consideration to evidence or logic that contradicts your view.

There are too many injustices in this world to fight. To judge others based on their adhering to a common view of food will only hinder any effort to change, and will have your beliefs seen as ignorant.

Having an opinion about the ethical nature of certain behaviors in society does not make a person ignorant. Society "judges" the behavior of others within it in many cases I suspect you would agree with, which are why many actions individuals take are illegal.

Why is it fine for these other things to be illegal (i.e. "judged" by society), but not acceptable in your view for me to judge the ethics of other people's dietary habits? Your views don't seem logically consistent, because I'm guessing you think it's fine for society to "judge" others within it who do things that you presumably think are unethical... whether it's a person violating animal welfare laws by not taking adequate care of a dog, a rapist who rapes others, or a businessman who wants to dump industrial waste in the environment. The ethical nature of these people's actions are "judged" by society all the time... but you aren't complaining about that.

And not just legally judged either... but also judged from an ethical or moral standpoint.

 

[majorbloodnok]

Readers are supposed to be able to think and differentiate between statements of opinion and statements of fact without the writer specifically stating something is an opinion.

It is not considered bad writing for a writer to fail to write something like "In my opinion..." before every particular opinion they type out.

It is, however, considered a manipulative tactic to imply something to be fact when it is actually opinion, such as you did in your earlier post.

Most people with an opinion think or at least suspect that their particular view is correct until they encounter evidence or logical reasoning to the contrary. That's not a problem unless you are too closed-minded to investigate other points of view or give fair consideration to evidence or logic that contradicts your view.

I would suggest all people with an opinion believe their view is correct. It would be illogical to hold a view one thought was wrong!

However, many people allow that their set of ethical priorities is only one of many valid possibilities, and that someone else’s set may have equal validity despite differing from one’s own. If you give to a children’s charity, am I wrong for giving to a medical charity instead?

Having an opinion about the ethical nature of certain behaviors in society does not make a person ignorant.

No, but dictating that all other opinions are invalid is simplistic and, if trying to dictate to a majority, will definitely be perceived as ignorant behaviour. Change requires influence; a carrot rather than a big stick.

 

[Graeme M]

I don't think it is worth worrying about redefining veganism or making it less strict because I have come to the view that's focusing on the wrong idea. At the end of the day, veganism is about ethics. To come back to what I said earlier, I wonder if it wouldn't be better just to drop the whole "vegan" thing? About 98% of the population thinks vegans are extreme kooks and that their diet (which is all they think veganism is about) is dangerous. That doesn't help to advance the goal of preventing animal exploitation.

What if there was just the idea of veganism and those people who take it on board? No-one need bother about whether or not they even ARE vegan, rather they are free to choose what they do. Vegan advocacy would still focus on why animal eploitation is wrong and how people can make better choices and what is everyone's favourite vegan recipe and why Dr Greger is the font of all nutritional knowledge, but that's as far as it needs to go.

No vegan gate-keeping, no shaming non-vegans or not-good-enough-vegans, no moral high-ground grandstanding (even though it is the moral high-ground...). This stuff just puts people off.

We know that the proportion of the population who identifies as genuinely ethical vegan is pretty small and not really growing very much. Surely 20% of the population sort of vegan-ish is better than 2% of the population pure vegan?

I wrote about this a while back, I can't recall if I've shared that here before.

My vegan elevator pitch

“Veganism is a philosophy and way of living which seeks to exclude—as far as is possible and practicable—all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals for food, clothing or any other …

gm136.wordpress.com

I have slightly changed my thinking on this since then, but more in the sense that I am more confident about the underlying idea. I wrote about that recently too, if anyone is interested.

The Philosophy of Ethical Veganism Explained

My explanation of just what ethical veganism really is. Summary: Veganism is an ethical position, the idea that we extend moral concern to other (sentient) species. We are already vegan to other pe…

gm136.wordpress.com

 

[wildr0se2]

I thought about using the mostly vegan, or almost vegan label myself. But after thinking on it for a while I decided not to. (I may have over-analyzed it - something I sometime do. )

My thinking involves the The Vegan Society definition of Veganism. There ARE other definitions and who is to say which is the best. But I don't think it can be argued that The Vegan Society's definition is not a good one. There are also definitions for "dietary vegans". But IMHO, dietary vegans are just strict vegetarians and should just call themselves that.

The Vegan's society for an (ethical) vegan is “a philosophy and way of living which seeks to exclude—as far as is possible and practicable—all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals”

First off lets take a look at "possible and practicable". Who decides what is possible and practicable. That must be up to the individual. What is P&P for a guy living in a dorm, is not the same as the girls working in a restaurant to put themselves thru college. And its also different from the millionaire who has a chef, and that is different from the pregnant mom with 2 girls shopping in a mall.

The next words I want to spotlight is "seeks to exclude". They could have just said "excludes" but they added the "seeks to". IMHO they did that to avoid the requirement of perfection. Seeks to also implies intent. I also like the synonym "strives". So basically if you really "want to" be vegan - you are one.

I'm not watering down the meaning. its right there in the definition.

So fellow vegans, you don't need to stop calling yourself vegan and start saying, "I'm mostly vegan." You are just "vegan".

This is why I enjoy this site and not Reddit's r/vegan because I don't feel judged every time I slip up and I feel encouraged to keep trying. Reddit is famous for the "you're plant based not vegan" argument and it's very frustrating. I always worry I'm not good enough to be vegan. I saw one Reddit post where Hershey's made oat milk chocolate bars, and a handful of people were saying how shitty Hershey is as a company (which yes, they shouldn't get their cocoa from providers that exploit children) but some even claimed it wasn't vegan to buy the oat milk bars from them due to that. Like...the child slavery thing is a separate issue. And a Reddit user a while ago telling me that anyone who goes back to eating animal products was never vegan (I think I was talking about my history of slip ups and how I was starting out again)...like...I get scared to call myself vegan now.

 

[shyvas]

This is why I enjoy this site and not Reddit's r/vegan because I don't feel judged every time I slip up and I feel encouraged to keep trying. Reddit is famous for the "you're plant based not vegan" argument and it's very frustrating. I always worry I'm not good enough to be vegan. I saw one Reddit post where Hershey's made oat milk chocolate bars, and a handful of people were saying how shitty Hershey is as a company (which yes, they shouldn't get their cocoa from providers that exploit children) but some even claimed it wasn't vegan to buy the oat milk bars from them due to that. Like...the child slavery thing is a separate issue. And a Reddit user a while ago telling me that anyone who goes back to eating animal products was never vegan (I think I was talking about my history of slip ups and how I was starting out again)...like...I get scared to call myself vegan now.

The only way to be sure that the chocolate you are purchasing hasn't used child labour is to consult the following list:

Chocolate List

Chocolate LIST The list below reflects Food Empowerment Project’s (F.E.P.) most recent research on companies that make vegan products containing chocolate to find out if they source their chocolate from areas where the worst forms of child labor and/or slavery…

foodispower.org

Understanding Our Chocolate List

UNDERSTANDING FOOD EMPOWERMENT PROJECT’S CHOCOLATE LIST Food Empowerment Project (F.E.P.) publishes a list of companies that sell chocolates that we do and do not recommend. Every company on this list (recommended or not) has to make at least one vegan chocolate…

foodispower.org

 

[bgmnts]

It would be likely impossible to be 100% vegan due to the nature of our consumer products and food.

However, I make every effort to purchase necessities that are vegan made and vegan friendly, and if I know something contains things like bone or whatever, I will not use them. Even medicine I try for the vegan friendly ones first.
Just about doing the most you can isn't it?