Is Violence Ever Necessary for Animal Liberation? | Gary Y's Famous Quote

Is Gary someone with a chip on their shoulder who just uses animals to somehow get revenge on society?


eta: not that I haven't got a chip on my shoulder, myself....
 
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The Jack Donovan article is really insightful. Humans are the gods of murder - look around, it's what we do.

...though I was a little confused by Donovan's use of 'Free-Range Vegans.' Huh?

I think it was more a general group of random words he associated with a demographic he considers to be stereotypically non violent than anything meant to make sense regarding those specific groups.
 
Advocating violent methods is probably a good way to come to the attention of the government and be put on a eco-terrorist list.
 
It's disappointing because much of Gary's vegan advocating message is really great. Then this train wreck.

It's a common tactic. They draw you in with reasonable discussions, and then when they feel you're fully vested in the cause, and their version of it, they eventually reveal their true agenda...thinking that you're too far in to turn back.
 
It's a common tactic. They draw you in with reasonable discussions, and then when they feel you're fully vested in the cause, and their version of it, they eventually reveal their true agenda...thinking that you're too far in to turn back.

I do get it - when you're passionate about something like this it can be easy to slip into such depths of despair that you just want to annihilate the wrong-doers. We are the defenders of the innocent. One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter...that whole bit - but clear heads have to prevail.

He's not all that charismatic imho, so I'm not a blind follower, (most of us here are clear-minded enough to call it like it is) but I can see some people being drawn into that. Francione is another one who has minions galore, but I just can't get past much of his diatribe either.

We are in need of some true vegan warrior leaders. I have yet to find any that don't openly trash all the others.
 
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I went through an angry stage and I still feel furious at times but the long term vegans I have known/know are so mature and calm about their beliefs that I want to get to that point where I can try to encourage people to become vegan without letting the anger seep out too much.

I think there are extremists in every movement and they do influence some very easily led people but they probably alienate more people than they attract.
 
Essential to the meaningfull existence of rights is the willingness to use/sanction violence against transgressors of those rights.

People who are passionate about, say, womens right's not be raped or children's rights not to be molested do not draw the line at pamphleting rapists and child abusers

Such people may want to keep their own hands clean by not wanting to engage in violence personaly.

They will, and very passionately do, sanction a scale of violence(s) against rapists and child abusers though.

GY is no different to those people except in as much as that he has the same passion for the rights of animals.
 
I do get it - when you're passionate about something like this it can be easy to slip into such depths of despair that you just want to annihilate the wrong-doers. We are the defenders of the innocent. One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter...that whole bit - but clear heads have to prevail.

He's not all that charismatic imho, so I'm not a blind follower, (most of us here are clear-minded enough to call it like it is) but I can see some people being drawn into that. Francione is another one who has minions galore, but I just can't get past much of his diatribe either.

We are in need of some true vegan warrior leaders. I have yet to find any that don't openly trash all the others.
well the one good thing, then that gary says in this video is that you don't have to agree with any one group or activist 100% and that includes him!

i agree that gary can have conflicting messages at times. unfortunately, he is human and can contradict himself. i think his core, underlying message remains constant, however.
 
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Essential to the meaningfull existence of rights is the willingness to use/sanction violence against transgressors of those rights.

People who are passionate about, say, womens right's not be raped or children's rights not to be molested do not draw the line at pamphleting rapists and child abusers

Such people may want to keep their own hands clean by not wanting to engage in violence personaly.

They will, and very passionately do, sanction a scale of violence(s) against rapists and child abusers though.

GY is no different to those people except in as much as that he has the same passion for the rights of animals.

very interesting point.
 
We are in need of some true vegan warrior leaders. I have yet to find any that don't openly trash all the others.

i don't believe i've every trashed other vegan leaders. forgive me if i'm having a lapse of memory here.
 
i agree that gary can have conflicting messages at times. unfortunately, he is human and can contradict himself. i think his core, underlying message remains constant, however.

Yes, I am exactly afraid of that. His underlying message is not one of nonviolence.
 
Essential to the meaningfull existence of rights is the willingness to use/sanction violence against transgressors of those rights.

People who are passionate about, say, womens right's not be raped or children's rights not to be molested do not draw the line at pamphleting rapists and child abusers

Such people may want to keep their own hands clean by not wanting to engage in violence personaly.

They will, and very passionately do, sanction a scale of violence(s) against rapists and child abusers though.

GY is no different to those people except in as much as that he has the same passion for the rights of animals.

CG, this is an interesting post, and it is well in line with you argument (that I fully agree with) that ethically, there is not much difference between eating animal products and raping or murdering humans. However, there are differences.

The first difference, however, is in society's perception of the two - while one is clearly condemned, the other one is still seen as totally acceptable in virtually any country and by about 95 % of the human population. While we can more or less rely on society's punishing people who violate the rights of humans, we can unfortunately also rely on the fact that if we try to use force to stop the violation of animal rights, society will come down hard on us, and that this will even have damaging effects to the peaceful furthering of the belief that animals should get rights at one point in time.

The second difference, however, is also the one between relying on society and taking the rights into our own hands. Yes, most people will not "draw the line on pamphleting against rapists and child abusers", as you eloquently (and also polemically, of course) write.

However, they also should most likely not take the law into their own hands (unless in an emergency, e.g. if they should happen to encounter an attempted rape), but rather let the proper authorities take care of it. There are enough stories of people suspected of a wrongdoing (rightfully or not) who became victims of vigilante justice by enraged fellow citizens.