Question How Vegans Think

If you don't like the question, why bother to comment? Also, if you do want to comment on my threads, please do so politely. There is no need to call my questions ********.

Also, if people even slightly questioning your world views makes you get emotional, what are you doing on the internet?

Also, why did you feel the need to post three posts telling me I'm trolling. I think the message was clear in the first two.
 
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The trouble with this is firstly that is going to be annoying hassle for the waiters, who what 8 or 9 times out of 10 won't even know the answer (maybe less if you eat at good restaurants in developed countries) and also will make you the awkward, embarrassing one to your friends and family.

Jaime, I understand your point. Yes, it happens to me most of the time that waiters don't know much about the food they are serving day in and day out, and say that they have to ask the chef first. (A notable exception to that rule was a Syrian restaurant in Germany, where the waiter recited from memory every ingredient that goes into their dishes. I was quite impressed with that, but it is the exception, not the rule) And yes, it can be embarassing the first time. Nevertheless, in that case typically everybody else orders what they want and their orders are relayed to the kitchen, and then the waiter comes back and tells me about the dish I want to order. So nobody really has to wait.

I agree, spaghetti should be vegan (so I also normally don't ask whether there is egg in the spaghetti, but make sure that the waiter understands that I do not want any parmesan to go with it).

But I do ask about Pizza, and unfortunately, I have to say that most of the big chains add egg and/or dairy to the pizza dough (another thing that would be considered an atrocity in Italy, but well, what can you do?), so I order the spaghetti. At Domino's Pizza (unfortunately one of my kids favourites), I can not even get spaghetti with tomato sauce, as they claim to only have meat-based sauce and those dishes are ready-to-warm:confused:

I mentioned earlier that I had spaghetti with tomato sauce (hold the cheese) 4 times in 4 days on a business trip to Mexico, did I not? Of course, that was partially due to our hosts selecting the restaurants and - as always in such business trips unfortunately - the main deciding point was how large are the steaks that they serve :( If I had been on my own, I would, e.g. have checked www.happycow.net to find out if there are any vegan-friendly places in the area.

Anyway, when I know I do have a big business lunch with colleagues upcoming and know about it in time, I would typically call the restaurant beforehand and ask them if they do have any vegan options if you want to visit them. Typically, they are much more accommodating if you ask before, and you can then refer to that information once you are there then.

As you say you have a fair command of Spanish, I assume you are an expat in Chile - so you should likely get some more leeway for your strange ways :D My local colleagues here in Malaysia have learned about my peculiar habits, so by now, when they look up a restaurant for a company dinner, they will also ask for vegan options when making the reservation.

But just don't think too much about it and don't over-analyze it - simply try it out!

Best regards,
Andy
 
Well, to be sure - these types of questions do in fact, stir up an emotional response in me. Which is: what kind of ******** question is that? Plants have feelings and why not eat road-kill arguments are predominantly used by people who have no intention of going vegan and just want to stir **** up.

Dedalus, I disagree with you.

We are faced with this kind of question often and know its answer, so it might sound ridiculous to us.

However, a person who has been raised on the normal carnist philosophy, and so far not occupied him/herself with vegetarianism and veganism, and hears these arguments for the first time, will often truly want an answer to this kind of question. Do not forget the amount of disinformation that is circulated in online media. I sometimes get asked by well-meaning colleagues about plant feelings, because they have read about it somewhere and the original scientific articles (that simply stated that some plants have developed mechanisms to cope with parasites, but certainly not any kind of awareness) normally do get awfully distorted when repeated (or more precisely: cherry-picked) in mainstream media.
 
Dedalus, I disagree with you.

We are faced with this kind of question often and know its answer, so it might sound ridiculous to us.

However, a person who has been raised on the normal carnist philosophy, and so far not occupied him/herself with vegetarianism and veganism, and hears these arguments for the first time, will often truly want an answer to this kind of question. Do not forget the amount of disinformation that is circulated in online media. I sometimes get asked by well-meaning colleagues about plant feelings, because they have read about it somewhere and the original scientific articles (that simply stated that some plants have developed mechanisms to cope with parasites, but certainly not any kind of awareness) normally do get awfully distorted when repeated (or more precisely: cherry-picked) in mainstream media.

I embraced the carnist philosophy for the majority of my adult life. As I was transitioning to a vegan lifestyle, not once did I entertain this line of thinking. Then again, after I became educated about the plight of animals, I wasn't looking for reasons to eat meat anymore.
 
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Yes, good idea to call the restaurant in advance where possible, I'll try and remember that. Of course, there will still be occasions when it will be trickier, such as when you are with a large group of people wandering down a street picking a restaurant on a spur of the moment walk by. I think mid to high end restaurants is going to be easier. Very basic establishments in developing countries, stalls etc would be a little trickier.
 
Here's what I'm thinking at the moment.

Meat/fish - already reduced by quite a bit, will cut further to about once a week. Will do some research on B12, protein etc etc and try and cut to zero within a few weeks or months.

Dairy - have already stopped eating things that are purely dairy. E.g. glass of milk, slice of cheese. Stuff that contains dairy such as pizza with cheese on will carry on eating for now while I do some research about cutting dairy out from a health perspective and adjust myself in more slowly.

Not going to worry about cakes or dough with eggs in for now. Maybe one day.

Will try and learn more about non-food animal products as well at some point.

However, will read more about vegan diets looking at articles online. Will buy at least one book that covers things like vegan lifestyle, how to go vegan, good vegan recipes (I already got one which is Scot Jurek's), and what products do and don't contain animal products and how to find out (e.g. if you are shopping for shampoo, what is a good resource to know which are doing animal testing or using animal products).

I am also half way through a series of health check ups. I had the idea of doing a comprehensive record of various health indicators before changing my diet and then doing it again later.

I told a doctor I was thinking of going vegetarian and he suggested fish once a week and mentioned Omega-13.
 
........A few other questions that don't really matter much in practice, but I am kind of curious about:

If you think it's morally wrong to eat meat, what about leftovers from someone else's plate that are going in the bin anyway? Seems to be OK to me?

Another win is if I happened to be out driving and come across a dead animal just hit by another car, would it be morally wrong to eat it?
I would say that eating these things doesn't add to the number of animals who are killed, so this would be at least less morally objectionable than the usual meat eating. But when I find myself in such a situation, I give the nonvegan food to a human or animal who will be able to use it.

A somewhat similar situation: a local supermarket in my area has a rather good bakery, and sometimes they make too much of something; it gets put on the reduced-price, last-date-of-sale cart. I sometimes buy nonvegan baked goods from that cart if: 1) it's at the end of the day, there is a lot of it, and I'm certain it will get thrown out if I don't buy it; and 2) it's not spoiled. One thing though: I wouldn't do this with meat- although again, if it were safe to eat, I might purchase it for a carnivorous pet... so I'm not sure how much I really believe my reasoning.

Do you think if I decide to go 95% vegan but make some exceptions (eat a pizza with regular cheese when I feel like it, eat my kids's leftover chicken nugget, take the odd piece of meat at a family event so the host doesn't feel bad etc) do you think I would be welcomed onto the main vegan forum on here, and vegan communities in real life. Or is it a bit of an all or nothing thing? Could I consider myself a vegan if I did that?
I tried that when I was just starting to cut down on my milk and egg consumption. The truth is, it wasn't me at my best and I was just making an excuse to eat nonvegan food when I really wanted it.

On the other hand, I sometimes think the all-or-nothing approach doesn't work for some people- at least not always. I know of people who sort of snapped and just gave up on veganism or vegetarianism altogether, although I think most people stay with it.

ETA: About Vitamin B-12: I just take a supplement.
 
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Great to hear about your plans :)

I told a doctor I was thinking of going vegetarian and he suggested fish once a week and mentioned Omega-13.

I take walnuts for omega 3, there are also other good plant sources.
Also, look at the articles, it's actually the ratio of Omega-3 to Omega-6 oils that you consume that is important.
Take a look at Omega-3 and 14 Best Vegan Sources of Omega 3 - PlenteousVeg

Also, it makes sense to bear in mind that doctors typically receive only rather little nutritional training, during their studies (which might have been 25 years ago). They are not necessarily the best informed people on nutrition, unless they are interested in it and actively pursue additional learning opportunities.
 
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Thanks Tom. There are some grey areas. In the case of the cut price dairy, the company is still making money from it and the more they see gets thrown away the more they may cut future production, So, it's hard to say for sure, but buying the cut price product may slightly support future use of animals to produce product.

Andy, funny you should mention the Omega 3/6 ratio. I was just reading about this literally last night in the Omnivore's Dilemna by Michael Pollan. .

Yes, I agree with your point about doctors. They are often generalists rather than specialists, and rarely like to admit ignorance, so it's fair to take their opinion on such a question as one you might combine with some other opinions and online research.
 
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I think about omega-3s too. I was surprised that they didn't mention canola oil.

ETA: the list of 14 vegan omega-3 sources didn't mention canola, but the other one did.
 
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I don't bother with omega oils. Only for a while did I toy with taking linseed capsules....but in all the decades of being a veg mainly I didn't bother....I don't think it matters...I'll probably die of type 2 diabetes anyway.
 
I try to avoid foods with a high omega-6 content, and use liberal amounts of canola oil (called rapeseed oil in Europe) on salads.
 
Here's what I'm thinking at the moment.

Meat/fish - already reduced by quite a bit, will cut further to about once a week. Will do some research on B12, protein etc etc and try and cut to zero within a few weeks or months.

Dairy - have already stopped eating things that are purely dairy. E.g. glass of milk, slice of cheese. Stuff that contains dairy such as pizza with cheese on will carry on eating for now while I do some research about cutting dairy out from a health perspective and adjust myself in more slowly.

Not going to worry about cakes or dough with eggs in for now. Maybe one day.

Will try and learn more about non-food animal products as well at some point.

However, will read more about vegan diets looking at articles online. Will buy at least one book that covers things like vegan lifestyle, how to go vegan, good vegan recipes (I already got one which is Scot Jurek's), and what products do and don't contain animal products and how to find out (e.g. if you are shopping for shampoo, what is a good resource to know which are doing animal testing or using animal products).

I am also half way through a series of health check ups. I had the idea of doing a comprehensive record of various health indicators before changing my diet and then doing it again later.

I told a doctor I was thinking of going vegetarian and he suggested fish once a week and mentioned Omega-13.

A slow transition is a wise move, in my opinion. While I admire the willpower and strength of those who go vegan immediately, I can't imagine doing it that way. I was a lacto-ovo vegetarian for 6-7 years before I went vegan, and during that time, I built a pretty good repertoire of vegan recipes that I could rely on. Your changes will be more sustainable if they are deliberate and well-thought-out.
 
I see your point but on the other hand I've now decided it's morally wrong to eat animals (at least in 99% of real cases) and therefore I don't want to carry on doing something that I think is wrong for that long of a transition period. So, I think I will transition fairly fast (weeks). I am reading about the ways to get Vitamin B12, Omega-3, Calcium etc and planning a diet. Next step I need to find out where to source things local to me and connect with a few vegans locally. I am not much of a cook (my idea of cooking has been pasta with cheese or slide a tray or burgers of chips in the oven) but I am willing to put up with slightly more boring food during the initial stages.
 
I see your point but on the other hand I've now decided it's morally wrong to eat animals (at least in 99% of real cases) and therefore I don't want to carry on doing something that I think is wrong for that long of a transition period. So, I think I will transition fairly fast (weeks). I am reading about the ways to get Vitamin B12, Omega-3, Calcium etc and planning a diet. Next step I need to find out where to source things local to me and connect with a few vegans locally. I am not much of a cook (my idea of cooking has been pasta with cheese or slide a tray or burgers of chips in the oven) but I am willing to put up with slightly more boring food during the initial stages.
Great stuff! The only thing is, your life will be so much easier, delicious, and more money left in your pocket if you learn to cook. Vegan cooking is easy. Learn some basic knife skills (youtube), and cooking prep is quick and easy. :)
 
I like eating (but I find cooking boring) so I just stick to easy recipes. I have used a few from the Minimalist Baker as she uses very straightforward recipes with 10 ingredients or less. Entree Archives - Minimalist Baker

I have noticed that you like eating Molls !!!! Same here.However I do like to cook but I don't have much time atm. So, I like easy, straightforward recipes that don't need to many complicated ingredients and utensils.
I must say that I also love Dana's blog and am considering to buy her book which is coming out on the 26 th April. It is cheaper to order it on Amazon com and not co uk.

I hardly ever buy books nowadays as I am on a budget and have no more room for cookery books.

Favourite Food Blogs
 
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Excellent, Jamie!

Once you have some recipes that really work for you, find out which ones freeze well. Then you can make extra, freeze what you're not going to eat soon, and thaw out the extra portions later. If you don't like cooking, this saves a lot of time and bother.