Dark thoughts?

[Lou]

So in this week's news, we hear the President of the US calling undocumented immigrants "animals". We see their children kept in cages.

As an ethical vegan, this makes my head spin.

Isaac Bashevis Singer compared animal livestock production to the Holocaust. A lot of people criticized him for this. Probably more would have if he hadn't been a Holocaust survivor himself. Some of his most famous quotes have to do with how mercy and justice cannot survive in a meat-eating culture. *

But this present day racism is it just of an extension of speciesism or have we turned a corner? Most Americans are acclimated to treating animals inhumanely. But what happens to our society when we treat people inhumanely? I'm hoping that perhaps there will be some kind of backlash.

Anyway, I'm hoping to hear some points of view. I have not been able to get my own head around this so I'm hoping for something to hang on to.

*“As long as people will shed the blood of innocent creatures there can be no peace, no liberty, no harmony between people. Slaughter and justice cannot dwell together.”
― Isaac Bashevis Singer

 

[Kellyr]

This entire administration has stressed me out. The lack of human compassion is mind-blowing.

I kind of feel like it's opposite, though - the more compassion we are willing to extend to our fellow humans, I think the more we find ourselves willing and wanting to be compassionate to other species, as well.

Although I've heard plenty militant vegans wishing death on all humans, too, and that is not a step in a good direction, either.

 

[Forest Nymph]

I have seen for years that the biggest problem in the West is the liberal tendency towards moral relativism to the point of stupidity.

I myself am a leftist, called "liberal" by some, but to that end have observed my general voting party as a bunch of overly permissive, historically illiterate nitwits who apparently are afraid to admit defeat on the trend towards laissez faire parenting in the 70s.

What I'm trying to say, if it isnt clear, the liberal values we take for granted - the US constitution, the end of slavery, women voting, and equal rights in general - were won by hard fighting by strong, brave, crafty, principled, and occasionally aggressive or violent people.

That anyone thinks we can teach people climate science by being doormats to Trump voters, that we can overcome white supremacists by holding hands and singing kumbya, or that we can achieve vegan world by rewarding meat eaters with sex or cheerful "tolerances" of their preferences is the downfall of Western civilization.

"Tolerance and apathy are the last values of a dying society." - Aristotle

 

[Lou]

"Tolerance and apathy are the last values of a dying society." - Aristotle

wow. you actually made me feel worse.

I think Aristotle meant that a society that does not care about bad things and tolerates bad things - that is the beginning of the end. I care and don't tolerate the bad things. Its these bad things that are being promoted that are driving me crazy.

some people in this society have gone past tolerance and apathy and into promotion and endorsement of racism.

Although, feel much better today. Seems like a lot of people are just as upset with Trump's racism as I am.

 

[Forest Nymph]

wow. you actually made me feel worse.

I think Aristotle meant that a society that does not care about bad things and tolerates bad things - that is the beginning of the end. I care and don't tolerate the bad things. Its these bad things that are being promoted that are driving me crazy.

some people in this society have gone past tolerance and apathy and into promotion and endorsement of racism.

Although, feel much better today. Seems like a lot of people are just as upset with Trump's racism as I am.

Yes I know what Aristotle means I thought that would be clear from the content of my post. I blame the complacent weak left for allowing this to happen. I saw it coming for years before Trump actually took office. The American liberal attitude towards the environment is phony and damn near useless (because it might also require liberals to change their consumer habits) and its stunning how many middle class whites on the left downplay the horrific racism happening because "we should try to make peace with Trump voters."

Everyone is spoiled, entitled and marginally insane in this country. Then I come on vegan forums and some vegans harping about how we should "tolerate" meat eaters - even those educated enough and financially stable enough to at least be vegetarian.

This administration is terrible but its more like a outward symptom of a deeper Western sickness.

Also my remarks were not directed at you. I see that you care, the quote was meant to describe the current culture of the US. Starting with Gen X. That's why I mentioned the failed laissez faire parenting of the 70s. A bunch of delusional, TV obsessed comfortable middle class people act like everything can be "tolerated" away because reality makes them too uncomfortable. Notice that Kurt Cobain said "kill your TV" before ending his life. Wisest advice given in my childhood.

 

[veganDreama]

humans are animals so when humans are violated it's bad too. Worse in a way because if we can't treat our own species right what hope have we of treating any others right.