Cross Contamination? Is this an issue for you?

Is Cross Contamination an issue for you

  • Yes

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  • No

    Votes: 6 50.0%

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Lou

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Actually, cross contamination can give you food poisoning. All any food scientist, or just Google it. That said, most incidences of food poisoning occur in the home, not in restaurants.
That's true. And I don't have any studies or stats to cite but I'm pretty sure that the cross-contamination that causes food poisoning or other sicknesses in the home usually involves chickens and cutting boards.

It's just that chickens are often contaminated. Cooking kills the bacteria. But when you cut raw chicken on a surface that surface gets contaminated. Then if the next food on the cutting board is not going to be cooked → Food poisoning.

In restaurants, surfaces are disinfected daily. At home, not so much. And the grooves made by knives in a wooden cutting board are great places for bacteria to lurk and ambush the unsuspecting.

@ThaiVegan is exaggerating when she says "a few tiny molecules". But foodborne illness can be caused by bacteria that are literally microscopic. Keep in mind that the human body is pretty good at fighting off bacteria. So that is why we don't have a big line at the emergency room. but it depends on the size of the dose, the species of bacteria and the size and health of the patient.
 

Ger

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The thing that I don't like about fake meat burgers being fried on the same grill as the real meat burgers is that the real ones can easily transfer what they're made of onto the fake ones. When that happens, a vegan could easily develop a taste for real meat without knowing it. As some of you may already know, I recently stumbled and started eating fish after living a strict vegan lifestyle for about ten years. Although I've since stopped eating fish, I initially found it rather difficult to do so. You see, when I was eating fish, it got so that I actually liked the taste of them, especially tuna.
 

Emma JC

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The thing that I don't like about fake meat burgers being fried on the same grill as the real meat burgers is that the real ones can easily transfer what they're made of onto the fake ones. When that happens, a vegan could easily develop a taste for real meat without knowing it. As some of you may already know, I recently stumbled and started eating fish after living a strict vegan lifestyle for about ten years. Although I've since stopped eating fish, I initially found it rather difficult to do so. You see, when I was eating fish, it got so that I actually liked the taste of them, especially tuna.
I have a question for you @Ger - when you were eating the fish did you season it all? put spices, etc? or did you eat it plain?

In my opinion, meat, fish etc really doesn't have any kind of appealing taste without the seasoning and the sauces and the brining and the marinading.

So cross contamination may help you develop a taste for BBQ sauce or salt etc but it is unlikely you would wish to eat unflavored meats.

That is what I love so much about eating this way is that I get to have so many amazing flavours on beans or tofu or pastas or rice, potatoes etc without having to eat any animal flesh.

Emma JC
 

Ger

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I have a question for you @Ger - when you were eating the fish did you season it all? put spices, etc? or did you eat it plain?

In my opinion, meat, fish etc really doesn't have any kind of appealing taste without the seasoning and the sauces and the brining and the marinading.

So cross contamination may help you develop a taste for BBQ sauce or salt etc but it is unlikely you would wish to eat unflavored meats.

That is what I love so much about eating this way is that I get to have so many amazing flavours on beans or tofu or pastas or rice, potatoes etc without having to eat any animal flesh.

Emma JC

That's a good point, Emma JC. I liked the Albacore tuna that comes in a tin can best though. The kind that I bought was just packed in low sodium water so I don't think that was the case for me. I mean, if I liked the little bit of salt that comes with that particular type of tuna, then I wouldn't really need to eat fish to get that, I don't think.
 
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Emma JC

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That's a good point, Emma JC. I liked the Albacore tuna that comes in a tin can best though. The kind that I bought was just packed in low sodium water so I don't think that was the case for me. I mean, if I liked the little bit of salt that comes with that particular type of tuna, then I wouldn't really need to eat fish to get that, I don't think.
Salt is powerful on the addiction scale and although it may have contributed to the good taste it is not everything.

So did you eat it plain from the can? did you put it on a salad? in a sandwich with other items?

I made chick pea tuna salad sandwich mix for a road trip we did last week and it turned out very well and was tasty. It did have lots of spices and pickles and mustard and some tahini. It would have been very boring to put just chick peas in a sandwich no matter how much I love them.

Emma JC
 

Lou

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@Ger
I don't think Impossible burgers getting cooked on a BK grill is going to be an issue for many vegans. And IMHO the flavor of beef is already part of the Impossible Whopper's appeal. That is why it appeals to Carnists. If anything the beef flavor is a turn off to many vegans.

The taste thing is THE driving force of all these fake meats. Many long term vegans find the taste of beef to be a turn off. The people who like the taste of beef are the carnists and the transitioning or new vegans. And the carnists may be willing to spend the extra buck on an Impossible Burger for good reasons too.

And good news for you Ger, there is a company that makes fake tuna. Good Catch. It's already available at whole foods. I haven't tried it yet but I plan too. I've heard only good things about it.
 

Lou

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Salt is powerful on the addiction scale and although it may have contributed to the good taste it is not everything.

So did you eat it plain from the can? did you put it on a salad? in a sandwich with other items?

I made chick pea tuna salad sandwich mix for a road trip we did last week and it turned out very well and was tasty. It did have lots of spices and pickles and mustard and some tahini. It would have been very boring to put just chick peas in a sandwich no matter how much I love them.

Emma JC
Yeah. When i made tuna fish salad it would have to have lots of mayo, celery, celery salt, and pickle relish. I haven't had tuna in so long... but I don't think it tastes that good plain.
 
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Ger

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Salt is powerful on the addiction scale and although it may have contributed to the good taste it is not everything.

So did you eat it plain from the can? did you put it on a salad? in a sandwich with other items?

Emma JC
I usually just ate it spread on a slice of my wife's home-made bread. Nowadays, I just spread peanut butter on the bread instead.
 
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VeggieTerrian

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If things are being cooked to proper internal temperatures actual cross-contamination shouldn't happen.
 

Lou

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If things are being cooked to proper internal temperatures actual cross-contamination shouldn't happen.
Initially, we were talking about the cross-contamination that bothers some people when Impossible Whoppers are cooked on the same grill as beef whoppers. So cooking temps are not a factor.

We did take a quick jaunt into the world of food poisoning. Properly cooking your food does solve that problem most of the time. Again I will have to admit I don't have any stats or studies to back up this claim, but I think a hazard involves cutting boards. You have some contaminated chicken, which you cut up on the cutting board. you might properly cook the chicken but now the cutting board harbors bacteria. Then you cut up some vegetables for your salad. You don't cook salad. So now your salad has been "cross-contaminated".

Luckily for vegans (and even vegetarians), we don't have as much to worry about because we don't cut up meat.

But thanks to crappy agricultural practices, sometimes our vegetables come "pre-contaminated".

And now I'm feeling guilty of not even doing some cursory research. So i did some.

This site recommends having two cutting boards. One for meat and one for veggies


Which sort of reminds me of a type of cross-contamination that we haven't mentioned, yet. Staying kosher. My Bubbe had two sets of Everything. One for dairy and one for meat. For a second I thought maybe these kosher laws had some scientific basis but then I remembered that you could prepare veggies with either set of utensils.
 

Forest Nymph

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Not in restaurants if it involves things like making french fries or whatever. On the other hand I've set limits with roommates about chopping animal flesh on my boards or cooking animals in my pans. I'm not as offended by vegetarians, it's cooking real animals that upsets me greatly. I'm glad I maneuvered a situation where this is no longer in my home.

My vegan friend also has a sister who is vegan who won't tolerate cross contamination. The sister also has a history of anorexia while my friend doesn't. Honestly sometimes the cross contamination thing can mean literally not eating which I'm not sure is okay. I think basic nutrition and medicine is acceptable to still be vegan. What use are you to animals if you're dead.
 

Forest Nymph

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Initially, we were talking about the cross-contamination that bothers some people when Impossible Whoppers are cooked on the same grill as beef whoppers. So cooking temps are not a factor.

We did take a quick jaunt into the world of food poisoning. Properly cooking your food does solve that problem most of the time. Again I will have to admit I don't have any stats or studies to back up this claim, but I think a hazard involves cutting boards. You have some contaminated chicken, which you cut up on the cutting board. you might properly cook the chicken but now the cutting board harbors bacteria. Then you cut up some vegetables for your salad. You don't cook salad. So now your salad has been "cross-contaminated".

Luckily for vegans (and even vegetarians), we don't have as much to worry about because we don't cut up meat.

But thanks to crappy agricultural practices, sometimes our vegetables come "pre-contaminated".

And now I'm feeling guilty of not even doing some cursory research. So i did some.

This site recommends having two cutting boards. One for meat and one for veggies


Which sort of reminds me of a type of cross-contamination that we haven't mentioned, yet. Staying kosher. My Bubbe had two sets of Everything. One for dairy and one for meat. For a second I thought maybe these kosher laws had some scientific basis but then I remembered that you could prepare veggies with either set of utensils.
I still think Kashrut is "early" science.
 

Lou

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I still think Kashrut is "early" science.
Could be. Certainly, early people might have associated pork with trichinosis. Shellfish with hepatitis. But I can't see any connection with milk and meat.
 
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Forest Nymph

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Could be. Certainly, early people might have associated pork with trichinosis. Shellfish with hepatitis. But I can't see any connection with milk and meat.
Besides animal rights? A baby cooked in his mother's milk?
 

Lou

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Besides animal rights? A baby cooked in his mother's milk?
"The Torah says: "You may not cook a young animal in the milk of its mother" (Ex.23:19). From this, it is derived that milk and meat products may not be mixed together. Not only may they not be cooked together, but they may not be served together on the same table and surely not eaten at the same time. This rule is scrupulously upheld in observant Jewish households, even in the handling of utensils, which are carefully separated into “fleishig” (meat) and “milchig” (dairy) and separately labeled. By strict observance of these laws, they become an everyday habit. After meat meals, one must wait one, three, or six hours – depending on one’s custom - before eating dairy. After dairy consumption, no interval is required before meat may be eaten."

- http://www.koshercertification.org.uk/whatdoe.html

And how is this "early science" or even "animal rights? "
Kosher Jews still eat meat and dairy - just not at the same time.

Huh. No wonder Veganism is popular in Israel. A Kosher vegan has like 42 fewer things to worry about. :)
 
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Forest Nymph

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"The Torah says: "You may not cook a young animal in the milk of its mother" (Ex.23:19). From this, it is derived that milk and meat products may not be mixed together. Not only may they not be cooked together, but they may not be served together on the same table and surely not eaten at the same time. This rule is scrupulously upheld in observant Jewish households, even in the handling of utensils, which are carefully separated into “fleishig” (meat) and “milchig” (dairy) and separately labeled. By strict observance of these laws, they become an everyday habit. After meat meals, one must wait one, three, or six hours – depending on one’s custom - before eating dairy. After dairy consumption, no interval is required before meat may be eaten."

- http://www.koshercertification.org.uk/whatdoe.html

And how is this "early science" or even "animal rights? "
Kosher Jews still eat meat and dairy - just not at the same time.

Huh. No wonder Veganism is popular in Israel. A Kosher vegan has like 42 fewer things to worry about. :)
How is it not animal rights? Forgive me but an older Jewish vegetarian friend and I met eye to eye quite solidly. Maybe your family experience was different but I rejoiced in her friendship, because we were able to discuss the implications of Enoch, Noah, Daniel, Isaiah, and even Jesus being incorrectly labeled as a fish eater, but rather a kelp eater who stopped fishing and made "fishers of men "

One of my best young friends in LA was a conservative Orthodox Jewish girl who observed a perfectly ecological Shabbat, in the Israeli tradition without using fossil fuels, animals, lower class workers, or money.

I find Orthodox Judaism minus some racist or sexist conceits to be more compatible with animal rights, ecology and other relevant social concerns than most religions.

I think Israeli people are more likely to be vegan because they were raised with a more godly understanding of nature.

It depends on how you were raised, but I met plenty of Jews in LA who made animal rights and environmental science seem downright Biblical.
 

Lou

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Eating a beef sandwich is kosher.
Eating a cheese sandwich is kosher.
This is animal rights?
 
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Forest Nymph

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Eating a beef sandwich is kosher.
Eating a cheese sandwich is kosher.
This is animal rights?
Welp if you look at it simplistically with hatred for organized religion and don't examine the original texts with their original intent outside of modern dogma.

I own a book called The Animals' Lawsuit Against Humanity. It was written by 10th century Muslims, and uses the Koran/Torah/Old Testament as quotes within the text, It was translated into Hebrew and used by Jewish scholars and rabbis long before it was ever translated into English (in the 20th century) for modern Western agnostics or atheists to appreciate.

Also, the Books of Enoch are considered Jewish books of wisdom although they aren't accepted in the "official canon." The Books of Enoch (Noah's grandfather) state that men were taught to torment, enslave and consume non-human animals by demons, not granted by G-d.

There are numerous Israeli vegans who argue that kosher is an antiquated approach to animal rights and that it's only natural that the country of Israel is home to so many vegans in the 21st century.

All traces of animal rights before the 19th century are connected to religion, whether you like it or not. It was mainly spiritual people who perceived animal cruelty and greed for their products to be a human sin/fault. That includes many Native American tribes.
 

Lou

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Well if you look at it simplistically with hatred for organized religion and don't examine the original texts with their original intent outside of modern dogma.
Well if you look at it with one eye closed, squint a lot, and hold your head tilted, you can maybe see Kosher laws pertaining to meat and dairy as sensical.

But you are right, I have no respect for organized religion or it's rules and regulations. Well, I have no issues with the Ten Commandments or the Golden Rule. but after that, it pretty much just ends up as cherry-picking.