Aliens

[Clueless Git]

'Chariots of the Gods' and 'The Book of Enoch' both make interesting reading.

 

[FortyTwo]

'Chariots of the Gods' and 'The Book of Enoch' both make interesting reading.

Ancient Astronauts are absolute crap though.

Well, I mean, they might not be. There's the slim chance it's real. But it's more far-fetched to believe they're real than not, and if you can plausibly go for the thing that's less far-fetched - and we can - then you should always do that.

 

[Second Summer]

Ancient Astronauts are absolute crap though.

Well, I mean, they might not be. There's the slim chance it's real. But it's more far-fetched to believe they're real than not, and if you can plausibly go for the thing that's less far-fetched - and we can - then you should always do that.

Yes, that sounds like the principle known as "Occam's razor". But hypotheses involving aliens are more entertaining!

 

[FortyTwo]

Yes, that sounds like the principle known as "Occam's razor". But hypotheses involving aliens are more entertaining!

I was trying to describe Occam's Razor without actually saying it, because I feel like I fall back on that way too much.

And yes, I suppose they are. But we do have to remember the difference between what would've been cool, and what probably really happened.

It would've been cool if George Washington rode a land shark into battle.

In fact, I'm going to write a book about this now.

 

[Blobbenstein]

They're out there in the Oort Cloud......I have been take their huge cities(I made that up), they watch via small scout ships.

Well I think that it is highly probably that robot ships have spread over the galaxy.

 

[Second Summer]

As for visits to Earth by extraterrestrials in ancient times, there is this: Considering the vast distances and apparent scarcity of intelligent life in the universe, what is the likelihood of the Earth being visited by extraterrestrials now compared to any time in Earth's past? Exactly, it's much more likely we were visited in the past than right now. Therefore, "Ancient Astronauts" is maybe not such a bad concept after all.

 

[FortyTwo]

As for visits to Earth by extraterrestrials in ancient times, there is this: Considering the vast distances and apparent scarcity of intelligent life in the universe, what is the likelihood of the Earth being visited by extraterrestrials now compared to any time in Earth's past? Exactly, it's much more likely we were visited in the past than right now. Therefore, "Ancient Astronauts" is maybe not such a bad concept after all.

But it's more likely than either of those that we're not being visited at all.

 

[Blobbenstein]

I think there is problem with talking about probabilities when dealing with the unknown......how can one say something is more or less likely, when one doesn't know a key part of the model? You can say getting 5 heads, on tossing a coin, is less likely than getting a bunch of heads and tails, but aliens? We just don't know, do we?

 

[Second Summer]

I think there is problem with talking about probabilities when dealing with the unknown......how can one say something is more or less likely, when one doesn't know a key part of the model? You can say getting 5 heads, on tossing a coin, is less likely than getting a bunch of heads and tails, but aliens? We just don't know, do we?

I agree, but I still think my statement is reasonable. 42 on the other hand is making more assumptions.

 

[FortyTwo]

I agree, but I still think my statement is reasonable. 42 on the other hand is making more assumptions.

What assumption is being made?

To acknowledge the possibility that alien civilizations are visiting us, or have visited us in the past, you have to acknowledge a lot of different possibilities, and for it to be true they have to all align a certain way.

It's true that you can't prove it either way, but based on what we know about physics, imagining a fairly capable interstellar race is a stretch, and imagining them coming to Earth is even more of a stretch. They have to first detect us, then have a reason to come here, then actually do it, which regardless of how advanced you are may take some time.

There's also the fact that our universe simply might not be old enough to support civilizations significantly more advanced than ourselves - although I think, probabilistically, there has to be at least one civilization out there that got everything right on the first try and has become capable enough to do the things we're stuck trying to get to.

There's a possibility, but the burden of proof is on the side claiming that aliens did visit - there's currently no evidence indicating that they did, so factoring them into the equation relies on an unfounded guess centered on our own, somewhat narcissistic cultural concepts, most of which are themselves pseudo-science.

 

[Blobbenstein]

but based on what we know about physics

which is where you make an assumption. Science is just a boundary between what we know(or have a good understanding of and evidence) and the unknown......we have no idea of what technology may be possible to enable a species to spread across the galaxy, so we can't really assign any degree of probability to whether they have done, or not.

We do know that we are here, so it is fair to say that there probably are other intelligent species out there, and that maybe the Universe is teeming with intelligent ETs.

 

[Blobbenstein]

someone once told me that science is like a bubble....as we gain in understanding, the bubble and its surface enlarges, the surface between what we understand and the unknown. So the more we find out, the more we are aware of what we don't know.

I think at least the galaxy could be teeming with AI Von Neumann probes....
I thought of a matrix VN probe, where people live in a VR world in transit.

 

[FortyTwo]

which is where you make an assumption. Science is just a boundary between what we know(or have a good understanding of and evidence) and the unknown......we have no idea of what technology may be possible to enable a species to spread across the galaxy, so we can't really assign any degree of probability to whether they have done, or not.

We do know that we are here, so it is fair to say that there probably are other intelligent species out there, and that maybe the Universe is teeming with intelligent ETs.

Oh, absolutely! I agree with you 100%. We don't know everything, not even close, and we probably never will.

That still doesn't mean we can just make unfounded assumptions about the universe.

What we have to go off of at any given moment is what we have right now. Anything more is assumption, and any less is ignorance.

So, I can acknowledge that there's a chance of an interstellar civilization having visited us in the past, while still pointing out that, based on what we know right now about how the universe works, it's very unlikely. Maybe the secret to interstellar travel is actually really simple. Maybe there are a lot of alien species cruising around our universe - even in our immediate neighborhood - and they simply haven't contacted us for whatever reason. Maybe they have contacted us, and buried somewhere in the bowels of conspiracy history is a startling truth.

But until the evidence for those things surfaces, if it ever does, we can't treat these as being on equal footing with what our instruments tell us - no one seems to be there, and if they're out there, we certainly haven't found them yet.

Note that I very much do believe we live in a universe teeming with intelligent life.

 

[Blobbenstein]

well, maybe having fossil fuels is the exception, I sometimes wonder......no FF and itprob wouldn't matter hw intelligent a species was, in terms of getting into space.

I do worry that interstellar travel may not be realistic, due to all the stuff that a ship could crash into....but if you sent out enough von Neumann probes...some should get through..perhaps.

 

[FortyTwo]

well, maybe having fossil fuels is the exception, I sometimes wonder......no FF and itprob wouldn't matter hw intelligent a species was, in terms of getting into space.

I do worry that interstellar travel may not be realistic, due to all the stuff that a ship could crash into....but if you sent out enough von Neumann probes...some should get through..perhaps.

Von Neumann probes are like my favorite thing ever. That's just a logistics problem really. We could have some of those if we threw enough money at it, or at least an astrochicken.

That'll probably be our first encounter with an alien race - a relic from either a long-dead civilization, or from its early days. Someone somewhere might even find our dear Voyager, in millions and millions of years, and think it's the coolest thing.

 

[Blobbenstein]

if they can get nano technology working VN probes would be more likely......maybe they could be small and fired off all over the place...when they land on a dead planet, they could take it over completely and fire off trillions more VN probes.....I guess that is the idea.. ...bit like dandelions.....there should be plaques on the VN probes of a dandelion.

 

[FortyTwo]

if they can get nano technology working VN probes would be more likely......maybe they could be small and fired off all over the place...when they land on a dead planet, they could take it over completely and fire off trillions more VN probes.....I guess that is the idea.. ...bit like dandelions.....there should be plaques on the VN probes of a dandelion.

It's like Operation: Annihilate! all over again.

 

[Blobbenstein]

 

[Captain Caveman]

Since November 2013, i have been visited by Pleiadians who travel vast distances to reach Earth. One of the Pleiadians called Nada, resides on the planet Erra, whilst the other two beings that visit live on the planet Ptaah. According to an intuitive they are here to help me energetically. They can reach the Earth in about seven hours from the Pleiades star cluster which is many, many light years away.

 

[KLS52]

I'll have what he's ^^^ having.