"God gave us animals to eat,so it's ok"?

You really need to read upon Noah and the great flood. Why can’t vegans put it in your activist minds that God oked one time to eat animals as the great flood happened they had to wait til things to grow a full year.

This is about the Temple that Jesus drove out of money changers.
The vendors, as they are called , or money changers were cheating people and taking advantage of them. They weren't just selling animals for temple sacrifice, they were cheating their customers. Jesus said they had turned the Temple into a den of thieves, when it should have been a House of Prayer.
 
I had written a reply above but it is not there now... so I am re-writing it here.

I said two things:

1: Re God ok-ing eating animals after the flood - not exploiting or killing animals as far as practical may be consistent with saving teh human race temproraliy and tragically allowing starving people after a climate emergency and no vegetation to eat those animals for the first time.

2: About the Christspiracy film and the interpretation of the Biblical event of Jesus overthrowing the dove sellers Temple

Matthew 21:12 there were doves being sold not just money being sold
There is a reason doves were sold - animals were sacrificed at religious ceremonies at that time.

There are translations of the word 'thieves' in den of thieves that mean 'violent bandits'.
Here are three examinations of the Hebrew word:word

Serene Musings: A Den of Robbers

Thieves, Robbers, or Rebels? | Sunday Morning Greek Blog

and this book on page 77:
The Fate of the Jerusalem Temple in Luke-Acts: An Intertextual Approach to ... - Steve Smith - Google Books

The film highlights this translation.
It is the same word as describes 'violent ones' in Daniel 11:14
New King James Version:
Also, violent men of your people shall exalt themselves in fulfillment of the vision, but they shall fall.

I think the interpretation in the film is not blasphemous.

It is not only this film Chistspiracy that highlights this but the interpretations of the Bible are already out there
I does make it clear I recommend watching it.

---

I made a video a month ago:
looking at the different interpretations of this event in the bible.

I suggested Jesus' message was of mercy for suffering and for the spirit of life,
and monetary unfairness in money changing is not as likely to make Jesus as angry as unnecessary killing would be in a place of prayer.
 
I had written a reply above but it is not there now... so I am re-writing it here.

I said two things:

1: Re God ok-ing eating animals after the flood - not exploiting or killing animals as far as practical may be consistent with saving teh human race temproraliy and tragically allowing starving people after a climate emergency and no vegetation to eat those animals for the first time.

2: About the Christspiracy film and the interpretation of the Biblical event of Jesus overthrowing the dove sellers Temple

Matthew 21:12 there were doves being sold not just money being sold
There is a reason doves were sold - animals were sacrificed at religious ceremonies at that time.

There are translations of the word 'thieves' in den of thieves that mean 'violent bandits'.
Here are three examinations of the Hebrew word:word

Serene Musings: A Den of Robbers

Thieves, Robbers, or Rebels? | Sunday Morning Greek Blog

and this book on page 77:
The Fate of the Jerusalem Temple in Luke-Acts: An Intertextual Approach to ... - Steve Smith - Google Books

The film highlights this translation.
It is the same word as describes 'violent ones' in Daniel 11:14
New King James Version:
Also, violent men of your people shall exalt themselves in fulfillment of the vision, but they shall fall.

I think the interpretation in the film is not blasphemous.

It is not only this film Chistspiracy that highlights this but the interpretations of the Bible are already out there
I does make it clear I recommend watching it.

---

I made a video a month ago:
looking at the different interpretations of this event in the bible.

I suggested Jesus' message was of mercy for suffering and for the spirit of life,
and monetary unfairness in money changing is not as likely to make Jesus as angry as unnecessary killing would be in a place of prayer.
He meant of Den of thieves they were not being honest of how they were selling the animals so that why he did what he did.

Jesus Diet BasicsColbert explains that Jesus ate a Mediterranean-style diet based on wholesome, unprocessed foods in accordance with ancient Jewish dietary laws. Based on his research he concluded that the diet of Jesus would have included fish, whole wheat bread, olives, figs, dates and red wine.

Plus He ate some Lamb meat wish vegans research the truth then rely on some vegan man making Jesus vegan for agenda.
 
He meant of Den of thieves they were not being honest of how they were selling the animals so that why he did what he did.

Jesus Diet BasicsColbert explains that Jesus ate a Mediterranean-style diet based on wholesome, unprocessed foods in accordance with ancient Jewish dietary laws. Based on his research he concluded that the diet of Jesus would have included fish, whole wheat bread, olives, figs, dates and red wine.

Plus He ate some Lamb meat wish vegans research the truth then rely on some vegan man making Jesus vegan for agenda.
Regarding the word used for thieves
I do not think I am pushing an interpretation, I think it is the translators of for example the King James Bible who have used either intentionally or unintentionally their own cultural standard upon the biblical texts.

For example the text of Daniel 1:14

Also, violent men of your people shall exalt themselves in fulfillment of the vision, but they shall fall.
(King James Bible)

This translation of ‘violent men’ is from exacly the same word as for ‘thieves’ in the the ‘den of thieves’ quotation.

Christians are free to interpret the best they can with the facts they have available and made known to them.
 
Regarding the word used for thieves
I do not think I am pushing an interpretation, I think it is the translators of for example the King James Bible who have used either intentionally or unintentionally their own cultural standard upon the biblical texts.

For example the text of Daniel 1:14

Also, violent men of your people shall exalt themselves in fulfillment of the vision, but they shall fall.
(King James Bible)

This translation of ‘violent men’ is from exacly the same word as for ‘thieves’ in the the ‘den of thieves’ quotation.

Christians are free to interpret the best they can with the facts they have available and made known to them.

Matthew 21:13

Amplified Bible

13 Jesus said to them, “It is written [in Scripture], ‘My house shall be called a house of prayer’; but you are making it a robbers’ den.”
 
This movie is total
blasphemous
adjective

US

/ˈblæs·fə·məs/

Add to word list
(of speech or writing) showing lack of respect to God or to a religion:

It lies about how Jesus came to earth. It tells people that there are books from the Bible that are missing so Christians can promote animal cruelty.
The Bible is real clear how you cannot add and take from the Bible.

Revelation 22:18-19​

Amplified Bible​

18 I testify and warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book [its predictions, consolations, and admonitions]: if anyone adds [anything] to them, God will add to him the plagues (afflictions, calamities) which are written in this book; 19 and if anyone takes away from or distorts the words of the book of this prophecy, God will take away [from that one] his share from the tree of life and from the holy city (new Jerusalem), which are written in this book.

2 Timothy 3:16-17​

Amplified Bible​

16 All Scripture is God-breathed [given by divine inspiration] and is profitable for instruction, for conviction [of sin], for correction [of error and restoration to obedience], for training in righteousness [learning to live in conformity to God’s will, both publicly and privately—behaving honorably with personal integrity and moral courage]; 17 so that the [a]man of God may be complete and proficient, outfitted and thoroughly equipped for every good work.


I will not be seeing this movie as its telling lies about My Savior and Bible.
I understand your anger. However there are several books written about the inconsitencies in the Bible, and how thousands of
times, names, events, places cannot have happened the way the bible says they did. The bible was somewhat written from other
ancient texts that predate the bible by hundreds of years. For instance, Yeshua did not share FISH with the masses, he actually
was vegetarian and shared bread and GRAPES (or melons). However this may also anger you.

It was also re-written by Emporer Constantine who was a pagan roman ruler
who supposodly converted to Christianity (he did to get elected). The belief is that HE (through his many scribes) had the bible changed
and altered in many ways.
The Dead sea scrolls were hidden in caves to keep them from being destroyed.
The Nag Hamadhi texts were also ancient, as is the Gospel of the Holy twelve.

You can dig your heels in, or, you can at least read and listen to information that shows, something is amiss. Thats; the only way
to learn. You are in a vegan chat room, so you once were an omnivore as well.
 
You really need to read upon Noah and the great flood. Why can’t vegans put it in your activist minds that God oked one time to eat animals as the great flood happened they had to wait til things to grow a full year.

This is about the Temple that Jesus drove out of money changers.
The vendors, as they are called , or money changers were cheating people and taking advantage of them. They weren't just selling animals for temple sacrifice, they were cheating their customers. Jesus said they had turned the Temple into a den of thieves, when it should have been a House of Prayer.
Yeshua saw the animal sacrificing as desecrating "his fathers house" with blood of the innocent.
He did not eat dead fish or dead animals. He was an animal rights activist. He and his family were Essenes, and vegetarians.
There were many floods mentioned in much older texts than the modern bible. It is believed that much info. in the bible
were taken and re-interpreted from these older texts.

I think the Bible is an amazing book and does have wisdom in it. Yet it was corrupted by Pagan roman emporer constantine and
his council of nicea around the 4th c, and humans have believed all in it for many years.....cheers
 
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Yeshua saw the animal sacrificing as desecrating "his fathers house" with blood of the innocent.
He did not eat dead fish or dead animals. He was an animal rights activist. He and his family were Essenes, and vegetarians.
There were many floods mentioned in much older texts than the modern bible. It is believed that much info. in the bible
were taken and re-interpreted from these older texts.

I think the Bible is an amazing book and does have wisdom in it. Yet it was corrupted by Pagan roman emporer constantine and
his council of nicea around the 4th c, and humans have believed all in it for many years.....cheers
Anything but what most scholars believe. Jesus turned over the tables because the money lenders were ripping people off, not because of animal rights. After his resurrection, he ate fish in front of his disciples to prove he wasn't a ghost. There is no reliable evidence whatsoever that he was a vegetarian, no evidence that he was an essene and historical records show that essenes ate some meat.

Was Jesus a Vegetarian?
No mainstream theologian buys the vegetarians’ argument because the Gospels are fairly straightforward about the Messiah’s tastes in food. “Jesus said unto them, Have ye here any meat? And they gave him a piece of broiled fish. … And he took it, and did eat before them” (Luke 24:41-43).
So if John was an Essene—which is by no means certain—the vegetarian theologians maintain that he made Jesus one too by baptizing him. That’s quite a stretch. So is the vegetarian theologians’ second argument. The Gospels identify the two other major Jewish sects of the day, the Sadducees and Pharisees, as opponents of Jesus. But the Gospels don’t mention the Essenes, therefore Jesus must have been an Essene. This is what is known as an “argument from silence.” (William Phipps used a similar tactic for different ends in his controversial 1970 book, Was Jesus Married?) “It’s a lot of baloney, as far as I’m concerned,” says Father Joseph Fitzmeyer, a professor of biblical studies at Georgetown University and an expert on the Dead Sea Scrolls.
 
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Anything but what most scholars believe. Jesus turned over the tables because the money lenders were ripping people off, not because of animal rights. After his resurrection, he ate fish in front of his disciples to prove he wasn't a ghost. There is no reliable evidence whatsoever that he was a vegetarian, no evidence that he was an essene and historical records show that essenes ate some meat.

Was Jesus a Vegetarian?
You have your beliefs.
"Meat" back then referred to any solid food, not necessarilty to the cadaver of an animal.
However sacred bread was made IN THE SHAPE OF FISH. They used bread molds sahped like fish. Back then, "broiled" meant TOAST by the way.
Also, in that part of the world humans did and still do eat seaweed that was also referred to as fish from the sea.

Why would anyone who just passed, want to eat FOOD, let alone something DEAD? we have no appetite when we pass....
I will make you into "fishers of men". Yeshua abhorred killing animals and multiple bible references attest to his compassion toward animals.
So tell me, how would Yeshua, the Lamb of God, the Prince of peace, The BREAD of life, kill an animal to eat it?.
Yeshua, his whole family were vegetarians. Yeshua was an Essene. He did not eat the dead. While SOME Essenes may have eaten the dead.
WHY are Yeshua's years, from 12 to 30 or so, not included at all in the bible?. They were scrubbed!.
The "fish story" was added later by Constantine's scribes who promoted eating the dead and their blood.
The GOSPEL OF THE HOLY TWELVE, Gospel of the Ebionites, reveals the truths hidden from the bible. Have a blessed day.
a vegetarian Yeshua
Yeshua was a vegetarian, biblical and historical proof
 
As I suggested back a few pages, I think the Christian bible offers ample scope for Christians to behave much as vegans do. I'm not sure why there is a need to prove Jesus was vegetarian or whatever, because it's clear from the bible that God permits people to use animals. And back then, using them for food and clothing etc was important. As to how Jesus would have killed an animal, I'd say he'd have done so according to whatever were the customs of the time. I really don't think he would have felt some particular motivation not to kill it if the need was there. Animals are not human beings.

The bottom line is that vegans and Christians are permitted by both secular law and by God to kill and eat animals. From there, they get to apply the ethical principles they believe should be applied according to their respective beliefs about the world. Neither HAS to kill an animal for food, whenever circumstances permit.
 
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As I suggested back a few pages, I think the Christian bible offers ample scope for Christians to behave much as vegans do. I'm not sure why there is a need to prove Jesus was vegetarian or whatever, because it's clear from the bible that God permits people to use animals. And back then, using them for food and clothing etc was important. As to how Jesus would have killed an animal, I'd say he'd have done so according to whatever were the customs of the time. I really don't think he would have felt some particular motivation not to kill it if the need was there. Animals are not human beings.

The bottom line is that vegans and Christians are permitted by both secular law and by God to kill and eat animals. From there, they get to apply the ethical principles they believe should be applied according to their respective beliefs about the world. Neither HAS to kill an animal for food, whenever circumstances permit.
This is an interpretation of the Bible that is common amongst Christians today, but the permission you mention can be interpreted as only relevant for people temporarily at points in the Bible, there were wars in the Bible that does not mean wars are good now. It is very possible to interpret the Bible as saying God does not want us to kill animals and to interpret the Gospels as Jesus being a vegetarian.

Here is a verse supporting this:

Isaiah 1:11 The LORD says, “I do not want all these sacrifices. I have had enough of your burnt sacrifices of male sheep and fat from fine animals. I am not pleased by the blood of bulls, lambs, and goats.
 
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This is an interpretation of the Bible that is common amongst Christians today, but the permission you mention can be interpreted as only relevant for people temporarily at points in the Bible, there were wars in the Bible that does not mean wars are good now. It is very possible to interpret the Bible as saying God does not want us to kill animals and to interpret the Gospels as Jesus being a vegetarian.

Here is a verse supporting this:

Isaiah 1:11 The LORD says, “I do not want all these sacrifices. I have had enough of your burnt sacrifices of male sheep and fat from fine animals. I am not pleased by the blood of bulls, lambs, and goats.
Hi, there are many contradictory passages in the bible. Many support sacrificing animals and even children. Those passages
support paganism and sacrifices to moloch, baal. However, several also contradict these. Clearly, God does not want animals
or children, sacrificed....
 
This is an interpretation of the Bible that is common amongst Christians today, but the permission you mention can be interpreted as only relevant for people temporarily at points in the Bible, there were wars in the Bible that does not mean wars are good now. It is very possible to interpret the Bible as saying God does not want us to kill animals and to interpret the Gospels as Jesus being a vegetarian.

Here is a verse supporting this:

Isaiah 1:11 The LORD says, “I do not want all these sacrifices. I have had enough of your burnt sacrifices of male sheep and fat from fine animals. I am not pleased by the blood of bulls, lambs, and goats.

Yes, and it is crystal clear that the original Creation was essentially "vegan". And apparently so will what comes next. But after the Fall (correct me if I am wrong here, as an atheist I am not *that* familiar with the bible), nature was corrupted and so carnivory came into being along with sin and death. Humans changed, and so eating animals became more commonplace. Plus God demanded atonement sacrifice. Then after the Flood, God gave permission to eat animals, but really that was just making clear what had already become the norm. So sure, with Jesus's sacrifice the need for the spilling of animal blood as an atonement ended, but I don't think there is any biblical passage that shows some general direction not to eat animals. I think where we are is that God allows animal use (and the diet laws were changed with Jesus to allow all animals to be eaten), but the important point is "allows". Not "orders". And that's why I think Christians can be guided by both God's just and compassionate nature as well as reference to pre-Fall times to act in ways that we can regard as consistent with veganism. In neither case is anyone under a direct order not to use/eat animals. It's all a personal choice.
 
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Yes, and it is crystal clear that the original Creation was essentially "vegan". And apparently so will what comes next. But after the Fall (correct me if I am wrong here, as an atheist I am not *that* familiar with the bible), nature was corrupted and so carnivory came into being along with sin and death. Humans changed, and so eating animals became more commonplace. Plus God demanded atonement sacrifice. Then after the Flood, God gave permission to eat animals, but really that was just making clear what had already become the norm. So sure, with Jesus's sacrifice the need for the spilling of animal blood as an atonement ended, but I don't think there is any biblical passage that shows some general direction not to eat animals. I think where we are is that God allows animal use (and the diet laws were changed with Jesus to allow all animals to be eaten), but the important point is "allows". Not "orders". And that's why I think Christians can be guided by both God's just and compassionate nature as well as reference to pre-Fall times to act in ways that we can regard as consistent with veganism. In neither case is anyone under a direct order not to use/eat animals. It's all a personal choice.
For an atheist, you have understood it very well indeed. One thing about Christianity is that it is not about written laws and rules, it is about the heart. When I contemplate the heart of God by looking at Jesus I see a heart of compassion that I want to emulate and I find myself wanting to cause least possible harm to all of God's creation.
 
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HOW CAN VEGANS REACH CHRISTIANS WHO SAY, "God gave us the animals to eat, so its' ok"?

Hi all. I am not religious but I am spiritual. I do however believe in a kind loving non-judgemental God of light as well as Yeshua.
All religions emphasize kindness and compassion, yet they also okay and even promote eating animal flesh and blood. Some
churches host hunting events, in addition to get-together dinners where animals are served. Many religious humans use
the justification of eating animals saying, God gave them to us to feed us. So that makes it okay.
I believe that God blessed us with the animals for us to be caretakers, stewards, even parents, so we could have companions.
Not so we could kill, destroy, use, and eat them. We were also blessed with the Earth to live and thrive on, as caretakers and stewards,
yet we have really disrespected this gift.
What is the best approach to reach religious humans about the killing and consumption of animals by humans?. Namaste'.
I'm not religious or spiritual myself, but am pretty familiar with religion. All religions suggest that eating animal flesh is less virtuous than plant foods. Early Christian's for example had many days out of the calendar year where they would abstain from meat and animal products. There are no forbidden plant foods in any religion, but many meats are considered unholy, like pork
 
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