Spirituality Divine Justice - how ought it to work?

Second Summer

Second Summer

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Good people go to Heaven in the Abrahamic religions, while Buddhism and Hinduism have concepts about karma, reincarnation and Nirvana. Somehow it's got to pay off to be virtuous and follow the doctrines of the religion, but obviously it doesn't always seem to pay off in our current life, so therefore there has to at least be a reward in the afterlife or the next life. Contemporary spirituality also seem to have adopted the concepts about karma and reincarnation, although they sometimes seem to think it really will pay off in our current lives, at least partly.

I was just thinking, assuming there is a God or some divine force, how ought divine justice to work? Some old guy with a beard sitting in the clouds judging you for your good and bad deeds? Some divine mathematical formula that determines the shape of your reincarnation?
 
If a divine entity actually exists, it's unlikely it cares about the affairs of human. An omnipotent being is to us, as we are to a gnat. We don't care if a gnat has been naughty or nice, and I doubt an all powerful being cares about our deeds/misdeeds. He has far more important things to take care of. I'm fairly certain that he takes a hands-off approach, so even if we exists in some form after death, I doubt there is any structure or formalities. (including no punishments and rewards)

The whole "you'll get you reward in Heaven" thing was devised by those in power to convince the masses to accept their lot in life, and the terrible conditions and circumstances they were subjected to.

"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich"
-Napoleon-
 
That may be so. I guess my question should have been simply: "Assuming there is such a thing as divine justice, how ought it to work?"

Last night one of our neighbours was having a birthday party. This is a loud woman who talks a lot, which is not a good combination of personality traits. She's the kind of person that makes you want to roll your eyes a lot. The birthday party went on and on and on and on until about 3am or so, and they managed to keep the entire neighbourhood awake in the process, with music, song, stupid laughter and general drunkenness.

So if there is such a thing as divine justice, what would be the appropriate punishment for this? Should the punishment come in this life or the next?
 
I'm not sure divine justice should punish people for enjoying a birthday party, loudly, once. :) I think divine justice would concern itself with what's moral, not what's polite.

I don't believe in any divine being or justice, but I always felt that if there was an all-powerful, all-loving, all-knowing, generally good-guy divine being out there, he would care most (if not only) about whether you're a good person. Whether you care about others, whether you care doing what's "right", whether your intentions are good, whether you try to help out, how you treat the rest of the world, etc. I figure if they care more about whether I believe in them, how I worship them, who I have sex with, etc, they can't really be an all-loving good guy. Especially if they want to punish me for it. That, or their idea of "good" is so far from what I can understand there's no point in me trying to figure it out.

As to how they dole out justice - well I don't know :shrug: that's not something we've even really nailed here on earth is it, but I think damning people for eternity is a bit far. I like idea of giving people a chance to put things right, be it in this life of "the next". I don't really like the idea of punishment for retributions sake, because nothing is really gained for anybody, it just seems indulgent to me.
 
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Indian Summer said:
That may be so. I guess my question should have been simply: "Assuming there is such a thing as divine justice, how ought it to work?"

Last night one of our neighbours was having a birthday party. This is a loud woman who talks a lot, which is not a good combination of personality traits. She's the kind of person that makes you want to roll your eyes a lot. The birthday party went on and on and on and on until about 3am or so, and they managed to keep the entire neighbourhood awake in the process, with music, song, stupid laughter and general drunkenness.

So if there is such a thing as divine justice, what would be the appropriate punishment for this? Should the punishment come in this life or the next?
Click to expand...

Our not being all-knowing, maybe there was more positive than negative that occurred as a result of that loud, late party. Perhaps the person she threw the party for is terminally ill and will not see another birthday after last night. Or maybe he has a dying child or parent that he is the caretaker for, and this is the first break from the tension and grief inherent in that. Or perhaps a murderer was stalking the neighborhood at 1:45 AM, and decided to go home instead after seeing everyone awake. Maybe if the party had ended at ten pm, a guest driving home would have struck a car, killing a woman, thus leaving a baby motherless.

So perhaps the loud neighbor would be due a reward when the scales of justice were balanced. On the one hand, she obnoxiously kept families with small children and people with responsibilities the next day awake all night; on the other hand, one of the above scenarios.

The divine justice would be able to weigh more factors than we mere humans could calculate.
 
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I love the posts from SummerRain and ledboots. :)
 
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Indian Summer said:
That may be so. I guess my question should have been simply: "Assuming there is such a thing as divine justice, how ought it to work?"

So if there is such a thing as divine justice, what would be the appropriate punishment for this? Should the punishment come in this life or the next?
Click to expand...

For that specific incident, there shouldn't be any divine justice. Divine justice should be reserved for truly evil actions, not for being ignorant or inconsiderate. As far as the specifics of the punishment, I really don't know how you can punish an immortal soul. Burning in Hell-fire as bad as it sounds to flesh and blood mortals, is irrelevant to a disembodied soul.

But like LB said, how can mortals understand the motivations of an Omnipotent being. Just because people wrote what they believed to be gods will in an old book, doesn't make it the actual/accurate word of god, just humans interpretation of it.

Good topic, btw. :up:
 
There is a God and he don't punish you for being loud and rough for a party, I have done alot of things in my past but, I am not punished for them. I also believe that you don't need organized religion to experience God either or that nature, just live your life as it leads you.
 
The divine works in mysterious ways ...

Some bunch of boat dwelling yoghurt-weavers once told my dad to FO when he asked them to keep party noise down as he had to be up early for work.

The hand of the divine guided m'dad's hands to rock each of the offending boats in turn while yelling "WAKEY! WAKEY!" at the top of his voice at 06.00 hours that morning.
 
ledboots said:
Our not being all-knowing, maybe there was more positive than negative that occurred as a result of that loud, late party. Perhaps the person she threw the party for is terminally ill and will not see another birthday after last night. Or maybe he has a dying child or parent that he is the caretaker for, and this is the first break from the tension and grief inherent in that. Or perhaps a murderer was stalking the neighborhood at 1:45 AM, and decided to go home instead after seeing everyone awake. Maybe if the party had ended at ten pm, a guest driving home would have struck a car, killing a woman, thus leaving a baby motherless.

So perhaps the loud neighbor would be due a reward when the scales of justice were balanced. On the one hand, she obnoxiously kept families with small children and people with responsibilities the next day awake all night; on the other hand, one of the above scenarios.

The divine justice would be able to weigh more factors than we mere humans could calculate.
Click to expand...
Since the woman could not possibly foresee some of these scenarios, then they were not part of her deliberations, which means she can't be praised for her actions. The terminally ill / dying child scenarios seem unlikely to me, but who knows. However, her lack of consideration for her neighbours is something she can most definitely be blamed for. If there is such a thing as divine justice, then this woman will surely be of those nearest to the burning sulphur pits, while little devils poke the tormented souls with pointy pitchforks etc. :)
 

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