What should I do about by compost bins?

mlod54

Newcomer
Joined
May 1, 2021
Reaction score
11
Age
29
Location
United Kingdom
Lifestyle
  1. Vegan
I have bought a house which has compost bins in the garden with rotting food in them and lots of worms. I'm really worried about how I can avoid any of the worms dieing. If I don't add anything more to the bins, I imagine they will end up starving to death. But if I add anything, I worry that I might crush worms to death and then what about when they get full? I can't see how I could remove compost without killing any worms and it also doesn't seem ethical to pull them out of their home. Also when I lift up one of the lids, there are lots of worms on the inside of it and it's really stressful trying to close it without killing any worms.
 
I have bought a house which has compost bins in the garden with rotting food in them and lots of worms. I'm really worried about how I can avoid any of the worms dieing. If I don't add anything more to the bins, I imagine they will end up starving to death. But if I add anything, I worry that I might crush worms to death and then what about when they get full? I can't see how I could remove compost without killing any worms and it also doesn't seem ethical to pull them out of their home. Also when I lift up one of the lids, there are lots of worms on the inside of it and it's really stressful trying to close it without killing any worms.
Allow the compost to fully rot, then carefully spread the compost into the garden space. Not possible to prevent all worm deaths. The birds, possums, and/or raccoons in your neighborhood will be eating them out of the compost bin anyway. We can’t really control deaths within nature.
 
Compost bins are supposed to contain rotting foods and worms. I don't see the problem.
And worms are pretty hardy.
Also keep in mind that when the worms do die they just become more compost.
 
Compost bins are great! You're feeding worms as well as other beneficial insects and keeping food waste from landfills
Worms regenerate when cut, and really quite hardy. They environment of compost is absolutely perfect--keep it layered and wet as needed
Try not to stress, animals and insects don't live the life you do. Do your best for all involved
One thing I like about having a compost pile is it allows me to add food for other animals without intentionally "feeding", which is not allowed in my area. I don't have a lid though, it's just a pile with skids around it to contain it
 
Allow the compost to fully rot, then carefully spread the compost into the garden space. Not possible to prevent all worm deaths. The birds, possums, and/or raccoons in your neighborhood will be eating them out of the compost bin anyway. We can’t really control deaths within nature.
Thanks for the suggestion. The thing is, I don't think other animals can eat them when they're in the compost bin because it has a lid. So I feel that it wouldn't be right to take them outside the compost bin where they may be eaten. Also how could I ensure that I don't kill any when I spread the compost?

There are so many worms in there and it's really scary that their fate is in my hands. I'm guessing the previous owner of my house didn't care about their welfare, he certainly wasn't a vegan as there's an egg box in one of the compost bins.
Compost bins are supposed to contain rotting foods and worms. I don't see the problem.
And worms are pretty hardy.
Also keep in mind that when the worms do die they just become more compost.
But does the weight of adding more food never crush them? Also there are 3 bins and my understanding is that I'm meant to transfer the compost from one to another sometimes. But surely lots of worms must die when this is done?
 
Compost bins are great! You're feeding worms as well as other beneficial insects and keeping food waste from landfills
Worms regenerate when cut, and really quite hardy. They environment of compost is absolutely perfect--keep it layered and wet as needed
Try not to stress, animals and insects don't live the life you do. Do your best for all involved
One thing I like about having a compost pile is it allows me to add food for other animals without intentionally "feeding", which is not allowed in my area. I don't have a lid though, it's just a pile with skids around it to contain it
But how do you know the weight of the food you add won't kill or maim any worms?
 
But how do you know the weight of the food you add won't kill or maim any worms?
I don't. While I don't intentionally step on insects, I do walk on dirt and grass, as do all the other animals. Tree branches, and trees themselves, fall. Wind blows, snow and rain fall.
You cannot control everything. As long as there is death, we all will die. We do our best to do the least harm, but we will never be in control of everything.
What would you see as an alternative? I think keeping the bins and researching the best way, is the best idea
 
  • Like
Reactions: bEt
Thanks for the suggestion. The thing is, I don't think other animals can eat them when they're in the compost bin because it has a lid. So I feel that it wouldn't be right to take them outside the compost bin where they may be eaten. Also how could I ensure that I don't kill any when I spread the compost?

There are so many worms in there and it's really scary that their fate is in my hands. I'm guessing the previous owner of my house didn't care about their welfare, he certainly wasn't a vegan as there's an egg box in one of the compost bins.

But does the weight of adding more food never crush them? Also there are 3 bins and my understanding is that I'm meant to transfer the compost from one to another sometimes. But surely lots of worms must die when this is done?
First off, I guess I should apologize. I gave your question short shrift because I was sure you were a troll.

We are vegans here. Not Jainists. We are not against all animals dying. Animals die all the time.

We are against animal exploitation. I guess compost bins are sort of a form of animal exploitation.
But it sounds like you are set on minimizing worm death in composting. Which is cool.

And keep in mind that clause in the definition of vegan: as far as is possible and practicable

Its not like adding food to a compost bin is an act of cruelty. in fact you can think of it as an act of kindness. if it wasn't for you those poor little things would starve.

And yes sure some worms will get eaten by wildlife when you spread the compost. Mostly by birds but some mammals may be attracted to freshly spead compost. Well, you can probably just think of it as another act of kindness. Those birds could use a good meal. also if they aren't eating Your worms, then they will just find some other bugs to eat. And you can even minimize worm death by wildlife. you can just patrol the garden for a little while. The worms know they are easy pickings on the surface and will head underground as soon as fast as they can wiggle their little a$$es.

A utilitarian would be concerned with the total happiness of the worms. The more worms there are the more worm happiness exists. And your compost bins are providing habitat for lots and lots of happy worms. Some worm death is inevitable but like I said they are pretty hardy. And the few who don't survive just turn into more compost - which is good too.

Besides transferring the compost from one bin to another, I think you have to regularly turn over the compost. and both of these things will require you to stick your shovel in the compost bin. which will result in your harming or killing a few worms. But keep in mind that keeping your compost bins healthy is the very best thing you can be doing for your worms.
 
First off, I guess I should apologize. I gave your question short shrift because I was sure you were a troll.

We are vegans here. Not Jainists. We are not against all animals dying. Animals die all the time.

We are against animal exploitation. I guess compost bins are sort of a form of animal exploitation.
But it sounds like you are set on minimizing worm death in composting. Which is cool.

And keep in mind that clause in the definition of vegan: as far as is possible and practicable

Its not like adding food to a compost bin is an act of cruelty. in fact you can think of it as an act of kindness. if it wasn't for you those poor little things would starve.

And yes sure some worms will get eaten by wildlife when you spread the compost. Mostly by birds but some mammals may be attracted to freshly spead compost. Well, you can probably just think of it as another act of kindness. Those birds could use a good meal. also if they aren't eating Your worms, then they will just find some other bugs to eat. And you can even minimize worm death by wildlife. you can just patrol the garden for a little while. The worms know they are easy pickings on the surface and will head underground as soon as fast as they can wiggle their little a$$es.

A utilitarian would be concerned with the total happiness of the worms. The more worms there are the more worm happiness exists. And your compost bins are providing habitat for lots and lots of happy worms. Some worm death is inevitable but like I said they are pretty hardy. And the few who don't survive just turn into more compost - which is good too.

Besides transferring the compost from one bin to another, I think you have to regularly turn over the compost. and both of these things will require you to stick your shovel in the compost bin. which will result in your harming or killing a few worms. But keep in mind that keeping your compost bins healthy is the very best thing you can be doing for your worms.
And... the total happiness of the ones who thrive on eating insects. And...the total happiness of the soil quality the plants depend on.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Lou
I don't. While I don't intentionally step on insects, I do walk on dirt and grass, as do all the other animals. Tree branches, and trees themselves, fall. Wind blows, snow and rain fall.
You cannot control everything. As long as there is death, we all will die. We do our best to do the least harm, but we will never be in control of everything.
What would you see as an alternative? I think keeping the bins and researching the best way, is the best idea
The alternative would be to continue to send my food waste to the landfill but I don't know what the most ethical thing to do is about my compost bins which already have worms. Even if I continue to let the worms breed in the most ethical way possible, what if I move house or die? I can't trust the next owner to care about their welfare!
First off, I guess I should apologize. I gave your question short shrift because I was sure you were a troll.

We are vegans here. Not Jainists. We are not against all animals dying. Animals die all the time.

We are against animal exploitation. I guess compost bins are sort of a form of animal exploitation.
But it sounds like you are set on minimizing worm death in composting. Which is cool.

And keep in mind that clause in the definition of vegan: as far as is possible and practicable

Its not like adding food to a compost bin is an act of cruelty. in fact you can think of it as an act of kindness. if it wasn't for you those poor little things would starve.

And yes sure some worms will get eaten by wildlife when you spread the compost. Mostly by birds but some mammals may be attracted to freshly spead compost. Well, you can probably just think of it as another act of kindness. Those birds could use a good meal. also if they aren't eating Your worms, then they will just find some other bugs to eat. And you can even minimize worm death by wildlife. you can just patrol the garden for a little while. The worms know they are easy pickings on the surface and will head underground as soon as fast as they can wiggle their little a$$es.

A utilitarian would be concerned with the total happiness of the worms. The more worms there are the more worm happiness exists. And your compost bins are providing habitat for lots and lots of happy worms. Some worm death is inevitable but like I said they are pretty hardy. And the few who don't survive just turn into more compost - which is good too.

Besides transferring the compost from one bin to another, I think you have to regularly turn over the compost. and both of these things will require you to stick your shovel in the compost bin. which will result in your harming or killing a few worms. But keep in mind that keeping your compost bins healthy is the very best thing you can be doing for your worms.
It's a shame that such a question came across as trolling. Thanks for giving me such a detailed answer now though. I have cared about all animals since I was about 12 although I have buried the connection in my mind between animals and meat until recently because my parents opposed me giving up meat as a child. But for as long as I have cared about animals, I have thought of animals such as insects and worms as sentient beings and I would get very angry with my parents for killing insects when I was a kid. I can't understand why most people kill insects intentionally without thinking twice, without even doing any research into whether or not they suffer.

I'm not convinced that allowing the worms to breed would reduce animal suffering as far as possible and practicable. Is it not possible that if I provide more food for birds, there will be more birds and hence more predation? Would it be ok to have 10 children if we knew for certain one of them would be murdered rather than not have the children at all? I can't see how I can justify doing anything which I know is likely to harm or kill worms.
 
The alternative would be to continue to send my food waste to the landfill but I don't know what the most ethical thing to do is about my compost bins which already have worms. Even if I continue to let the worms breed in the most ethical way possible, what if I move house or die? I can't trust the next owner to care about their welfare!

It's a shame that such a question came across as trolling. Thanks for giving me such a detailed answer now though. I have cared about all animals since I was about 12 although I have buried the connection in my mind between animals and meat until recently because my parents opposed me giving up meat as a child. But for as long as I have cared about animals, I have thought of animals such as insects and worms as sentient beings and I would get very angry with my parents for killing insects when I was a kid. I can't understand why most people kill insects intentionally without thinking twice, without even doing any research into whether or not they suffer.

I'm not convinced that allowing the worms to breed would reduce animal suffering as far as possible and practicable. Is it not possible that if I provide more food for birds, there will be more birds and hence more predation? Would it be ok to have 10 children if we knew for certain one of them would be murdered rather than not have the children at all? I can't see how I can justify doing anything which I know is likely to harm or kill worms.
How many animals and insects lost their lives, and habitats, for your house? For the roads your car travels on, for all the goods you purchase and consume?
If this isn't a troll post (and a common theme as many seem to think vegans/AR need to feel this severely) it is a need to get help
You are not responsible for all the other lives around you, you only have the control of what YOU do to run YOUR life, and to do it in a way that best preserves the quality of your life with the least amount of harm to others. Now, that is a wide range of how to go, but most vegans manage to strike a balance between caring for others, while caring for themselves. It's not really that hard since most of the culture has gone out of the way to create harm, and vegans can reject it--like intentionally enslaving animals to use them as commodities. Vegans don't do that as the base point of their lifestyle

You will consume plants. If you grow them, you will disturb insects and animals. When you pick them, again disturbing--and you are taking their food away! This really is OCD, and it's not doing anyone, any good. It's good to think things through, but there is a time you should stop, and realize you're thinking too far. What is real and practical? Hand picking the worms to send off to live in a new pile before you add or remove? What would be the best solution for EVERYONE in keeping compost piles? If it can't be something that is really achievable by others, it won't be practical for one
 
  • Like
Reactions: David3
Thanks to @Sylvia for explaining why I thought you were a troll.

The question that comes to mind is: Is it possible to care too much?

Since the majority of people care too little, this is not something that is discussed or even thought about very often. and since most people care too little, I would feel uncomfortable persuading someone to care less.

Your question about the ten children reminds me very much of some of the discussions we had in Ethics class. Its also the kind of question that Utilitarians get a kick out of. Come to think of it, Betham was a utilitarian that is held in great esteem by vegans. I think he developed some kind of arithmetic to help figure out those kind of issues. I think 9:1 would have a simple solution.

I'm pretty sure the Jainists believed in reincarnation. So you might be a reincarnated Jainist. And being that you were not reborn as a slug or earthworm, you must be doing an excellent job. Keep up the good work! :)

Listen, all philosophizing and kidding aside, without joining a Jain monastery, your existence is going to cause harm to other beings. Vegans try to minimize that. but we realize that we can't be perfect in that regard. That is why we have that as much a possible and practicable clause. What is possible and practicable is subjective and IMHO a personal decision. So just do what you feel is right. But I think you should continue composting. It's good for the Earth.

You know when Darwin finished his explorations he settled down in Kent. And studied earthworms. His last book was about earthworms. much of what we know about earthworms and composting came from Darwin. I think he became very curious about the sentience of earthworms. and one could easily conclude that he treated his worms with great respect and care. by taking care of your earthworms you are emulating one of the greatest scientific minds.

However try not to go crazy.

 
  • Like
Reactions: David3
For me, years and years ago, it was my obsessing with idea like this that caused me to stray from vegan. It was like every time I stopped animal products and researched every thing they were in, from directly to indirectly, from farms to slaughterhouse products, I would spiral into OCD I couldn't control. Everything in my life was affected and I felt as if I'd have a mental breakdown. I was however, able to stop thinking about it, shut my mind, and revert to the standard ways, but I could not find a middle ground.
It wasn't until I made a very conscience decision to NOT include certain ingredients-like enzymes, l-cysteine, mono and diglycerides, as well as many other things that made veganism out of my range of possibility. I refused to cry over finding I ate gelatine, I even now take vitamin D that is made from sheeps wool

Anyway, my point is that you have to find the best way to do YOU.

As to the possibility about the 10 kids? One could be a killer or one could be a saviour! You cannot sustain your live your life with "what ifs"?
 
  • Like
  • Love
Reactions: poivron and Lou
As to the possibility about the 10 kids? One could be a killer or one could be a saviour! You cannot sustain your live your life with "what ifs"?

Silva is right about all that stuff. And What Ifs can drive you crazy. or more often drive you into indecisiveness.
but if I remember right, the 10 kids thought experiment had the What If magically removed. It was a Known Certainty. Nowadays this isn't even a thought experiment anymore. Genetic testing can reveal a fetus with a birth defect. We can even detect them in a woman's eggs. Gosh. You don't even have to imagine ethical dilemmas anymore.
 
My son is an absolutely brilliant teacher of very young children. One educational tool he introduced into his teaching is called “Worry Time”. Children are invited to start off a sentence with, “I am really worried about …….” and then to explain why.

It has a multitude of advantages including stress release and the honing of skills such as articulation and empathy.

This troll inspired thread reminds me very much of “Worry Time”.

Roger.
 
For me, years and years ago, it was my obsessing with idea like this that caused me to stray from vegan. It was like every time I stopped animal products and researched every thing they were in, from directly to indirectly, from farms to slaughterhouse products, I would spiral into OCD I couldn't control. Everything in my life was affected and I felt as if I'd have a mental breakdown. I was however, able to stop thinking about it, shut my mind, and revert to the standard ways, but I could not find a middle ground.
This is a very good point. The first time I tried to go vegan, I gave up after four months because, among other things, I struggled with the idea of replacing leather and wool with plastic. It seemed to me that using leather and wool would ultimately be better for animals than adding more plastic to the environment. (At least, I think this is what I thought; my memory is a bit fuzzy.) So I went back to eating animals for the next eleven years. I wish I had stayed vegan and just made an exception for small amounts of leather and wool, purchased every few years, preferably used. Or that I had just been vegetarian or pesceterian for those eleven years. But I was a black-and-white person; I had to be either a perfect vegan or a full-blown, unapologetic animal eater.

Making veganism into a purity test, for ourselves or for others, inevitably reduces the number of vegans and makes the world a worse place for animals.

As for the original question, I think that the best solution is to learn to use the compost bin, even if it requires multiple failed attempts and dead worms. Composting keeps stuff out of the landfills and therefore reduces our overall environmental footprint.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: bEt and Lou
I have bought a house which has compost bins in the garden with rotting food in them and lots of worms. I'm really worried about how I can avoid any of the worms dieing. If I don't add anything more to the bins, I imagine they will end up starving to death. But if I add anything, I worry that I might crush worms to death and then what about when they get full? I can't see how I could remove compost without killing any worms and it also doesn't seem ethical to pull them out of their home. Also when I lift up one of the lids, there are lots of worms on the inside of it and it's really stressful trying to close it without killing any worms.
Compost bins ideally need an open base for access to and from the ground. You’ll miss out on trillions of beneficial bacteria, mycorrhizae and even more worms attending the party without this.
Ensure it is kept to a fair level of moistness, with rainwater preferably if you have the access and turn the pile once a week (with a garden fork to prevent destroying life in the mix.)
Mother nature composts all day long so don’t think isolating her from your compost pile is beneficial!
All the best 👌🏻
 
  • Like
Reactions: bEt
Compost bins ideally need an open base for access to and from the ground. You’ll miss out on trillions of beneficial bacteria, mycorrhizae and even more worms attending the party without this.
Ensure it is kept to a fair level of moistness, with rainwater preferably if you have the access and turn the pile once a week (with a garden fork to prevent destroying life in the mix.)
Mother nature composts all day long so don’t think isolating her from your compost pile is beneficial!
All the best 👌🏻
I probably have no right to contradict you because my experience is limited. but I am under the impression that if you start your compost pile with some soil and regularly add soil (especially the soil you made from last month's compost), you compost can be almost a closed system. just keep adding water, waste and soil.

my favorite compost bin design is the rotating barrel. come to think of it, this might be the most worm-friendly design. you can turn the compost without a shovel or pitch fork, just by rotating it.
 
  • Like
Reactions: bEt and RWilton
I probably have no right to contradict you because my experience is limited. but I am under the impression that if you start your compost pile with some soil and regularly add soil (especially the soil you made from last month's compost), you compost can be almost a closed system. just keep adding water, waste and soil.

my favorite compost bin design is the rotating barrel. come to think of it, this might be the most worm-friendly design. you can turn the compost without a shovel or pitch fork, just by rotating it.
By all means this is an achievable and long-standing way of composting without question.

The difference is the elongated amount of time it takes due to it being a closed/controlled system vs allowing mass species of organisms to penetrate that will increase the rate of decomposition is substantial!
Plus you will have fresh compost to top dress the garden with that’s already inoculated and thriving with trillions of ‘local’ bacteria and fungi, that will be harmonious with your garden’s soil life.

The only difference in my experience is the time it takes.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Lou