What is a personal attack?

[Second Summer]

I thought this might be a worthwhile discussion to have:

How would you define a personal attack in the context of online discussion? In the shortest possible way which still covers all or most of the cases, and can be easily understood by most people who read it?

(If there are any good insights here, I might include it in our rules.)

 

[beancounter]

Sneaky/subtle/underhanded/passive aggressive language used to shame, embarrass or threaten in an attempt to stop someone from expressing their opinion should also be included.

It's not always easy to identify, as people have gotten quite skilled at avoiding violating the letter of the law. However intent should be considered within the context of the statement made.

 

[beancounter]

From the Internet:

Fallacy: Personal Attack

Not directly related, but on those who've mastered disguising attacks:
Workplace Dangers - Manipulative people ~ Business Women's Finishing School & Social Club

http://www.deliberateblog.com/2013/05/02/how-to-disarm-a-passive-aggressive-douchebag/

 

[Blues]

Trouble with message boards and at times over looked, is they (the net in general) is a very poor medium to communicate . Especially when you have different cultures communicating , one statement could be o/k in one country but viewed /interpreted differently in another country .

Some communicate better than others on the net .

 

[Moll Flanders]

How do you know if your posts have been deleted on VV? I've never thought to check if any of mine have. Why would anybody want to delete my words of wisdom anyway?!

 

[Second Summer]

How do you know if your posts have been deleted on VV? I've never thought to check if any of mine have. Why would anybody want to delete my words of wisdom anyway?!

You'll usually get an alert that says the post was deleted and a very brief explanation as to why.

 

[Spang]

I think it's important to be critical of moderators without it being considered a personal attack.

 

[Mischief]

Well, my posts in this thread were deleted, not for being a personal attack, but for being off topic.

I'm still scratching my head as to how my pointing out that one needs only to read one moderator's posts to see some examples of personal attacks is "off topic."

 

[Moll Flanders]

I think it's important to be critical of moderators without it being considered a personal attack.

I agree that being a mod isn't some type of special honour and they should be able to accept criticism. It reminds me of being at school when everybody got a turn to be the class prefect, but some of the girls took it really seriously.

I'm not sure if prefect is just a British word - (in some schools) a senior pupil who is authorized to enforce discipline.

I am almost certain that I haven't ever reported a post on VV, no matter how much some of the things annoy me or felt like a personal attack as I feel really immature doing it as it feels like a kid running to a teacher.

I would have thought that personal attacks should just be decided by the mods at the time, rather than by the amount of people that report a post.

This subject is making me wonder/feel paranoid if my posts get reported a lot!

 

[Andy_T]

I think it's important to be critical of moderators without it being considered a personal attack.

I agree! So make sure to voice your criticism in a way that does not get perceived as personal attack ...

 

[KLS52]

Well, my posts in this thread were deleted, not for being a personal attack, but for being off topic.

I'm still scratching my head as to how my pointing out that one needs only to read one moderator's posts to see some examples of personal attacks is "off topic."

Hmmm...that is puzzling. I could see if they were, rather, deleted because pointing out that someone's posts are examples of personal attacks might be perceived as a personal attack, lol.

 

[Andy_T]

I could see if they were, rather, deleted because pointing out that someone's posts are examples of personal attacks might be perceived as a personal attack, lol.

I would say - having read Mischief's deleted posts - that indeed, pointing out that user x often personally attacks other users is not a valid answer to the question "What constitutes a personal attack" and as such "off topic".

 

[Second Summer]

My take-home from the thread so far is that few of you have any clear idea what a personal attack is!

So getting back more to the topic:

There are different classes of personal attacks - most of these are from the Wikipedia page on Ad hominem :

1) Abusive: The obvious "you're a dumbass / [other negative word]" is almost always a personal attack.
2) Appeal to hypocrisy: E.g. pointing out that the poster is acting inconsistent with their argument. E.g pointing our previous posts where the person has argued differently.
3) Appeal to the circumstances or supposed bias of the poster can be a personal attack.
4) Arguments that try to show guilt by association can be a personal attack.

 

[Andy_T]

My take-home from the thread so far is that few of you have any clear idea what a personal attack is!

More correct (to me) would be that few of us felled compelled to spell out what we think a personal attack is, after some examples already had been given.

 

[Moll Flanders]

I personally don't think that posts should be deleted if they go off topic (unless it goes on for pages and pages, obviously) as sometimes off topic posts have some interesting points. Lots of posts on the General Discussion part of the forum go off topic at times anyway, so it doesn't seem very consistent for the mods to just delete some posts and not others.

There are different classes of personal attacks - most of these are from the Wikipedia page on Ad hominem :

1) The obvious "you're a dumbass / [other negative word]" is almost always a personal attack.
2) Appeal to hypocrisy: E.g. pointing out that the poster is acting inconsistent with their argument. E.g pointing our previous posts where the person has argued differently.
3) Appeal to the circumstances or supposed bias of the poster can be a personal attack.
4) Arguments that try to show guilt by association can be a personal attack.

If 2, 3 and 4 were all classed as personal attacks, I don't think there would be much discussion on this forum at all!

 

[Andy_T]

Moll, mind that 3) and 4) read "CAN be a personal attack".

But, if you were not such a superficial person and had read the whole thread, you would likely understand that.

Spoiler

I did that on purpose, Moll, to give an example of a personal attack

 

[Mischief]

Why would no. 2 be a personal attack per se? Wouldn't it depend on how it was worded?

 

[Mischief]

Sneaky/subtle/underhanded/passive aggressive language used to shame, embarrass or threaten in an attempt to stop someone from expressing their opinion should also be included.

Would posting: TRIGGER WARNING all over one's posts be an example of this?

 

[Andy_T]

I agree with Mischief on 2) ... this would not be "appeal to hypocrisy" but rather "pointing out hypocrisy" if we were pointing out that a person posted something that was inconsistent with his/her other actions....

 

[Andy_T]

Sneaky/subtle/underhanded/passive aggressive language used to shame, embarrass or threaten in an attempt to stop someone from expressing their opinion should also be included.

Re-reading that it would seem that this is the normal way to discuss with a Trump supporter...

For example, if I asked Mr. Trump, under which circumstances he would feel it acceptable to grab a woman by the p*****, it would be considered a "personal attack" on my part, as I clearly try to shame him into stopping to express his opinion?

Just asking.....