What happens when you put good people in an evil place?

Ann Chovie

Ploughing my own furrow
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The Stanford Prison experiment.

A Simulation Study of the Psychology of Imprisonment

Conducted at Stanford University

Welcome to the Stanford Prison Experiment web site, which features an extensive slide show and information about this classic psychology experiment, including parallels with the abuse of prisoners at Abu Ghraib. What happens when you put good people in an evil place? Does humanity win over evil, or does evil triumph? These are some of the questions we posed in this dramatic simulation of prison life conducted in the summer of 1971 at Stanford University.
How we went about testing these questions and what we found may astound you. Our planned two-week investigation into the psychology of prison life had to be ended prematurely after only six days because of what the situation was doing to the college students who participated. In only a few days, our guards became sadistic and our prisoners became depressed and showed signs of severe stress.

www.prisonexp.org/‎




A fascinating study, later dramatised in the film 'The Experiment' which raises uncomfortable questions for those of us who consider ourselves 'good people',

Can we confidently predict how we would react if we were the prisoner? Would we remain survile, polite, and obedient even when subjected to continued brutality?

And can we say with any certainty that we would remain respectful, fair and just, when our own safety depended on our adherence to the brutal regime enforced by other guards?
 
It was an interesting experiment, which probably did reflect some of the goings on in prisons, but at the end of the day it was just an experiment, and the participants did know it was an experiment, so that does have some effect on what happened. Was it five days they lasted? Prisoners, and guards would expect to be in these situations for years; five days is nothing really.
 
I believe that being in a negative environment definitely rubs off on you and has an effect. It is just so stressful, and the stress is toxic, and interferes with your thought processes and changes them, and interferes with moods. It can change a person's personality, and it takes a pretty strong person to be able to withstand it- many cannot.
 
I've heard of this experiment. I've wondered myself who I would be in another time and place. I sometimes look at some people around me and wonder about them also.
 
It was an interesting experiment, which probably did reflect some of the goings on in prisons, but at the end of the day it was just an experiment, and the participants did know it was an experiment, so that does have some effect on what happened. Was it five days they lasted? Prisoners, and guards would expect to be in these situations for years; five days is nothing really.

I understand that it had been scheduled for two weeks and was stopped after only six days due to the level of dissent and brutality.
 
It was an interesting experiment, which probably did reflect some of the goings on in prisons, but at the end of the day it was just an experiment, and the participants did know it was an experiment, so that does have some effect on what happened. Was it five days they lasted? Prisoners, and guards would expect to be in these situations for years; five days is nothing really.

yes it was a very unnatural enviroment (if imprisonment can ever be said to be natural anyway) I was pondering about whether the participants were caught up in the sensationalism of the event and were in fact 'playing up' to the expectations of the researchers.

And if not..would those capable of geniune brutality feel confidence in unleashing it knowing that after two weeks they would be released?They did not fear possible reprisal for their actions as would be the case for longterm prisoners and guards.The worse that would happen was that the experiment would be stopped. So the whole experiment could have developed a kind of 'party' feel in that they could just run rampant and exhibit any behaviour they chose even if it was alien to their normal behaviour safe in the knowlege that there would be no punishment.

A bit like..in the case of that televised experiment where they left a group of boys (I think they were about 10 years of age) to look after themselves and keep house without adults for a week. I remember they never washed or slept and spent their allowance on chocolate!!! They also trashed the property with complete disregard for the consequences in a frenzy of destruction.

I am not so sure that they would have risked the same at home with their parents away and the expectations of long term reprisals such a grounding and loss of pocket money!!!;)
 
They could have done similar research with veterans too.

Umm ..thats a thought.
So.. if the purpose of the original experiment was to prove that 'good people ' can be influenced both by their enviroment and their peers to do 'evil' things. And the group they chose was students with no recorded history of violence or brutality.

Then ..How interesting it would be to carry out the experiment on veterans. How would they react to being placed in positions of power or obedience ? Would they be so desensitised to violence they would exhibit brutality in both roles? Or would those in the role of prisoner be more able to deal with the brutality of the guards having already been trained to accept orders without question ?
 
Umm ..thats a thought.
So.. if the purpose of the original experiment was to prove that 'good people ' can be influenced both by their enviroment and their peers to do 'evil' things. And the group they chose was students with no recorded history of violence or brutality.

Then ..How interesting it would be to carry out the experiment on veterans. How would they react to being placed in positions of power or obedience ? Would they be so desensitised to violence they would exhibit brutality in both roles? Or would those in the role of prisoner be more able to deal with the brutality of the guards having already been trained to accept orders without question ?

You took that an entirely different direction than what I was thinking of - but those are indeed interesting questions as well. I was going more along the lines of taking the premise: What happens when you put good people in an evil place? And conducting the observations on young men and women exposed to the horrors of the battlefield, rather than a prison. It seems to me that an otherwise 'good' person - perhaps docile in society, may become - as a result of experiencing wartime scenarios, negatively influenced - to the point of them performing acts of evil. In particular, I'm recalling stories of men drafted into service - not there by choice - undergoing a personality transformation as a result of the violent environment they have become a part of.

So...it's taking the premise in an entirely different direction - one that would be difficult to conduct a study on in real time.
 
FYI, the Science Fiction novel "Glasshouse", by Charles Stross, is basically the Stanford prison experiment in a society where gender is normally pretty much meaningless.

It's a good example of SF examining questions that would be hard to do otherwise. Also has a few other interesting bits.