Health Issues Vegans-Risks of depression & anxiety

[IndianVegan]

Vegans face significantly higher risks of depression, anxiety, etc. -- New research

“People following vegan diets face significantly higher risks of depression, anxiety, and other mental health challenges than their omnivorous counterparts.”

The unexpected mental health consequences of veganism, according to medical research

What do you guys think?

 

[Lou]

The article is well researched and written. I haven't heard about the Magazine Veg Out before so I did a little research and discovered that is is 10 years old and has a print magazine that comes out quarterly.- I was surprised by both discoveries. Mainly because I don't think I ever heard of them before. Not that I need any more newsletters but I went ahead answer subscribed to theirs.

Two other things surprised me about the article. I thought it could have been longer, deeper and more detailed. The author had the research so why not. Maybe it was an editorial decision. I'll have to look and see if most Veg Out articles are on the short side.

The most surprising thing is that the article was focused on the nutritional aspects of the vegan diet. Granted they are important but if you are writing about depression and anxiety I would think you would concentrate more on the psychological aspects. Like how vegans can feel they are more isolated or disliked.

I was not surprised that the author brought up reverse causation. That people with eating disorders may be attracted to veganism. I started hearing about this years ago when hearing that teenagers were using veganism as a mask for eating disorders., which the author brought up as well.

Anyway. Good article. lots of facts and ideas vegans should know about. I think the article could have benefited by being more detailed but maybe the author was working with a word limit.

 

[IndianVegan]

Is a person's psychological well-being more important than the life of an innocent animal? This is a more important question.

 

[Lou]

That is a good question and I doubt if there is a good answer.

A lot of vegans are Utilitarian. and if we lean on Utilitarianism to provide an answer, you would have to come up with what provides the greater good.

A utilitarian might say that if a vegan becomes incapacitated by depression or anxiety he can no longer help any animals. Also he might damage the reputation of vegans in general. (i.e. Don't become vegan it will make you depressed like That Guy)

However I don't think we have to answer that question just look for mitigating solutions.
In the article they spoke of vitamin and mineral deficiencies. So let's make sure we don't have any. Eating right is always the best solution but if that fails maybe bottle of vitamin will do the trick.

The article also brought up eating disorders. So we must advise people with eating disorders not to start veganism except under medical supervision. (not a big deal - they should go into therapy regardless

the article did not bring up other things like social isolation and society's prejudice. so I guess its up to each vegan to address those issues to the best of their ability.

I don't think its like we vegans need to sacrifice or risk our mental health for the animals.

 

[Freesia]

I disagree. Or perhaps a false equivalency .

 

[Lou]

I disagree. Or perhaps a false equivalency .

please explain

 

[fakei]

Is a person's psychological well-being more important than the life of an innocent animal? This is a more important question.

Without having read the article, there are others, like how reliable are the conclusions? Always associated consuming animal products with anxiety and depression and other emotional problems, and the absence with the opposite, from personal experience, and from observing consumers of animal products around me. From personal experience, plant based diet provides a deep feeling of wellness which was always one of the driving forces to want to go back. Unless one does crappy diet, consumes a lot of unhealthy foods like sugar that can cause body imbalance and will affect emotions.

 

[fakei]

Or, the extended version discussing depression and anxiety.

 

[Tom L.]

Thanks for posting this, @IndianVegan ! However... I do not believe it's necessary to choose between an innocent animal's life or happiness.

 

[Lou]

Without having read the article, there are others, like how reliable are the conclusions?

obvious answer: read the article.
I actually commented in this thread that it's a short article. Maybe even too short
I also said I was surprised that focus on the article was not psychology but nutrition.

 

[fakei]

obvious answer: read the article.
I actually commented in this thread that it's a short article. Maybe even too short
I also said I was surprised that focus on the article was not psychology but nutrition.

Don't need, since even without ever having been diagnosed depression, the time I had the symptoms of what might have been depression, was before starting to practice strict vegetarianism and having been on and off for some years also helped me see the negative effects of consuming animal products on mental issues. In fact one of the reasons for eventually giving up animal products completely was the negative impact on meditation.

Besides, as you can see in the videos above, Dr. Neal Barnard came to the opposite conclusion.

 

[Lou]

Besides, as you can see in the videos above, Dr. Neal Barnard came to the opposite conclusion.

See this is the problem with not reading the article but still drawing concusions. The conclusions of Dr. B and the author of the VegOut article are not opposite.
The VegOut article points out some cautions. Specifically about vegan diets sometimes being deficient in certain micronutrients that may play a role in mental health. Dr. B. actually says almost the same thing about non vegan diets. Can vegans eat unhealthy? Sure.

 

[fakei]

See this is the problem with not reading the article but still drawing concusions. The conclusions of Dr. B and the author of the VegOut article are not opposite.
The VegOut article points out some cautions. Specifically about vegan diets sometimes being deficient in certain micronutrients that may play a role in mental health. Dr. B. actually says almost the same thing about non vegan diets. Can vegans eat unhealthy? Sure.

I don't think they are saying exactly the same, but maybe being a long time listener of Dr. Barnard makes more present the differences.

They both agree on the importance of B12 supplementation.

Some negative aspects of the article include the inability in the article of distinguishing between vegan diets, what seems to be the fear mongering of not supplementing and then the talk about obsession with healthy eating as something pathological. It's all formulated in a way that looks a bit propagandistic.

It's true however that the different results obtained by Dr Barnard were probably obtained with people who were being advised and it is possible that made a difference.

 

[silva]

Veganism isn't about diet beyond excluding animal products, just as saying omnivore doesn't imply anything beyond the ability to eat anything.
I've known many omnis who ate the same things for every breakfast, lunch, and dinner. I work with people who consider potatoes to be the one vegetable they'll eat.
In other words, these articles would be far more correct if they were about poor dietary choices can lead to poor mental health

 

[fakei]

The mention of orthorexia shows from which camp these studies are coming, the one that wants to normalize standard Western diet as if it was not normalized enough.

It reminds a very sad situation once witnessed of a person who decided to give up sugar and very rightly, since besides being a drug with no nutritional value it depletes the body of vitamins and minerals, the family, however, started treating the person as if she had some mental problem. It's really strange when you realise you live in a world where the wrong is the normal and people who try to do the right, that is the rational, are labelled mentally ill.

It's obviously a fallacy to say that zeal in healthy eating is pathologic since if you only eat healthy what detrimental effect does it have to your health?

There may be of course misguided pursuit of healthy eating and that would be when people legitimately concerned with their health follow wrong theories and information. Like two persons who told me once you only need the egg whites and can throw the yolk to the garbage because in the whites is where to protein is. Obviously it is ignorance that drives people who think like this to exclude the part where vitamins and minerals are and to load themselves with excessive protein.

 

[fakei]

The video below is an interview with psychologist Angela Crawford who surveyed vegans about psychological dietary impact. To the mention about benefits at the spiritual level could add the case of a relative who lived with a strict vegetarian Catholic monastic order and reported benefits too, or Plutarch.

 

[Lou]

It's obviously a fallacy to say that zeal in healthy eating is pathologic since if you only eat healthy what detrimental effect does it have to your health?

I think when they talk about orthorexia and veganism, it's usually having to do with the young girls who are masking or trying to camouflage their anorexia. This is not common but it happens enough to spawn a few medical journal articles. it's something now included in health care training. It's not the veganism that is the problem. It's the person's relationship with food that is the problem.

It's good to be a little underweight. But young women need to be careful.

 

[fakei]

I think when they talk about orthorexia and veganism, it's usually having to do with the young girls who are masking or trying to camouflage their anorexia. This is not common but it happens enough to spawn a few medical journal articles. it's something now included in health care training. It's not the veganism that is the problem. It's the person's relationship with food that is the problem.

It's good to be a little underweight. But young women need to be careful.

Thanks didn't know about that particular situation.

There can be other reasons like very restrictive diets and theories. Anti-nutritarianism taken to the extreme can lead to the absence of nutrients that are important and may lead to death and is something vegans may be exposed to, and I get the impression the parents of a vegan baby I read about who died may have been exposed to this. But the thing is, if people get bad results in nutrition by following the wrong advice of experts, this doesn't look like a disorder on its own, although there may be or not other disorders involved.

There can also be conflation with ideas from other camps like fasting, ascetic living, etc., which affect eating, but are not exactly in the domain of healthy eating.

It still looks like a red flag in the article because orthorexia is not even an accepted disorder and is used by people who oppose certain diets including vegetarianism and veganism.

BTW- by anti-nutritarianism I mean people who advocate not caring the least about nutrients, like you can eat only white rice if you like that your body will take care of the rest. Notice the difference from don't supplement beyond B12 if you don't want but then you need to consume whole grains, beans, vegetables and other nutrient rich foods or as an alternative fortified ones.

 

[Lou]

There is so much disinformation in the nutrition field. Some of it comes from just misunderstanding or a level of igonrance. in some cases I suspect maliciousness. And of course there is some that comes from "for profit" And there is some stuff that is just crazy.

And it seems like it's getting harder to figure out which crazy idea is bad for you.

Tom Brady follows a restrictive diet. There is a whole list of vegetables he won't eat. Since he won't eat anything in the nightshade family that means no tomatoes, eggplants or potatoes. But he seems to be doing more than fine. There is even some science that seems to back up his crazy claims

Dr. Grundy also has some science to back up his crazy claims.

But you can't judge a diet because it's restrictive. It seems like Socarates got it right again. Everything in moderation - even moderation

 

[fakei]

There is so much disinformation in the nutrition field. Some of it comes from just misunderstanding or a level of igonrance. in some cases I suspect maliciousness. And of course there is some that comes from "for profit" And there is some stuff that is just crazy.

And it seems like it's getting harder to figure out which crazy idea is bad for you.

Tom Brady follows a restrictive diet. There is a whole list of vegetables he won't eat. Since he won't eat anything in the nightshade family that means no tomatoes, eggplants or potatoes. But he seems to be doing more than fine. There is even some science that seems to back up his crazy claims

Dr. Grundy also has some science to back up his crazy claims.

But you can't judge a diet because it's restrictive. It seems like Socarates got it right again. Everything in moderation - even moderation

Agreed. Dietary restrictions are only a problem if they suppress a nutrient that can cause a serious disease or death, outside of that a lot is myths and theories that not necessarily apply to practice.

As an example, when I started giving up animal products whole proteins was big worry. These last five years or more, can't remember exactly, have been the longest run without animal products, but, unlike previous attempts, whole proteins have been almost absent, soy is very rare, possibly only once had a soy drink in the last year, nuts a bit more common but not even on a daily base, consumed only for the fat and could perfectly go without, whole grains and beans have been the main source of protein, the only thing that is difficult to skip eventually is a tablespoon of flaxseed oil. Whole protein is a complete myth.

And even before that, in the preceding vegetarian period, until eleven years ago, animal products mostly eggs or small amounts of cheese were only a supplement, whole grains and legumes were the main source of protein.