Veganism-Vit B12 Deficiency

[Elonya]

My brother has been a vegan from his mid teen years. He is now in his mid fifties and experiencing some memory loss/"dementia." Conventional medicine attributes this to nutritional deprivation of vitamin B12.
That I am not too convinced about. Is there any empirical data to prove that vegans suffer early dementia from b12 insufficiency.

 

[Poppy]

Tests can determine whether or not he has a B12 deficiency. Most vegans these days supplement or eat b12 fortified foods in order to prevent problems.

Memory loss and dementia can be caused by a lot of different things. A full blood panel sounds like it is in order.

 

[Kellyr]

https://nutritionfacts.org/2011/08/25/vegan-b12-deficiency-putting-it-into-perspective/

 

[David3]

Since the year 1976 (and possibly earlier) the Vegan Society has advised vegans to take B12 supplements (see minutes 4:56 - 5:14 of this Vegan Society video):

(Side note: The Vegan Society's recommended diet in 1976 was similar to what is recommended now: Cereals (grains), pulses (beans and lentils), nuts, fruits, and vegetables.).

Certain "fringe" (forgive the term) parts of the vegan community have, unfortunately, told people that B12 supplementation is unnecessary. However, the mainstream vegan community, and its representative organizations (EarthSave, the PCRM, and others) have advised vegans to take B12 for the past 30+ years.

Yes, there are peer-reviewed studies which state that B12 deficiency can lead to cognitive problems. Here are studies from the peer-reviewed American Journal of Clinical Nutrition (see links below):

Vitamin B-12 status in infancy is positively associated with development and cognitive functioning 5 y later in Nepalese children - PubMed

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Vitamin B-12 status and neurologic function in older people: a cross-sectional analysis of baseline trial data from the Older People and Enhanced Neurological Function (OPEN) study

ABSTRACT. Background: Aging is associated with a progressive decline in vitamin B-12 status. Overt vitamin B-12 deficiency causes neurologic disturbances in per

academic.oup.com

Vitamin B-12 concentration, memory performance, and hippocampal structure in patients with mild cognitive impairment

ABSTRACT. Background: Low-normal concentrations of vitamin B-12 (VitB12) may be associated with worse cognition. However, previous evidence has been mixed, and

academic.oup.com

Vitamin B12 deficiency is not a "vegan problem". According to the U.S. National Institutes of Health, between 1.5% and 15% of the American public is affected by vitamin B12 deficiency: https://ods.od.nih.gov/pdf/factsheets/VitaminB12-Consumer.pdf .

 

[silva]

My brother has been a vegan from his mid teen years. He is now in his mid fifties and experiencing some memory loss/"dementia." Conventional medicine attributes this to nutritional deprivation of vitamin B12.
That I am not too convinced about. Is there any empirical data to prove that vegans suffer early dementia from b12 insufficiency.

All you have to ask is was he supplementing B12!
No, you don't get b12 from whole plant foods, and while many processed foods are supplemented, it's usually in small enough amounts that would need to be had on a daily basis. Sanitation is paramount to eating dirt....

Vitamin B12: All Your Questions Answered - Forks Over Knives

www.forksoverknives.com

I take 2000 twice a week of cyanocobalimin as it's more stable. Some people have a genetic mutation that requires them to need a methylated B12 and/or folate, so they need methycobalimin. I would expect him to be tested for both B12 (with the proper test) as well as the MTHFR gene

Preventing Brain Loss with B Vitamins?

nutritionfacts.org

MTHFR & Vitamin B12 - What you need to know first for MTHFR

mthfrgenehealth.com

On a side note, I also take algae DHA and D

 

[Second Summer]

All you have to ask is was he supplementing B12!

I've read that as we age, the ability to absorb B12 is weakened, so even if you're supplementing you may experience deficiency. I believe larger doses or a different kind of a B12 or B12 injections are the potential solutions.

 

[MoreGreens]

Per healthline.com
Alzheimer’s disease is responsible for about 50 to 70 percent of all cases of dementia.
Other causes of dementia include:

• infections, such as HIV
• vascular diseases
• stroke
• depression
• chronic drug use

And, let's not forget male menopause. Your brother could be suffering cognitive impairment, which women are much more open about experiencing.

Andropause and Its Effect on Cognitive Function - Andromenopause

www.andromenopause.com

All that aside, I hope he ate fortified foods and/or took a B-12 supplement.

 

[silva]

My brother has been a vegan from his mid teen years. He is now in his mid fifties and experiencing some memory loss/"dementia." Conventional medicine attributes this to nutritional deprivation of vitamin B12.
That I am not too convinced about. Is there any empirical data to prove that vegans suffer early dementia from b12 insufficiency.

Has he been TESTED?

The New Vitamin B12 Deficiency Test

 

[Urban Gardener]

As I got older, my body stopped absorbing B-12 supplements and synthetic additives as well. I wound up with a deficiency and had to start eating some meat. Eating a small amount of meat two or three times a month fixed it. But then I wound up with the effects of eating meat, and all the obvious concerns about it.

I've stopped eating meat again and I'm exploring effective ways to get enough B-12. Injections seem like a decent option to consider. I also don't beat myself up if I have to eat an egg or some fish occasionally. We all have to take care of our health. I identify as "as-plant-based-as-possible, preferably vegan." It's ok for it to be a work in progress until it works.

Anyway, just encourage him to get good medical care, and be a good support system. He needs to find out what's going on. There are a lot of possible causes for what you described.

 

[silva]

As I got older, my body stopped absorbing B-12 supplements and synthetic additives as well. I wound up with a deficiency and had to start eating some meat. Eating a small amount of meat two or three times a month fixed it. But then I wound up with the effects of eating meat, and all the obvious concerns about it.

I've stopped eating meat again and I'm exploring effective ways to get enough B-12. Injections seem like a decent option to consider. I also don't beat myself up if I have to eat an egg or some fish occasionally. We all have to take care of our health. I identify as "as-plant-based-as-possible, preferably vegan." It's ok for it to be a work in progress until it works.

Anyway, just encourage him to get good medical care, and be a good support system. He needs to find out what's going on. There are a lot of possible causes for what you described.

Not all the tests avalable for B12 have been reliable-

The New Vitamin B12 Deficiency Test

What type, and how much, B12? Cyanocobalim has been shown to be the most stable, so if it says it's 2000 mcg. you know you're getting 2000 mcg.

Vitamin B12: The Latest Research | NutritionFacts.org

The other possibility is you have the genetic MFTHR mutation-

Association between MTHFR 677C>T Polymorphism and Vitamin B12 Deficiency: A Case-control Study - PMC

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[Second Summer]

As I got older, my body stopped absorbing B-12 supplements and synthetic additives as well.

I heard that is a thing, definitely. Loss of the so-called (gastric) intrinsic factor (a special protein produced in the stomach) can lead to B12 deficiency.

 

[Urban Gardener]

I was never officially diagnosed with a B12 deficiency. It's just an educated guess. I was uninsured at the time.

I think it was partly situational. I now have access to better food options and more time for cooking, so I'm revamping my diet and making it more plant-centric again.

But I have heard of other people dealing with the same thing - not absorbing synthetic vitamins as well and needing more of their nutrition to come from whole foods.

 

[David3]

As I got older, my body stopped absorbing B-12 supplements and synthetic additives as well. I wound up with a deficiency and had to start eating some meat. Eating a small amount of meat two or three times a month fixed it. But then I wound up with the effects of eating meat, and all the obvious concerns about it.

I've stopped eating meat again and I'm exploring effective ways to get enough B-12. Injections seem like a decent option to consider. I also don't beat myself up if I have to eat an egg or some fish occasionally. We all have to take care of our health. I identify as "as-plant-based-as-possible, preferably vegan." It's ok for it to be a work in progress until it works.

Anyway, just encourage him to get good medical care, and be a good support system. He needs to find out what's going on. There are a lot of possible causes for what you described.

.
Eating a small amount of meat 2 or 3 times a month will not fix a vitamin B12 deficiency. 100 grams (about 1/4 pound) of beef contains less than a single day's supply of vitamin B12: Nutrition facts for Beef, raw, ground, grass-fed, recommended daily values and analysis. This approach is ineffective - please don't encourage it on this forum.

Per the U.S. National Institutes of Health, vitamin B12 absorption problems are treated with B12 injections (since this bypasses the absorption process), or with high oral doses of vitamin B12: Office of Dietary Supplements - Vitamin B12 . Your physician or Registered Dietitian can provide these.

.

 

[Urban Gardener]

I don't mean to encourage anything irresponsible.

Anyone can wind up uninsured and without access to medical care due to circumstances beyond their control (in the US). I was just doing the best that I could, given that situation.

 

[silva]

I was never officially diagnosed with a B12 deficiency. It's just an educated guess. I was uninsured at the time.

I think it was partly situational. I now have access to better food options and more time for cooking, so I'm revamping my diet and making it more plant-centric again.

But I have heard of other people dealing with the same thing - not absorbing synthetic vitamins as well and needing more of their nutrition to come from whole foods.

There hasn't been any evidence that obtaining B12 from an animal consuming it is any different from taking it directly. What can cause deficiency is malabsorption,intrinsic factors, which are bypassed by injections or nasal gels- or taking cyanocobalimin and having the mfthr mutation, which is easily remedied with methylcobalimin
B12 deficiency isn't an "educated guess" unless you were never supplementing
I take 2500 mcg once a week of cyano myself

 

[David3]

I don't mean to encourage anything irresponsible.

Anyone can wind up uninsured and without access to medical care due to circumstances beyond their control (in the US). I was just doing the best that I could, given that situation.

No problem. Please don't take offense. However, please realize that new vegans come to this forum for solid, evidence-based nutrition information.
.

 

[Urban Gardener]

Of course. I was just speaking anecdotally about my own life and I have no intention of confusing that with evidence-based nutritional information from reputable scientific sources.

 

[SapphireLightning]

Also, don't forget that most of the b12 you would be getting from factory farmed animals would be from the cyanocobalamin supplements that they feed to the animals. Heck, most "grass fed" animals are fed "grass pellets" in CAFOs, and need the b12 supplements as well.
Animals do not produce b12, bacteria does.

 

[Raven]

I tested positive for lack of intrinsic factor in a blood test a couple of years ago but my B12 levels are fine and hopefully they stay that way.

 

[Urban Gardener]

Also, don't forget that most of the b12 you would be getting from factory farmed animals would be from the cyanocobalamin supplements that they feed to the animals. Heck, most "grass fed" animals are fed "grass pellets" in CAFOs, and need the b12 supplements as well.
Animals do not produce b12, bacteria does.

Right. I haven't eaten anything factory-farmed since '93.

I have been dealing with some health issues unrelated to diet as well as some awful circumstances due to the associated stigma.

My food options were limited for a while, so I just did what I needed to to get healthier and into a better situation.

I have no intention of advocating anything unhealthy or harmful to animals.