CA Vegan whole food protein V meat replacements

PhoenixFire

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Hello folks,

How are you?

I am transitioning back to veganism but this time I want mostly healthy and natural/whole foods, and I am looking for some that have almost as much as the meat replacements if not more.

How can I keep eating enough protein without resorting to eating processed foods?
 
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Lou

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Before I try to answer your question I would like to take a minute to explain that you probably don't need as much protein as you think you do. Almost everyone I talk to overestimates their protein requirements. And not by a little. by two or three times. Thank the supplement industry and the livestock industry for the propaganda.

Although it varies depending on a few variables, you can usually figure that for every kilogram you weigh you need .8 gram of protein. Athletes do need more. Up to twice the amount for a regular person. In the USA we use
.36g per pound for regular people. and a much as .77g per pound for weight lifters.

You can also calculate your protein requirements as a function of your calorie intake.
Carbs - 50 - 60%
Protein - 10 - 20%
Fat - less than 30 percent.

Many dieticians go with the 60/20/20 rule

This works for athletes too. cause as your calorie intake goes up your protein goes up with it. An athlete can get a lot of protein simply by eating a lot of food. No need for supplements.

The Zone, a nutrition program developed in conjunction with the Stanford Swim Team put it at 40/30/30

anyway, sorry for the long diversion. If you read the Protein for Vegetarians article one of the point he makes is that if you eat enough calories you will get enough protein. And it almost doesn't matter what plant foods you eat. although you can get enough protein if you ate 2000 calories of lettuce - who could do that?

there are lots of other nutrients that are important besides protein. I can't remember why but we should balance our fat and protein intake (something about metabolism). And although leafy veggies, starchy vegetables, and fruits don't have a lot of protein per serving they have lots of the vitamins and minerals we need.

Now to actually answer your question. Beans, grains, nuts, and seeds are your most protein-rich plant-based foods. Tofu, tempeh, and endgame are the best.



------------
Sources
-https://www.verywellfit.com/how-to-calculate-how-much-protein-you-need-3955709

-https://wa.kaiserpermanente.org/healthAndWellness?item=%2Fcommon%2FhealthAndWellness%2Fconditions%2Fdiabetes%2FfoodBalancing.html

-https://www.foodnetwork.com/healthyeats/diets/2010/01/diet-101-the-zone-diet-a-k-a-40-30-30-diet

-https://michaelbluejay.com/veg/protein.html

-https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/321474#15-best-vegan-proteins
 

David3

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Hi PhoenixFire,

Per the American Council on Exercise (one of the largest certification agencies for personal fitness trainers) vegetarian diets typically include sufficient protein: Are vegetarian diets safe?

The United Nations World Health Organization (WHO) has published an exhaustive report on human dietary protein requirements: https://apps.who.int/iris/bitstream/handle/10665/43411/WHO_TRS_935_eng.pdf?ua=1 . Page 126 of the report summarizes the protein recommendations of the WHO: 0.83 gram of protein per kilogram of lean body weight. For a 60 kilogram woman, this works out to 50 grams of protein per day. For athletes, for injury recover, and for pregnant/nursing women, the number would be somewhat higher. 50 grams of protein per day can easily be achieved by eating a diet of natural/whole foods.

By including beans, peas, or tofu as part of each meal, you will meet your protein requirements:

1 cup of boiled lentils (volume after cooking) contains about 18 grams of protein: Lentils, mature seeds, cooked, boiled, without salt Nutrition Facts & Calories

1 cup of tofu contains about 20 grams of protein: protein 1 cup tofu - Google Search

1 cup of cooked split peas (volume after cooking) contains about 16 grams of protein: Peas, split, mature seeds, cooked, boiled, without salt Nutrition Facts & Calories

Whole grains, nuts, and seeds also contain protein.


Mainstream vegan organizations recommend this approximate ratio of foods:

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thinman

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I have several books by vegan bodybuilders (like Robert Cheeke and friendz), they don't recommend even protein powders, it's just coz of their sponsors. Everything has amino acids but some hard-core vegan bodybuilders will supplement with BCAA's.
 

PhoenixFire

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Thanks for sharing your insights, folks. Lots of great info. I guess I should be more concerned about omega 3 and B12 anyway...
 

Andy_T

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Honestly, if eating lots of protein was the thing that made you "ripped", then the average American on his favourite TV couch would look like Arnold Schwarzenegger, right?

"You need protein" is just as much a product of advertising as "you need milk".

Most "Western" people eat way too much protein (and fat, and carbs) in a single day.
 

Lou

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@PhoenixFire 1 cup of Canadian made Natur-a soy milk has 50% of your B12. Ground flax and chia seed for omega 3


Although most plant milks will contain "50%" you can't absorb that much at one time. To the best of my knowledge, you can only absorb less than a third at each meal. Fortified breakfast cereals will contain B12, too. but don't really add much if you are having them with your plant milk. Many multivitamins have 100% but again don't help much if you take it with your breakfast.

The best bet is to have several "doses" with meals throughout the day.

Which reminds me. The latest research is that protein has an upper limit to absorption and utilization too. Researchers think that it is between 20 and 30 grams per meal. So again the best strategy is to include protein with each meal. (and not rely on big doses from super protein shakes or whatever).
 

David3

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Soymilk, other plant milks (oat milk, almond milk), vegan mock meats, and some prepared breakfast cereals are fortified with vitamin B12. Just check the label.

I think it's easier to just to take a 1000 mcg B12 pill a couple of times per week. These pills are tiny and inexpensive - some are chewable fruit flavored. Amazon carries these - a 2 year supply for $22: Amazon.com: Solgar Vitamin B12 1000 mcg, 250 Nuggets - Supports Production of Energy, Red Blood Cells - Healthy Nervous System - Promotes Cardiovascular Health - Vitamin B - Non-GMO, Gluten Free - 250 Servings: Health & Personal Care . They are cherry flavored - you can chew and swallow, or let them melt in your mouth
 
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Sproutskies

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Garbanzo's (40g per cup) and Hemp seeds (11g per 3 tablespoons) really boost the protein.

It's good to mix up the variety as a general rule. If you are weight training or trying to build muscle it can be a challenge to get the macro's of a typical bodybuilder. The BCAA's will help keep you in an anabolic muscle building state.

The average dietician is not considering the needs of someone who is breaking down their body on a regular basis. Going with a recommended amount of protein will clearly not give you the same results.. Especially if you are on something like a 3-6 day split in the gym. Studies on the detriment of high of protein can be very selective in what factors they choose to look at. Pretty safe staying under the 1g per lbs of lean muscle mass without any fear of shaving off a year or two from your overall lifespan.

Gl!
 

Forest Nymph

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Peas, beans, nuts, "natural" nut butters, whole grains, tofu, and tempeh. Natto if you like it (I tried it and I do like it after YEARS of avoiding it because of other people's opinions). You can also make your own "seitan steaks" at home, it takes work but I've done it before.
 
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David3

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Garbanzo's (40g per cup) and Hemp seeds (11g per 3 tablespoons) really boost the protein.

It's good to mix up the variety as a general rule. If you are weight training or trying to build muscle it can be a challenge to get the macro's of a typical bodybuilder. The BCAA's will help keep you in an anabolic muscle building state.

The average dietician is not considering the needs of someone who is breaking down their body on a regular basis. Going with a recommended amount of protein will clearly not give you the same results.. Especially if you are on something like a 3-6 day split in the gym. Studies on the detriment of high of protein can be very selective in what factors they choose to look at. Pretty safe staying under the 1g per lbs of lean muscle mass without any fear of shaving off a year or two from your overall lifespan.

Gl!
.
The 40 grams of protein is per cup of uncooked garbanzo beans: Chickpeas (garbanzo beans, bengal gram), mature seeds, raw Nutrition Facts & Calories.
Note: Don't eat uncooked beans

Cooked garbanzo beans have 15 grams per cup: Chickpeas (garbanzo beans, bengal gram), mature seeds, cooked, boiled, without salt Nutrition Facts & Calories .

A Registered Dietitian should be able to advise clients who do athletic training. There are RD's who specialize in sports nutrition, also.
.
 

Sproutskies

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The 40 grams of protein is per cup of uncooked garbanzo beans: Chickpeas (garbanzo beans, bengal gram), mature seeds, raw Nutrition Facts & Calories.
Note: Don't eat uncooked beans

Cooked garbanzo beans have 15 grams per cup: Chickpeas (garbanzo beans, bengal gram), mature seeds, cooked, boiled, without salt Nutrition Facts & Calories .

A Registered Dietitian should be able to advise clients who do athletic training. There are RD's who specialize in sports nutrition, also.
.

Yeah, thanks for fact-checking on that. Still a decent source of protein.

Not all RD's are created equal and it definitely helps to find someone knowledgeable in the training you're involved in. Especially when they can deviate from recommended daily value's + personalize to meet your goals. A good investment if you can find someone who is not the cookie-cutter nutritionist.
 

beforewisdom

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Hello folks,

How are you?

I am transitioning back to veganism but this time I want mostly healthy and natural/whole foods, and I am looking for some that have almost as much as the meat replacements if not more.

How can I keep eating enough protein without resorting to eating processed foods?


You aren't.

The most concentrated sources of vegan protein are seitan ( wheat gluten ), tofu ( curdled soy milk ), and the faux meats.

A few decades ago I remember finding something about Joe Weider, the creator of that Bodybuilding and Fitness magazine. It turns out that when he started off he was against protein supplements stating that a human body could only metabolize so much protein ( 20g ) at once. Then he saw dollars in those endless supplements and became a promoter himself. Take all of that with a grain of salt.

It is true you can only use so much protein at a time, per day.

Unless you are looking to be a champion woman bodybuilder you likely do not need a lot of protein.

You should get enough eating legumes, whole grains, nuts, seeds, and traditional soy foods.
 

David3

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Not all RD's are created equal and it definitely helps to find someone knowledgeable in the training you're involved in. Especially when they can deviate from recommended daily value's + personalize to meet your goals. A good investment if you can find someone who is not the cookie-cutter nutritionist.

"Nutritionist" and "Registered Dietitian (RD)" are vastly different professional titles in terms of educational strength.

Per Georgia State University:

"Nutritionists can work in privately owned counseling settings like Herbalife, but unlike RDs, they cannot work in hospitals or clinics to provide nutrition treatment for specific health-related diagnoses. The major difference between nutritionist and RD is their level of education and credentialing. Some nutritionists have gone through formal education such as: an undergraduate degree in dietetics, a certificate from a technical school, or online course. Many also receive certifications to become Certified Nutrition Specialists (CNS) a nationally recognized credential. However, it should be noted that some nutritionists are self-proclaimed nutritionists- meaning they have not endured any means of formal education in nutrition. Additionally, there are no laws against people calling themselves nutritionists, so it can be difficult to determine the level of expertise some nutritionists may have unless they explicitly state it.

To become an RD, one must complete a dietetic internship accredited by The Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics. A dietetic intern is a student completing their dietetic internship. The dietetic internship allows nutrition students to obtain their 1200 supervised practice hours in clinical and community rotation sites to deepen their knowledge in different areas of nutrition. Some internships, also known as Coordinated Programs (CP), are paired with graduate programs so that students can obtain their masters upon completion of the internship. Dietetic internships programs can range from 6 to 24 months depending on if it is paired with a graduate program."

Link: Difference between a Registered Dietitian and Nutritionist - Recreation
 
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David3

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The average dietician is not considering the needs of someone who is breaking down their body on a regular basis. Going with a recommended amount of protein will clearly not give you the same results.. Especially if you are on something like a 3-6 day split in the gym. Studies on the detriment of high of protein can be very selective in what factors they choose to look at. Pretty safe staying under the 1g per lbs of lean muscle mass without any fear of shaving off a year or two from your overall lifespan.

Registered Dietitians are educated/trained to understand the client's health status and physical activity, so that appropriate dietary recommendations can be made.

Please explain your lack of trust for the Registered Dietitian profession.
.
 

Sproutskies

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Please explain your lack of trust for the Registered Dietitian profession.
.

They definitely need to go through many hoops, certification test, graduate school to complete a degree in dietetic sciences in some places. In 2024 it will require graduate level education along with the main certification test in Colorado to work as a registered dietician.. Currently there are no strict standard for having these requirements in my area. Most people will go through school to get a bachelor's and then pass the test. This is great.. but there are an increasing amount of people on the market who get the education, or don't, and then make no effort to expand or go to the default of what constitutes health and a proper diet.

You also see this issue in the medical system with many doctors who gain an education and then lose all motivation + fall into the assembly line mentality to treating the mass of patients in the US. I have met many of these people who are Naturopaths, Nutritionists, Registered Dietitians, Chiropractors (who dole out food/medical advice), .. Often times who will go to the one size fits all recommendations and make no effort to expand their education. More of when you find a good nutritionist and work with them that it can be a rare occurrence.

It's also my issue with government on what constitutes health and standards. The added influence of wealthy lobbyists pushing their agenda to control what the average person should eat.