Vegan But Not Dairy Free?

Lou

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Well, we may need some new labels.

this company is making milk proteins without cows.

"Since these dairy products didn’t involve cow’s in the manufacturing process, just their genetic road map, the company classifies them as animal-free, plant-based, and vegan. But make no mistake, these genetically engineered products are dairy. And even the company confirms that they are not safe for many people with milk-free needs."

 

Lou

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Oh, and here is a question that I hadn't thought of asking.

Our Question: Why Not Human Milk?
Why did Perfect Day choose to create cow’s milk proteins instead of human milk proteins? It’s genetically engineered, so in theory, they should be able to create human milk proteins just as easily as cow’s milk proteins. Human milk protein would not only be a sustainable option, it could also be safe for almost all people, including those with milk allergies or sensitivities. Not to mention, human milk protein would be a more natural fit for our bodies. And it could be used to create medically necessary products, like better infant formulas and nutritional drinks. Is Perfect Day ready to take a bigger step for science and health?

- When Vegan Isn't Dairy-Free: It's the "Perfect Day" for Engineered Food
 

Lou

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Ok. I have been thinking for hours about this...
what would be a good brand name or product name for something made from genetically engineered human milk protein?
 

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Maybe -
Milk For Humans
Real Milk
Safe Milk - animal stuff is dangerous
 

NYC Gardener

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Ok. I have been thinking for hours about this...
what would be a good brand name or product name for something made from genetically engineered human milk protein?

MAMA
Mommy Loves Me
Roboboobilicious
Cyborg Tittilicious

Something about the nectar of futuristic humanoid boobs.
 
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NYC Gardener

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Also, this is bad news for the lactose intolerant (such as your truly). It's not just about sticking to a vegan diet for me. Milk products make me sick. Cheese is the only dairy I can digest.
 
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Lou

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Also, this is bad news for the lactose intolerant (such as your truly). It's not just about sticking to a vegan diet for me. Milk products make me sick. Cheese is the only dairy I can digest.


According to the article, this might be GOOD news for the lactose intolerant. They produce milk proteins NOT milk sugars.

Perfect Day products are also hormone-free, so they are a possibility for consumers seeking dairy without hormones. And they’re lactose-free, since the company is only reproducing the isolated proteins, not the other components in milk. People who currently consume lactose-free products without issue might be fine with dairy products made from Perfect Day milk proteins.​
But if you are allergic or sensitive to cow’s milk protein (casein or whey), Perfect Day states to avoid their products. As always, if you are dairy-free for any medical reason, then you should speak with your physician before considering any product that is labeled as dairy.​
 
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Lou

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Interesting. I think the whole thing is gross, though. I would rather avoid all dairy.
Casein and whey have both been associated with adverse health issues. So It would be a good idea for people concerned about health to avoid these Perfect Day foods. But we often hear that dairy is the hardest thing to give up so it does make some sense to have something that might work as a bridge or a stepping stone from full on omnivore to full on vegan.
 

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I love my oat milk too much now, I'm glad I'm off dairy. Ice cream made from rice and Yoghurt, cream and custard made from soya too.
 
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I think I disagree that this product should be considered vegan. If it's genetically the same as dairy protein, then it's not vegan.

Imagine a future where vegans eat artificially made meat, dairy and eggs. You go into a restaurant and order a vegan burger and milkshake. It looks like, tastes like and smells like a meat burger and dairy milkshake. It is a meat burger, it is a dairy milkshake, yet it's also vegan. Or is it? How can you be sure?

Meanwhile, someone who is "plant-based" will not eat these products. They'll continue to eat traditional vegan food, although they will probably do that for health reasons, not for reasons of compassion or animal rights, so in other respects than diet they don't mind if their lifestyle is terrible to animals.

In this future, will I have to specify that I'm BOTH vegan AND plant-based? It seems wrong that I need use an additional label just to continue the same lifestyle I had before.
 

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I think I disagree that this product should be considered vegan. If it's genetically the same as dairy protein, then it's not vegan.

Imagine a future where vegans eat artificially made meat, dairy and eggs. You go into a restaurant and order a vegan burger and milkshake. It looks like, tastes like and smells like a meat burger and dairy milkshake. It is a meat burger, it is a dairy milkshake, yet it's also vegan. Or is it? How can you be sure?

Meanwhile, someone who is "plant-based" will not eat these products. They'll continue to eat traditional vegan food, although they will probably do that for health reasons, not for reasons of compassion or animal rights, so in other respects than diet they don't mind if their lifestyle is terrible to animals.

In this future, will I have to specify that I'm BOTH vegan AND plant-based? It seems wrong that I need use an additional label just to continue the same lifestyle I had before.

Right. Because the point isn't just to avoid harming animals. It's also based on the idea that eating plants is healthier.
 

Danielle

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If animals aren't being used I'd consider it vegan. Vegans aren't obligated to eat healthier than non vegans.
 
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Indian Summer

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If animals aren't being used I'd consider it vegan. Vegans aren't obligated to eat healthier than non vegans.
What if the food literally was an animal, just that it had been grown in a lab and without a brain, so it couldn't feel pain? Would that be vegan?

It seems that these advances in food science & technology might trigger a split in the vegan community.

Edit: Personally, I would consider these foods a new category which may be ethically sound, but yet not vegan.
 
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Val

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What if the food literally was an animal, just that it had been grown in a lab and without a brain, so it couldn't feel pain? Would that be vegan?

It seems that these advances in food science & technology might trigger a split in the vegan community.

Edit: Personally, I would consider these foods a new category which may be ethically sound, but yet not vegan.
I agree... If to think that "vegan" is a shortened (with the featured meaning) version for vegetarian (i.e. it's a derived term)... and as for "vegetarian",- modern dictionaries explain its origin as a compound of "vegetable" and the suffix "-arian" (in the sense of "agrarian").... then it's clear that even "humane meat" consumption (grown in the lab) still doesn't fit the concept of veganism. Anyways, someone might argue with me. I'm not sure. I wouldn't stuff my face with animal flesh, even if it's artificial and ethical.
It's a little offtopic, but when i hear debates about whether animals are being exploited for artificial lab-grown meat or not,- i always think of aliens and their experiments on humans. People who consider themselves abductees, frequently complain about being taken onboard alien flying crafts or smth. and being examined and so on. Sometimes people are forced to have s€x with otherwordly creatures, sometimes they are inseminated, also, particles of flesh and various types of cells are being taken from humans, sometimes it's just experiments on how a human brain works. It's interesting that even if extraterrestrials tell humans that it's important for them, for the research, or even if they tell humans that humans were "chosen",- poor frightened people still (mostly) think that they were kidnapped (abducted) and consider themselves victims. For aliens, this type of exploitation of humans is pretty acceptable, because no physical harm is being done, or even if it's done during the procedures, humans are not supposed to remember anything afterwards or feel any physical discomfort. But people still freak out about their abductions, and the fact that it was somehow important for extraterrestrials, is a weak condolence for them. The quiestion is: when cells are taken from an animal (in lab conditions),- does the animal like it? Does it feel fear? Does the animal understand that it's being exploited (a.k.a. that something is wrong)? If people think that no harm is done, it doesn't mean that animal's perception of the issue is the same. Like i said, aliens (mostly) treat abductees (and contactees) in a good way, and it's mostly the feeling of humiliation and the sense of being used that bugs people so much (if people still remember anything from their experience). Most of the time, a very minimal physical harm (to a zero harm) is being done to an abducted human. And who forbids an individual to live his normal life after the abduction and forget about it..? Despite that it's clear that experiments and taking samples of bio materials are important for aliens and for their science, people are still walking around and moaning about the injustice that has been done to them. If we question the animal's ability of feeling the fear during lab tests, we question human's ability to consider themselves victims when they are being used by aliens for their purposes. These matters are equal.
Another (deeper) question is: who gave humans the right to play the role of God (a.k.a. creator)? This question will never be answered, and everyone has to decide for himself, i think: to decide where the personal borderline is. I can speak only for myself, and i set the limits for myself (these limits match my moral values, and i'm ok with it). Moral limits of every individual may be different, so the society will never 100% agree on the subject "if lab-grown meat is vegan or not" or even "if lab-grown meat is humane".
 
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Danielle

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What if the food literally was an animal, just that it had been grown in a lab and without a brain, so it couldn't feel pain? Would that be vegan?

It seems that these advances in food science & technology might trigger a split in the vegan community.

Edit: Personally, I would consider these foods a new category which may be ethically sound, but yet not vegan.
No I don’t think so. Sounds awful to think about. People wanting to exploit animals so bad that they create a brainless animal. As long as animals aren’t used I don’t see why it wouldn’t be vegan. What I’m curious about it’s made, and if there is any animal testing they had to do like Impossible Foods did.
 
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Indian Summer

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This question will never be answered, and everyone has to decide for himself, i think: to decide where the personal borderline is. I can speak only for myself, and i set the limits for myself (these limits match my moral values, and i'm ok with it). Moral limits of every individual may be different, so the society will never 100% agree on the subject "if lab-grown meat is vegan or not" or even "if lab-grown meat is humane".
Yes ... But if everyone decides for themselves without any commonly accepted standards/certification schemes, then I'm worried we'll be back to the bad, old days when you have to scrutinize ingredient lists on every item you buy in the grocery shop, maybe having to write letters to the manufacturers, asking to talk to the chef about details when ordering in restaurants and so on.
 

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Yes ... But if everyone decides for themselves without any commonly accepted standards/certification schemes, then I'm worried we'll be back to the bad, old days when you have to scrutinize ingredient lists on every item you buy in the grocery shop, maybe having to write letters to the manufacturers, asking to talk to the chef about details when ordering in restaurants and so on.
When i say that everyone decides for himself,- it's not about good or bad side of this alleged "freedom of choice" (which doesn't exist, sadly). It's about the fact that our society is based on chaos and disobedience to the laws of nature. Humankind has gone the wrong way from the very beginning (in the wrong direction), and the only possible exodus is declination and self-extinction. While everyone has a different opinion on crucilal life&death matters (like non-violence, climate change, human health, etc.),- humankind isn't going anywhere. So i just point at the fact that there is no truth that will suit everyone (therefore this human disagreement and fuss is doing only harm to the planet), and this is the main requirement for the doomsday quick approach.
I hope the way i feel isn't offensive to the way you feel. :hug:
 
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silva

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1: Research has proven that humans thrive without eating animal products
2: Research has proven the harm animal farming does to the environment
3: Raising animals in more environmentally friendly ways is costly
4: The idea of using animals for our own purposes is no more ethical than than how we treated people with mental or physical impairments that keep them from making their own consensual decisions.
Now knowing all of this, why would we perpetuate the idea of animal products being desirable?
This is also why I make such distinctions between plant based foods like Beyond Meat and flesh. They truly are not alike.