Ugh-Vaccines tested on monkeys

[Paxina]

There was an article in the New York Post lately about covid vaccine being delayed because of a monkey shortage. Apparently these monkeys are shipped out from China and used for drug-testing before being killed. China has weak animal protection laws so it is easy for them to breed animals in captivity there.

This got me thinking - do I really want to take a drug or vaccine that has been tested on creatures that cannot give informed consent? I keep thinking of those gross photos of rooms full of dogs smoking in cages. So far I've just been looking at the list of ingredients in a drug or vaccine - that no animal has been used or harmed. But now I'm thinking that I should also look at the testing process. If some helpless animal has been sacrificed or used to test it, how can I ethically accept the drug or vaccine?

 

[NeutronBen]

This is a dilemma every vegan contends with! Unfortunately every licensed medical intervention has been through pre-clinical research which uses animals so there would be little point in denying a drug for that reason. If you follow the "as far as is possibly and practical" approach to veganism then in the absence of an alternative cruelty free vaccine, taking the only available vaccine is the logical thing to do, assuming you are confident it is effective and safe to do so. By not taking it, you could also risk harming others who are medically unable to by inadvertently infecting them.

There are a lot of companies attempting to develop a vaccine and in the interests of speed, a small number of these have bypassed testing the vaccine on animals and gone directly to clinical trials in humans. Getting such a thing past regulators could be challenging though but if successful could lead to change.

 

[Mikkel]

The point is "as long as it's possible". A lot of countries have it as a rule that medcines shal be tested on animals. As long as we don't have vegan vaccines, we vaccinate with that we have avaiable. To be honest, I really don't think it's very ethical to not get your vaccines (also, if people get sick, more medication will be in use that is also tested on animals, more will be made etc).

I'm going to be vaccinated myself. I'm fully vaccinated at this point, and will follow the program as long as I can (meaning as long as I don't have health issues that make it impossible to be vaccinated). I do it for myself, the one I love and for people that can't be vaccinated because of health.

 

[Lettuce20]

Just joined the forum, how is everyone feeling about the vaccines at the moment? I am concerned that as Vegans, who will mostly be opposed to animal testing, we are essentially being forced into one of two scenarios:

1. We take the vaccine in order to be protected from the virus, having to compromise our usual values on animal testing, knowing that doing so is "supporting" the continuation of animal testing by these companies, for subsequent vaccines they produce, and potentially helping to finance the continuation of this.
2. We turn down the vaccine on the basis of our usual values on animal testing, but as a result put ourselves at risk of catching the virus, and spreading it to others.

Neither of these is a great situation for us to be in, either having to deal with the guilt of "supporting" something we normally oppose on this one occasion, or putting ourselves and others at risk if we don't, and this doesn't seem to have been discussed or brought up at all by the mainstream media.

This is something I have been greatly struggling with over the last few weeks, as I can't find any option that seems right for me morally. The best option I can think of so far would be to organise a mass charity donation for vegans, to a charity that protects monkeys, or rescues former lab monkeys, as even if we can't save the ones that were used to make the vaccine, perhaps we can save other monkeys as a way of balancing this out?

I would appreciate opinions from anyone on this, I am fully supportive of both those who have had/ will have the vaccine when offered it, and those who have declined/ will decline for these or other reasons.

Many thanks!

 

[Ahimsa]

There was an article in the New York Post lately about covid vaccine being delayed because of a monkey shortage. Apparently these monkeys are shipped out from China and used for drug-testing before being killed. China has weak animal protection laws so it is easy for them to breed animals in captivity there.

This got me thinking - do I really want to take a drug or vaccine that has been tested on creatures that cannot give informed consent? I keep thinking of those gross photos of rooms full of dogs smoking in cages. So far I've just been looking at the list of ingredients in a drug or vaccine - that no animal has been used or harmed. But now I'm thinking that I should also look at the testing process. If some helpless animal has been sacrificed or used to test it, how can I ethically accept the drug or vaccine?

I agree with you. However, we sometimes have little choice as vegans about the ethical implications of drugs. If you ever go into hospital to be treated for a serious illness, for example, you will almost definitely be given some drug that's been tested on animals. The alternative is perhaps to die, and whether you take the Covid vaccine or not may be a similar choice. In my opinion we have no realistic option, so for now we must get vaccinated and carry on the fight for a more ethical world in which no drugs are tested on non-human animals.

 

[Sax]

They don't test on more animals for each dose dispensed. Whether you get vaccinated or not has no impact on that. And the testing isn't done for profitability, it's a regulatory requirement. So a boycott isn't the right approach IMO.

I wonder what organization would be best to donate to?

 

[Lou]

I posted this article in the Covid thread

Are COVID vaccines vegan? Should I get one anyway? An ethicist explains

And I found this article when I went looking for the first one

Covid-19 vaccines were tested on animals. Vegans should still take them

 

[anarchist100]

There was an article in the New York Post lately about covid vaccine being delayed because of a monkey shortage. Apparently these monkeys are shipped out from China and used for drug-testing before being killed. China has weak animal protection laws so it is easy for them to breed animals in captivity there.

This got me thinking - do I really want to take a drug or vaccine that has been tested on creatures that cannot give informed consent? I keep thinking of those gross photos of rooms full of dogs smoking in cages. So far I've just been looking at the list of ingredients in a drug or vaccine - that no animal has been used or harmed. But now I'm thinking that I should also look at the testing process. If some helpless animal has been sacrificed or used to test it, how can I ethically accept the drug or vaccine?

This is unacceptable! We should refuse to participate in this atrocity!

 

[silva]

Vaccines are tested on animals, but the diseases they protect us from can require many more drugs and procedures that animals are used to produce.
It's much like not wanting to kill insects--if they're insects that can do damage, termites, carpenter ants, bedbugs, lice---the sooner you get rid of them the less you'd need to kill
Being proactive is often the better choice.

Do advocacy. write congress and senate, the drug companies.

 

[anarchist100]

Vaccines are tested on animals, but the diseases they protect us from can require many more drugs and procedures that animals are used to produce.
It's much like not wanting to kill insects--if they're insects that can do damage, termites, carpenter ants, bedbugs, lice---the sooner you get rid of them the less you'd need to kill
Being proactive is often the better choice.

Do advocacy. write congress and senate, the drug companies.

We can't just ask them, they don't care!

 

[David3]

We can't just ask them, they don't care!

.

Some government representatives do care about animal welfare. Please consider these examples:

California Proposition 2, a farm animal welfare proposition, was supported by U.S. Senator Dianne Feinstein, and by U.S. Representatives John Campbell, Elton Gallegly, Barbara Lee, Brad Sherman, and Maxine Waters: List of Proposition 2 supporters - Ballotpedia

California Senate Bill 1249, which bans the sale of cosmetics that are animal-tested, was approved by California Governor Jerry Brown: Bill Text - SB-1249 Animal testing: cosmetics.

U.S. Senator Corey Booker has proposed legislation to place a moratorium on factory farming: U.S. Senator Cory Booker of New Jersey
.

 

[anarchist100]

.

Some government representatives do care about animal welfare. Please consider these examples:

California Proposition 2, a farm animal welfare proposition, was supported by U.S. Senator Dianne Feinstein, and by U.S. Representatives John Campbell, Elton Gallegly, Barbara Lee, Brad Sherman, and Maxine Waters: List of Proposition 2 supporters - Ballotpedia

California Senate Bill 1249, which bans the sale of cosmetics that are animal-tested, was approved by California Governor Jerry Brown: Bill Text - SB-1249 Animal testing: cosmetics.

U.S. Senator Corey Booker has proposed legislation to place a moratorium on factory farming: U.S. Senator Cory Booker of New Jersey
.

That's all well and good, but why aren't we seeing all this get done?

 

[David3]

That's all well and good, but why aren't we seeing all this get done?

Proposition 2 and Senate Bill 1249 did get done. They are now the law in California.

 

[Jamie in Chile]

I think I will get a vaccine. I agree with The Conversation article above in post no 7 from Lou.

It does make me mad when they kill animals at the end of experiments.