US Trump's immigrant prison camps on the southern border

Second Summer

Administrator
Staff member
Joined
Apr 26, 2012
Reaction score
8,608
Location
Oxfordshire, UK
Lifestyle
  1. Vegan
It's hard to believe, but 74 years after the end of WW2, which saw the most extreme form and scale of concentration camps, civilians are again being put into concentration camps. From around June 2017 until June 2018 the Trump administration had a policy of separating children from their parents or guardians with whom they had illegally entered the US. The policy was intended to deter illegal immigration. In June 2018 a judge issued an injunction against the policy and ordered that the children be reunited with their parents within 30 days.

However, even now, one year later, hundreds of children remain separated from their parents, and also:
In June 2019, an inspection of a Clint, Texas detainment center holding infant, child, and teenage migrants found the children to be without adequate food, bedding, soap, toothpaste and clean clothing.[26][27]
There have been various media reports that the Trump administration had continued the family separation policy even after a court had ordered in June 2018 to put an end to routine family separations. Some of the reports included USA Today in February 2019,[83] The Boston Globe in March 2019,[19] Los Angeles Times in April 2019,[84] CBS News in May 2019,[85] and Houston Chronicle in June 2019. [86] A recent government report showed that 245 children were removed from their families, in some cases without clear documentation undertaken to track them in order to reunite them with their parents.[19][87]
Source:

For reference, see also:

I feel like this is something that ought to be talked about more.
 
Frankly, even if the children were being kept in picturesque little cottages with all the material things they could want, the underlying policy of separating children from their parents as a deterrent to people seeking sanctuary is unconscionable, inhumane and disgusting.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Andy_T
Also, for anybody offended by people calling out the American concentration camps as such, the reminder that in 1933, when the first one was built in Dachau, they were not yet primarily for murdering people...
 
Also, for anybody offended by people calling out the American concentration camps as such, the reminder that in 1933, when the first one was built in Dachau, they were not yet primarily for murdering people...
Agreed, though maybe that was the first in Europe, but not in the world. (See the Wikipedia article on interment in the OP.)
 
Also, for anybody offended by people calling out the American concentration camps as such, the reminder that in 1933, when the first one was built in Dachau, they were not yet primarily for murdering people...

They were initially built to facilitate forced labor.

I'm going to leave it to the survivors of the concentration camps and the families of those killed in the camps whether they feel it is a co-opting of their suffering to call these concentration camps.

I personally am calling them prison camps, and no one, especially not a child, belongs in a prison camp.
 
Agreed, though maybe that was the first in Europe, but not in the world. (See the Wikipedia article on interment in the OP.)

Of course not, there is the glorious British history from the Boer war.

But what I mean is that it was the first concentration camp built by the actual Nazis, in Germany under a National Socialist government headed by Chancellor Adolf Hitler. That is what typically is understood under a "concentration camp" when using the term.
 
I'm going to leave it to the survivors of the concentration camps and the families of those killed in the camps whether they feel it is a co-opting of their suffering to call these concentration camps.

I have the feeling that they might be split on the subject.

I have seen videos with two actual Jewish survivors of concentration camps vehemently denying the analogy and attacking Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez for making it.
I can understand that they might have strong opinions about it.
They might also have other strong opinions about American politics influencing their decision to speak out.

My personal connection is that my paternal grandfather (Christian, Socialist and Union leader) was shortly interned in one of these camps (the "work" variety) in the 1930's, which let him to stop his union work.

The husband of my maternal grandmother (who she married after my "real" grandfather had passed away, so he was the only grandfather I ever met in my life, and for me one of the most important persons of my youth) was the only member of his family who avoided the fate of getting murdered in Auschwitz, as he had emigrated to Bolivia in 1935.

So when he showed me the graves of his family in the Jewish section of the Vienna cemetery when I was about 8 years old, that was a very powerful introduction to the evils of fascism (be it called National Socialism or any other name, like "Alt-Right")

My view is that I really do not want to wait until the first variety of concentration camps turns into the second variety...
 
Last edited:
They were initially built to facilitate forced labor.

I'm going to leave it to the survivors of the concentration camps and the families of those killed in the camps whether they feel it is a co-opting of their suffering to call these concentration camps.

I personally am calling them prison camps, and no one, especially not a child, belongs in a prison camp.
Well, I personally feel that "prison camp" is much too mild in this case. These are camps for children - infant, child, and teenage migrants, in some cases run by the US military so as to avoid any kind of public scrutiny, where the "inmates" are denied necessities such as adequate food, bedding (sleeping on the floor), soap, toothpaste and clean clothing. In some camps there are apparently outbreaks of flu and lice. They're exposed to extreme cold (presumably at night time) and the light is on 24h a day. There is minimal adult supervision, and that is despite some of the "inmates" being infants. In a normal, civilian prison the inmates have certain rights, but that doesn't seem to be the case here.

Of course not, there is the glorious British history from the Boer war.

But what I mean is that it was the first concentration camp built by the actual Nazis, in Germany under a National Socialist government headed by Chancellor Adolf Hitler. That is what typically is understood under a "concentration camp" when using the term.
The term actually even predates the Boer wars. And yes, I know that "concentration camp" is commonly thought to be a uniquely Nazi phenomenon, but that is historically incorrect, and such a narrow usage of the term takes away our ability to learn from history and prevent it from happening again.

Edit: We should also distinguish between "concentration camp" and "extermination camp" a.k.a. "death camp" - the Nazis had both.
 
Last edited:
I have the feeling that they might be split on the subject.

I have seen videos with two actual Jewish survivors of concentration camps vehemently denying the analogy and attacking Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez for making it.
I can understand that they might have strong opinions about it.
They might also have other strong opinions about American politics influencing their decision to speak out.

My personal connection is that my paternal grandfather (Christian, Socialist and Union leader) was shortly interned in one of these camps (the "work" variety) in the 1930's, which let him to stop his union work.

The husband of my maternal grandmother (who she married after my "real" grandfather had passed away, so he was the only grandfather I ever met in my life, and for me one of the most important persons of my youth) was the only member of his family who avoided the fate of getting murdered in Auschwitz, as he had emigrated to Bolivia in 1935.

So when he showed me the graves of his family in the Jewish section of the Vienna cemetery when I was about 8 years old, that was a very powerful introduction to the evils of fascism (be it called National Socialism or any other name, like "Alt-Right")

My view is that I really do not want to wait until the first variety of concentration camps turns into the second variety...

I agree. My mother was born in 1919. I grew up with stories of the Nazi regime and have never been under any illusions it couldn't/wouldn't happen here.

I am also well aware that the people most directly and most greatly affected by the Nazi concentration camps have varying reactions to the current usage of the terminology. That's their right. As someone who's entire family was not murdered, I choose to respect that right and not co-opt their suffering.
 
Well, I personally feel that "prison camp" is much too mild in this case. These are camps for children - infant, child, and teenage migrants, in some cases run by the US military so as to avoid any kind of public scrutiny, where the "inmates" are denied necessities such as adequate food, bedding (sleeping on the floor), soap, toothpaste and clean clothing. In some camps there are apparently outbreaks of flu and lice. They're exposed to extreme cold (presumably at night time) and the light is on 24h a day. There is minimal adult supervision, and that is despite some of the "inmates" being infants. In a normal, civilian prison the inmates have certain rights, but that doesn't seem to be the case here.


The term actually even predates the Boer wars. And yes, I know that "concentration camp" is commonly thought to be a uniquely Nazi phenomenon, but that is historically incorrect, and such a narrow usage of the term takes away our ability to learn from history and prevent it from happening again.

Edit: We should also distinguish between "concentration camp" and "extermination camp" a.k.a. "death camp" - the Nazis had both.
Well, I personally feel that "prison camp" is much too mild in this case. These are camps for children - infant, child, and teenage migrants, in some cases run by the US military so as to avoid any kind of public scrutiny, where the "inmates" are denied necessities such as adequate food, bedding (sleeping on the floor), soap, toothpaste and clean clothing. In some camps there are apparently outbreaks of flu and lice. They're exposed to extreme cold (presumably at night time) and the light is on 24h a day. There is minimal adult supervision, and that is despite some of the "inmates" being infants. In a normal, civilian prison the inmates have certain rights, but that doesn't seem to be the case here.


The term actually even predates the Boer wars. And yes, I know that "concentration camp" is commonly thought to be a uniquely Nazi phenomenon, but that is historically incorrect, and such a narrow usage of the term takes away our ability to learn from history and prevent it from happening again.


Prison camps are prisons consisting of tents or other nonpermanent, inadequate "shelter", without heating/cooling, proper toilet and other facilities, clean water or sufficient food, etc., and generally brutal conditions.

The two images that come to mind are prisoner of war camps and prison camps in the South of the U.S., of the chain gang variety. Both are pretty f***ing grim images, for adults, not to imagine children.

I find the argument that the use of "concentration camp" is not intended to invoke the Holocaust a disingenuous one; that's precisely what the use of the term is intended to do. (See the image of Anne Frank above.)

After all, the terms "concentration camp" and "prison camp" differ by one word, and here you are, arguing that "concentration" somehow paints a bleaker picture than "prison." How can that be? Perhaps because of images of piles of corpses?
Edit: We should also distinguish between "concentration camp" and "extermination camp" a.k.a. "death camp" - the Nazis had both.

I find it fascinating that this sentence is appearing almost word for word in every online discussion of the current situation. A bunch of people must be reading the same material.

Yes, the death camps, intended for the large scale murder of Jews and other groups, weren't opened until after circa 1940.

However, Dachau, that well known concentration (not death, never death!) camp was opened in 1933. Strangely enough, even though it was a concentration camp, tens of thousands of people died there. (As they did at every concentration camp.) Medical "experiments" were performed there. (For example, close to a thousand Catholic priests imprisoned there died after being intentionally infected with malaria.) Dachau even had its own gas chamber, despite being a concentration camp.
 
BTW, trump's family separation policy has been around since almost the beginning of his administration. I just checked, and I first posted about it on VV in March of 2017.

Why has it taken this long for people to pay attention?
 
  • Like
Reactions: KLS52
The administration is ramping up to deport a million people, targeting families who are undocumented.

I am incandescent with rage at what all these families are going through. I wish I believed in a hell.
 
Read this story about a three year old with a serious heart condition who was told she had to pick the parent with whom she could remain:
 
  • Sad
Reactions: Val
Read this story about a three year old with a serious heart condition who was told she had to pick the parent with whom she could remain:
Yikes...I was holding my breath listening to that.
 
The administration is ramping up to deport a million people, targeting families who are undocumented.

I am incandescent with rage at what all these families are going through. I wish I believed in a hell.
Hell exists. It's everywhere, whereever humanoids are, and it doesn't let them go, because they don't let it go. Separate humans from their inner hell,- and there will be no more known mankind and no more this destructive civilization. It's alive while it feeds itself with blood, violence and perpetual fear. 😬 👿 🔥 :sob: The only way for Earth to heal itself - is to wipe us out ASAP.
 
It would be interesting to read the views of Americans about these detention centres for illegal immigrants. What solutions could be put into place to prevent illegal immigrants walking over their borders ? Does the US have an obligation to let anybody who wishes to enter their country to do so ?

Children should never be separated from their parents. However, some parents are apparently sending their children over the border with smugglers.

Laws are so very different depending on each and every country. In the UK when illegal immigrants manage to cross the Channel (which apparently isn't too difficult) are not sent back to their home countries. However, the UK does not have the same amount of asylum seekers or immigrants compared to the US.