Space Sciences The universe may have existed forever

Second Summer

Second Summer

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(Phys.org) —The universe may have existed forever, according to a new model that applies quantum correction terms to complement Einstein's theory of general relativity. The model may also account for dark matter and dark energy, resolving multiple problems at once.

The widely accepted age of the universe, as estimated by general relativity, is 13.8 billion years. In the beginning, everything in existence is thought to have occupied a single infinitely dense point, or singularity. Only after this point began to expand in a "Big Bang" did the universe officially begin.

Although the Big Bang singularity arises directly and unavoidably from the mathematics of general relativity, some scientists see it as problematic because the math can explain only what happened immediately after—not at or before—the singularity.
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More: No Big Bang? Quantum equation predicts universe has no beginning
 
From a lay person point of view, do you think it's easier to accept that the universe has existed forever, or is it easier to accept that it somehow at one point came into existence from a singularity, as in the Big Bang model?
 
from what I know it isn't considered, necessarily, that the universe came from a singularity.....present models break down at a certain point, going back, but that doesn't mean it goes back as far as singularity.

I think the universe is reborn cyclically.....My guess that the universe starts the size a black hole would be if all the matter were made it up.. I think I worked that out to be the size of a galaxy....so I think that this universe started the size of a galaxy; expanded, and one day will all turn to radiation, and then there will be another big bang, as some of the radiation turns back to matter....and on and on...cyclical....maybe the universe is some how different to the last one. Maybe there was a first universe. I had the idea that the fist universe might have only lasted a few seconds, before there was another big bang. The system matured, and the next one lasted a few more seconds; each one getting a bit longer, but that is my conjecture.

I think the book Cycles of Time, by Roger Penrose has more about the cyclic idea....but I couldn't muster the enthusiasm to read it.:rolleyes:
 
Indian Summer said:
From a lay person point of view, do you think it's easier to accept that the universe has existed forever, or is it easier to accept that it somehow at one point came into existence from a singularity, as in the Big Bang model?
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I think it's equally difficult to wrap the human mind around "forever" as it is to wrap the mind around complete "nothingness" - at least, that's true for my particular human mind.
 
Actually, I can sort of understand the big bang conception of "forever". If the singularity idea is correct, then at one point in time, all matter and energy were crammed together so tightly that there was only one object, and therefore no relative motion, and therefore ... no time. For time to exist, there must be a series of events. If nothing happens, there are no events, and therefore no time.

It's difficult to imagine that all energy and matter could have been sufficiently tightly packed, though. At the atomic level, surely electrons were still orbiting atom nuclei etc? Maybe the atomic level doesn't matter? Well, I'm just a lay person ... Interesting to ponder, though.
 
It's also difficult to imagine what could have set off the big bang. If all matter and energy was so tightly packed that no relative motion occurred and time didn't exist ... Then it seems you have to invoke God or something similar to explain what set it all off.
 
from what I have read IS, I don't think that the consensus is that there was a singularity.

I don't think you get singularities in nature.

Obviously if you plot back and redo the expansion you get to a single point, but then you could expand back from that point too......ants on an expanding balloon might think that a balloon started off as a point too...but it doesn't follow.

:shrug::shrug:

but a singularity may appeal to you mathematically.
 
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