The tyranny of political correctness

Hog

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I once got in trouble for saying that a certain group of illegal immigrants had a problem with learning English because they were illiterate in their native language.

I got in trouble for saying illegal immigrants instead of undocumented workers. I also got in trouble for saying that illiteracy interferes with learning a second language. I think I was called racially insensitive. I suppose that I would have gotten in no trouble if I used a bunch of fancy vocabulary words that would prevent everybody from understanding what I said.

The problem arises when stupid people use fancy vocabulary words to describe concepts that they do not understand. This problem is painfully evident when I observe some math teachers teach in a politically correct way. I should not exactly come out and say you are obviously stupid. But, I got mad at my younger son's math teacher. The principal politely said, "Ms. Xxxx says that you do not approve of her teaching techniques." I replied to him by saying, "Wait a minute. I never disapproved of her teaching techniques. I said that she should learn sixth-grade math before she tries to teach it."

My son is very good at math. His standardized test scores reflect his strong understanding of math. Still, he struggled in math class because the teacher did not know what she was talking about. I later had him removed from her math class.

Some people harvest wild animals. I privately call those people "cruel serial killers." But, if I say that then I am insensitive to alternative cultural traditions.
I predict that the United States will become predominately vegan during the next century. I fear that saying, "I love to eat pork" will become hate speech.

I might not approve of eating animals for recreational purposes. But, we do have this thing called the first amendment.

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."
 
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(One of my post on this forum was recently edited because "it might offend some younger viewers" LOL.)

Crazy that in America you cannot burn an American flag or put it upside down without being beaten up.
It's also strange that you cannot testify against the president's bad behaviours without being fired from your job and threatened.

Illma Gore's caricature of Trump micropenis was banned. How does that works with the first amendment? It seems that freedom of expression doesn't apply to everybody. Thousand of death threats were sent to the artist. Then Illma Gore was punched in the face.

Do you think that's OK?
(You realise, I’m sure, that I intentionally gave examples of right wing censorship… How do you feel about that?)

It's of no surprise to me that political correctness is so strong. Obviously most people have a puritan soul and a liberal façade.
 
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I once got in trouble for saying that a certain group of illegal immigrants had a problem with learning English because they were illiterate in their native language.
That is an interesting observation. I noticed that being illiterate (speaking of immigrants) is not always applicable to their grammar mistakes, because it's not always possible for many of them to study a new language before they move to another country. But(!) i too believe that the basics of speaking a foreign language - are in the ability to express yourself in your native language. For instance, no matter how old i am, and for how long i've encountered a necessity to speak English,- i still feel that i'm super illiterate in English (and it will never be different). But, at least, i'm trying to learn what to do in order to express my thoughts more precisely (sometimes i feel desperate that nothing works out). If i were, like many modern Russians, the one who confuses the russian cases, or gets lost when it comes to the usage of "ь" (softening sign), i would make the similar mistakes in ANY language. Don't get me wrong: in this case, i'm speaking about these specific russian matters, only because the cases and the softening sign express people's attitude towards their native language and their respectfulness to opponents (or its absence) more than any other grammar rules. When i read youth's comments on social media, i want them all "to wash their mouths with soap",- not only because they curse, but because their speech makes me cringe, and i feel pain for the language and for older generations. And whose fault is it?? (It's a rhitorical question). Btw, sometimes i meet immigrants (Armenian, Azeri, Uzbekh, Kyrgyz, Tadzhikh, Chechen, etc.), who are not very good at russian yet, but i enjoy their speech more than some russians' talk. I can only guess, how hard it has to be to study such a difficult language from scratch (it's a real nightmare, actually). But if one has brains, he will succeed, and native russians will respect him and never even notice his "nuances". If not (no brains whatsoever, lol),- he will sound illiterate anyway.
P.S.: Our great writer, Ivan Turgenev, once said:
IMG_20200301_131338.jpg

And where is it now??🤦‍♀️
 
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Some people harvest wild animals. I privately call those people "cruel serial killers." But, if I say that then I am insensitive to alternative cultural traditions.
Katrina Dent, a vegan metis mohawk denounced the way so called anti-racists used this "indigenous people though" argument. I would say it is racist to assume that indigenous people cannot be vegan.
 
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Ugh...don't get me started.

It's suffice to say that Political Correctness is censorship disguised as progressive idealism hiding behind self righteous indignation.

My (strikethrough)

If you had said instead:

"It's suffice to say that Political Correctness is censorship bolstered by a carefully contrived righteous indignation"

I would agree with your statement. However, this view is unpopular, as it is exceedingly difficult for most people to come to the realization that they have been lied to, and most especially when it has been done with emotional manipulation through mediums they have learned to trust.
 
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I don't get it. Obviously freedom of speech is a liberal value. Historically, it was defended during the enlightenment by liberals... So I’m baffled by the term “Bernie Bro” (apparently white males who support Bernie and are displeasing to liberals).

I think that I was naïve about "total" freedom of speech in the USA (we don't have it in France). In the USA, populist right-wingers censor artist who criticise power and people who burn flags, feminists use shame as a rhetorical tactic, liberals name call lefties, woke culture shut down rallies on universities. It seems to me that nobody is willing to hear anything that doesn’t fit their narrative.
 
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Saying someone is being politically correct often has no meaning. It seems more an insult to someone who's simply not being an *******.

So, if you say the "wrong" word you're an ***? Who decides what is the "wrong" word? How do people keep up with the ever changing and increasing list of wrong words? What about context and intent?
 
The point here is that if you get told a certain word should not be used, e.g. because it is considered a racial slur, then the majority of the population typically does not see a big issue with that and tries to avoid using that word in the future. There are, however a steadfast few who will argue that they don't really think it is a slur and insist on their right to use it.
Case in point: The famous "n-word" where only the most racist still insist they should be allowed to use it.
I also understand that the word "illegal immigrant" is "loaded" also in that it does convey a message of negativity, even if it is applied to asylum seekers, who are refugees who should be allowed asylum under the Unite Nations Declaration of Human Rights, even though that right is now de facto illegally withheld by the US government.
 
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So, if you say the "wrong" word you're an ***? Who decides what is the "wrong" word? How do people keep up with the ever changing and increasing list of wrong words? What about context and intent?
That's really not at all what I meant, but there are so many instances where people feel they have the right to hate, exclude, and demand their views override the rights of others. The idea that people should be able to have rights should never be seen as 'politically correct'
As to 'wrong words'? Well yes, it evolves as much as anything else in society. People should never be seen or termed as 'property' of others--though they used to be, and it was just fine. Those with disabilities, whether mental or physical, should not be experimented on- though they used to be. ...........
It's not black and white. What matters is what follows
 
When I hear the argument against 'politcally correctness' I think of people like Rush Limbaugh, and I bristle.....

The problem is that "normal" people with no ill intent get piled on by the PC crowd. Their ideological purity standards pretty much put them in cult territory.
 
The problem is that "normal" people with no ill intent get piled on by the PC crowd. Their ideological purity standards pretty much put them in cult territory.
That is quite true- I came back to pretty say that. Like I said, it's not black and white- you have to take situations as they arrive, and sometimes you'll be wrong, and others times right, and then others--not worth the fight.
Like holding the door for people behind you- it doesn't matter if it's a women or a man, it's a courtesy. Now there are times an older man will quite pointedly hold it when I'm a good bit behind, just because I'm a women. Unless I know he's a just a misogynistic jerk, I smile and thank him. (I did work with a misogynistic jerk and would often get just before the door and turn around)
 
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The point here is that if you get told a certain word should not be used, e.g. because it is considered a racial slur, then the majority of the population typically does not see a big issue with that and tries to avoid using that word in the future. There are, however a steadfast few who will argue that they don't really think it is a slur and insist on their right to use it.
Case in point: The famous "n-word" where only the most racist still insist they should be allowed to use it.
I also understand that the word "illegal immigrant" is "loaded" also in that it does convey a message of negativity, even if it is applied to asylum seekers, who are refugees who should be allowed asylum under the Unite Nations Declaration of Human Rights, even though that right is now de facto illegally withheld by the US government.

I wonder if, in the case of the 'n-word' this would be your view if someone came here and started using it frequently...

...and then you found out that the user was a black man who frequently used that word in his own social circles when referring to other blacks. I guess the PC all of a sudden wouldn't apply, right?
 
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So, if you say the "wrong" word you're an ***? Who decides what is the "wrong" word? How do people keep up with the ever changing and increasing list of wrong words? What about context and intent?

Spot on. And intent, mind you, is very often hard to discern on primarily
text boards like we are operating under here.
 
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I got in trouble for saying illegal immigrants instead of undocumented workers.
Not to be pedantic, but how do you know they're workers? "Undocumented immigrants," perhaps, would seem more appropriate, unless you're specifically referring to, well, workers.

Question: Are you certain you "got in trouble" for this? Or was it someone simply pointing out to you the better term to use? I ask this because I don't mind (generally speaking) if someone corrects me, because I'm the type who wants to know if I'm speaking inappropriately or not so I don't (generally) mind being corrected. If someone does correct me, I don't automatically translate that into "I got in trouble." Now, if someone berates me for 10 minutes about it, then I might say I 'got in trouble'... (But it wouldn't necessarily mean their point wasn't justified, simply because they had anger issues.)

At least you didn't say 'illegal aliens' - cuz I think that one has been put to rest (which is kind of odd that I immediately think of the song by The Police ...).

This just seems like an extension of the "language is in a constant state of flux" conversation.
 
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