The different schools of WFPB eating for health

Lou

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Barnard, Esselstein, Gregar, Fuhrman, Mcdougal (am I missing anyone?) all say pretty much the same thing but do vary a little bit.
Just now I thought of an interesting project - make a chart about how they differ. Since I just thought of it, i bet someone has already done it. Off the top of my head, i think the main difference with these guys is the value/role of potatoes. :)

Who is your favorite? And why? What do you think he says that is different from anyone/everyone else.

I've only read Gregar, Fuhrman, and Mcdougal. Gregar and Fuhrman (IMHO) are almost interchangeable. I think I like Gregar best because of his NutritionFacts videos and essays. Also, I think Fuhrman has become sort of "commercialized" with his line of supplements and stuff.

I guess part of the equation might be their companion books. Like their cookbooks. and their web presence.

How bout this? if a newbie came to you and wanted a book recommendation, what would you recommend first?
 
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Indian Summer

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I haven't actually read any of them, but my impression - based on what some adherents seem to be saying - is that while they're definitely on the right track, at least some of them go overboard with cautioning against oils.

We need a good amount of fats in our diet - 30% or so? Can we really get that much fats entirely from unprocessed plant sources? And should we really not use any cooking oils at all? And surely the old wisdom is still true that some oils like rapeseed / canola are better for us than those with high content of saturated fats?
 

Emma JC

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Books are great and I am a huge reader however many people find reading an entire book challenging and even though I own a number of Dr Gregers books and Esselstyn etc I would recommend videos over books. Dr Greger has so many great ones as does Dr Barnard :heart: and Dr McDougall and all the others. Watching Game Changers, What the Health etc would be my first recommendation.

I do think that you can get plenty of fats from a whole food diet - avocados, nuts, seeds, nut butters etc can you supply you with more than enough and if you use minimal olive oil etc with some cooking then you will have plenty. Also, if you do eat some faux meats/sausage, cheez then they supply a lot of fat and even the plant milks supply 5-10% of daily fats.

Emma JC
 
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silva

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I love Dr Greger! He's far from extreme anything, just offers up a ton of substantiated evidence based research.
I may struggle to keep wfpb, but, I have followed his strict green light daily dozen of eating and it truly is life changing. People will say small changes can have great results, but, going all the way takes results to a much greater level.
SO, why don't I stick to it if it feels so good? I don't know, why do people do anything that causes them discomfort? Drugs? Alcohol?

I would agree that we don't need any oils. Nuts, seeds, and a variety of plant foods, contain all the fat we need.
 

Lou

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Although a lot of people suggest 30% for fats and 30% for protein, almost all the WFPB docs recommend 20/20.

Before I got sick before I went WFPB, and while I was still overweight I found getting my protein Over 20% challenging and getting my fat intake Under 30% also challenging. When I first went WFPB i just followed Dr. Fuhrman's plan and hey poof! I was 60/20/20! or at least 50/25/25.
I eat a lot of stir fry and salads. but it isn't too hard to go oil-free with both. (an oil spritzer is not a bad idea for the stir fry though)

and there are already a lot of fats available in a healthy vegan diet. soy milk and tofu is like 40% fat. Peanut butter is like 70% fat.

The issue with oil is that it is so calorie-dense. If you are trying to lose weight cutting out oil is like a no-brainer.

Nowadays I'm trying to gain weight. I'm eating a lot more calories every day and now I will purposely use high-fat dressing and liberally add oil to my stir fry.
 
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Lou

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I love Dr Greger! He's far from extreme anything, just offers up a ton of substantiated evidence based research.
I may struggle to keep wfpb, but, I have followed his strict green light daily dozen of eating and it truly is life changing. People will say small changes can have great results, but, going all the way takes results to a much greater level.
SO, why don't I stick to it if it feels so good? I don't know, why do people do anything that causes them discomfort? Drugs? Alcohol?

I would agree that we don't need any oils. Nuts, seeds, and a variety of plant foods, contain all the fat we need.

Half of those guys I have never heard of. One of the comments mentioned that Fuhrman is not on this list.
Also missing is the Julieanna Hever. Although she is just an RD.
 

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Here is my thought
Would like to ask the newbies to definitely read the books, sequence would be
1. Dr. Furhman -"End of Diabetes" -it has everything for Diabetes, if only one book you want to recommend then this is the one) causes, solution, which are yes and which are no, 1 week diet plan and recipes
2. Dr. Barnard "Reversing Diabetes" - though it deals with all the above, focuses more on tips for accommodating the life style, lot of repeat of topics just insist how important they are.
3. Dr. Gregor "How not to Die" - Causes for various life style diseases and solutions for the same.

It certainly helps to read all books, first thing anyone know would be, there is a possibility to fight a disease, and this possibility is being assured from the Doctors. Though their approaches are little different to each other, the underlying concept is same. These books teach the science behind the causes of disease, life style change impacts, solutions, importance of various foods, options to fight back etc.

But at the end, we need to know how our body is reacting, so doing individual "research" and making our own body a lab for such trials is necessary So, its like gain knowledge and apply it to know what is good for you to win your life back
 

silva

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Half of those guys I have never heard of. One of the comments mentioned that Fuhrman is not on this list.
Also missing is the Julieanna Hever. Although she is just an RD.
Truly one of the best guides for anyone starting a plant based, or going vegan!
 
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shyvas

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I love Dr Greger! He's far from extreme anything, just offers up a ton of substantiated evidence based research.
I may struggle to keep wfpb, but, I have followed his strict green light daily dozen of eating and it truly is life changing. People will say small changes can have great results, but, going all the way takes results to a much greater level.
SO, why don't I stick to it if it feels so good? I don't know, why do people do anything that causes them discomfort? Drugs? Alcohol?

I would agree that we don't need any oils. Nuts, seeds, and a variety of plant foods, contain all the fat we need.

Too strict? A little of what you fancy does you the world of good. It's all about achieving the right balance that is right for you. :)
 
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Lou

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Here is my thought
Would like to ask the newbies to definitely read the books, sequence would be
I think that would be great if a person had diabetes. or if diabetes ran in their family. or if they were just concerned about diabetes.

I don't have diabetes. It doesn't run in my family. and there are too many general vegan nutrition books on my "to read" list now.

I think the first vegan nutrition book I read was The Idiot's guide and the second was Eat To Live. But I'm not sure that is what I would recommend. gotta think about it some more.

However. I have a friend with diabetes and i wish I could force him to read any one of those books you listed. i should just buy one of their companion cooking books and give it to his wife. She does all the cooking.
 

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I think that would be great if a person had diabetes. or if diabetes ran in their family. or if they were just concerned about diabetes.

I don't have diabetes. It doesn't run in my family. and there are too many general vegan nutrition books on my "to read" list now.

I think the first vegan nutrition book I read was The Idiot's guide and the second was Eat To Live. But I'm not sure that is what I would recommend. gotta think about it some more.

However. I have a friend with diabetes and i wish I could force him to read any one of those books you listed. i should just buy one of their companion cooking books and give it to his wife. She does all the cooking.
You are right, it was related to diabetics, I wish I could edit my message to "Newbie in diabetes". Thank you for the correction. By the reference of Doctors names in the initial message I thought its more related to diabetes. Though its vegan concept from all of them, but its all driven by underlying "root" cause "insulin resistance" rest all life style diseases are branches of that tree of diseases.
 
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fakei

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Barnard, Esselstein, Gregar, Fuhrman, Mcdougal (am I missing anyone?) all say pretty much the same thing but do vary a little bit.
Just now I thought of an interesting project - make a chart about how they differ. Since I just thought of it, i bet someone has already done it. Off the top of my head, i think the main difference with these guys is the value/role of potatoes. :)

Who is your favorite? And why? What do you think he says that is different from anyone/everyone else.

I've only read Gregar, Fuhrman, and Mcdougal. Gregar and Fuhrman (IMHO) are almost interchangeable. I think I like Gregar best because of his NutritionFacts videos and essays. Also, I think Fuhrman has become sort of "commercialized" with his line of supplements and stuff.

I guess part of the equation might be their companion books. Like their cookbooks. and their web presence.

How bout this? if a newbie came to you and wanted a book recommendation, what would you recommend first?
There are several missing, not all wrote books though. Probably the best way to get to know many of them is by watching Plant Based News.

One is doctor Dean Ornish, he differs more than the others in his approach, and he also includes the mental side in his program, but his conclusions lead the same way, or close to that. He did studies with reversing heart disease and with prostate cancer and is mentioned by doctor Neal Barnard for instance. His book The Spectrum, even though his approach may look as a flexitarian or too liberal for vegans, is pretty much worth reading.


Bottom line WFPB books are quite inexpensive and can answer many questions and doubts you see in this forum.

The people who read these books and create Youtube channels displaying their results and showing how to prepare meals are also worth mentioning as some seem to have good insights on how and what to eat from their practical experience.
 
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fakei

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From a practical POV, to know what to eat, how much and why, The Starch Solution may be a good one, it also can be consulted without reading the entire book or be read in whatever order you like, there are many YouTubers who mention it.
 
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fakei

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I haven't actually read any of them, but my impression - based on what some adherents seem to be saying - is that while they're definitely on the right track, at least some of them go overboard with cautioning against oils.

We need a good amount of fats in our diet - 30% or so? Can we really get that much fats entirely from unprocessed plant sources? And should we really not use any cooking oils at all? And surely the old wisdom is still true that some oils like rapeseed / canola are better for us than those with high content of saturated fats?
They often are talking to two audiences, one on prevention and other on recovery. However, as an example, in page 220 of The Spectrum, Dr Ornish mentions studies that say all fats, not just this or that fat, can increase risk of breast cancer. And breast cancer can affect men too BTW though it is much less common.
 
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fakei

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And surely the old wisdom is still true that some oils like rapeseed / canola are better for us than those with high content of saturated fats?
The experts say the rate of omega 6 to omega 3 should be 4:1 or less and the ratio in canola oil 2:1 so it is within the range and has 7% of saturated fat by comparison with olive oil which has 14%.
 
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fakei

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Beware however that vegans need consume salt or have some other sodium source.
 
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fakei

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Barnard, Esselstein, Gregar, Fuhrman, Mcdougal (am I missing anyone?) all say pretty much the same thing but do vary a little bit.
Just now I thought of an interesting project - make a chart about how they differ. Since I just thought of it, i bet someone has already done it. Off the top of my head, i think the main difference with these guys is the value/role of potatoes. :)

Who is your favorite? And why? What do you think he says that is different from anyone/everyone else.

I've only read Gregar, Fuhrman, and Mcdougal. Gregar and Fuhrman (IMHO) are almost interchangeable. I think I like Gregar best because of his NutritionFacts videos and essays. Also, I think Fuhrman has become sort of "commercialized" with his line of supplements and stuff.

I guess part of the equation might be their companion books. Like their cookbooks. and their web presence.

How bout this? if a newbie came to you and wanted a book recommendation, what would you recommend first?
Not being very familiar with works of doctors Fuhrman and Gregor only after watching several videos from VegSource realized there is a fundamental difference between at least the first and the rest.

Personally the not becoming nutrient obsessed makes more sense. Also the diet proposed by doctors Campbell, Esselstyn and MacDougal is a diet for all pockets. Nuts are expensive and so are supplements.

 
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Lou

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I've read Fuhrman and Gregar. My familiarity with the rest pretty much is based on a few videos and what every other VFers have told me.
I think there is little to no differences with Fuhrman and Gregar. I think one YouTuber made a video on the differences but I can't remember what her conclusions were.
As far as I can tell, the other WFPB doctors disagree on very little - maybe the role and importance of potatoes.
Except for B12, I don't think any of these guys require supplement in their diets. However Fuhrman sells supplements on his website.
Not all nuts are expensive. You can buy 2lbs of peanuts for as little as $5. That is like 30¢ a day.
Not all supplements are expensive. A good multi might cost as little as 4¢ a day.
 

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I guess I mostly eat a mix of both (if I'm not in vegan junk food mode that is, lol).

Fuhrman's approach is not enough starches for me. McDougall/Barnard's approach etc. is not heavy enough on beans and nuts for me.

So in the end I eat more beans and nuts than McDougall/Barnard recommend and more starches than Fuhrman recommends (again, if I'm not in vegan junk food mode, lol).