News Terrible lawsuit

Nekodaiden

Forum Legend
Banned
Joined
Dec 2, 2017
Reaction score
1,208
Age
49
Lifestyle
  1. Vegan
I went to a Burger King fairly recently ("Hungry Jacks" where I live) and asked about their plant based whopper (I had something similar before, which was re-heated in a microwave, although apparently this one is different). I was told it was plant based but technically not vegan as it was cooked on the same grill as meat. To me this doesn't even make it plant based, as I see "plant based" as an all inclusive term, not one based on percentage as some suggest. I ordered some fries instead. No biggie.

Suing seems extreme to me, although it's probably the best way to draw attention to the issue. If BK wants to cater to the vegan market, it's on them not to do it half - ***. I think customers demanding grill cleaning on purity issues is unreasonable, not because not wanting meat/fat residue on vegan burgers is unreasonable, but because it's impractical for employees. Surely setting up a small separate broiler for the tiny amount of vegans and vegan-curious asking for impossible whoppers is not a big ask when a company is trying to cater to a small market.
 
  • Like
Reactions: betiPT and Emma JC
OP
OP
nobody

nobody

Forum Legend
Joined
Jul 15, 2017
Reaction score
202
Location
U.S.
If BK wants to cater to the vegan market, it's on them not to do it half - ***.

Surely setting up a small separate broiler for the tiny amount of vegans and vegan-curious asking for impossible whoppers is not a big ask when a company is trying to cater to a small market.

I don't think BK is necessarily trying to cater to the vegan market because the Impossible Whopper does not come sans mayonaise by default. The McDonald's PLT is the same way, not vegan by default as far as ingredients. And fake meat is made to appeal to omnivores, not vegans. Maybe they are testing plant based patties to see if they can replace real beef entirely. That would be good, if they did that.
 

shyvas

Super Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Jun 5, 2012
Reaction score
34,447
Location
Somewhere in the South
Lifestyle
  1. Other
I don't think BK is necessarily trying to cater to the vegan market because the Impossible Whopper does not come sans mayonaise by default. The McDonald's PLT is the same way, not vegan by default as far as ingredients. And fake meat is made to appeal to omnivores, not vegans. Maybe they are testing plant based patties to see if they can replace real beef entirely. That would be good, if they did that.

Agree. However, I would imagine that in these kind of eateries that have fake burgers on their menu, are only destined to omnivores. I really have no desire to find myself amongst so mean omnis. including those awful odours of meat being cooked. :(

So, in MO it's not very positive that BK has a law suit, as it may just result in them no longer offering vegan burger to omnis.

During my last holiday in southern California, my cousin and I went to a BK because she was delighted to have found a place where I
could also eat a meal/snack.
When I queried them about the cooking facility; to know whether the vegan version was cooked separately. The answer was a blunt NO.

I kept quiet and didn't respond before leaving. This is out of character for me but I 'felt' this was the correct way to do so; by not kicking up a fuss.:rolleyes:
 

Andy_T

Little green mod
Staff member
Supporter
Joined
Dec 20, 2014
Reaction score
5,467
Location
Hannover, Germany
Lifestyle
  1. Vegan
That lawsuit has no merit at all IMO, as they specifically have options for vegans to make it vegan (no mayo/off broiler), and advise that the plant-based patty is grilled on the same broiler as the dead animal ones.

If that person did not inquire about it before, BK is not really to blame.

I understand that this is the relevant BK advert, guess it will be "Exhibit A" at the trial...

bk impossible whopper.JPG
 

Lou

Forum Legend
Joined
Jun 8, 2018
Reaction score
12,494
Age
67
Location
San Mateo, Ca
Lifestyle
  1. Vegan
I thought this article was pretty good.


But then I read this one. And I think its even better


Here is my favorite part.

The animals don’t give a sh*t if your vegan burger is cooked on the same grill.
Here’s the thing: Animals don’t benefit from our aspirations of personal purity. A vegan patty that is cooked on the same grill as a beef patty does not make a difference to the lives of the animals we’re trying to save. For chains like Burger King, Carl’s Jr., and Del Taco to add Beyond Meat and Impossible Burgers to their menus is a positive step forward. And we can’t expect every single restaurant to retrofit their kitchens with new equipment for one specific menu item because we can’t bear the thought of meat juice touching our food. Nor can we ask them to clean the grill every time we place an order. Every vegan who is connected to the internet knows about the shared grill situation, and if you’re not comfortable with it, then don’t eat at those restaurants. It’s that simple.​
 

shyvas

Super Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Jun 5, 2012
Reaction score
34,447
Location
Somewhere in the South
Lifestyle
  1. Other
I thought this article was pretty good.

. Every vegan who is connected to the internet knows about the shared grill situation, and if you’re not comfortable with it, then don’t eat at those restaurants. It’s that simple.

This is what I put into practice. 👍
 

KLS52

Forum Legend
Supporter
Joined
Jun 2, 2012
Reaction score
32,868
Age
70
Location
USA
Lifestyle
  1. Other
I had the impossible whopper for the first time last weekend and it was excellent. As for asking for it with “no mayo”, apparently it comes with cheese, too? I was grateful that the cashier said, “and no cheese” because based on everything I’ve seen online I didn’t know it came with cheese by default. I brought it home and added daiya cheddar and vegan mayo. I was never a burger fan so I won’t be having this often. But it was good.
 
Last edited:

shyvas

Super Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Jun 5, 2012
Reaction score
34,447
Location
Somewhere in the South
Lifestyle
  1. Other
My best friend works at a BK here in town and her boss instructed all of them to never use the word "vegan" when referring to the Impossible Whopper.

I get that for two reasons. Firstly, they are no longer vegan once they are cooked on a grill that has meat residue. Secondly, many consumers don't like food that is called 'vegan' because they assume that it is tasteless or not as delicious as omni food.

I think that it's a positive step that many burger joints, are providing vegan options for their omni customers. As they say, one thing leads to another... 👍
 

Indian Summer

Administrator
Staff member
Joined
Apr 26, 2012
Reaction score
7,973
Location
Oxon, UK
Lifestyle
  1. Vegan
I agree that the lawsuit probably doesn't make sense, and I'm happy to see that BK has this 'plant-based' option. However, I'd like to make this point in defence of vegan 'purity': I probably won't be dining at any BK any time soon, unless perhaps if I know for sure they can prepare a meal without any animal juices. Imagine how silly and absurd it would be for a vegan to get infected with some sort of animal-related pathogen. I'm vegan primarily because I want to reduce harm towards animals, but secondarily also for 'selfish' reasons like not being particularly keen to experience Creutzfeldt-Jacobs disease.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Nekodaiden

Lou

Forum Legend
Joined
Jun 8, 2018
Reaction score
12,494
Age
67
Location
San Mateo, Ca
Lifestyle
  1. Vegan
I had the impossible whopper for the first time last weekend and it was excellent. As for asking for it with “no mayo”, apparently it comes with cheese, too? I was grateful that the cashier said, “and no cheese” because based on everything I’ve seen online I didn’t know it came with cheese by default. I brought it home and added daiya cheddar and vegan mayo. I was never a burger fan so I won’t be having this often. But it was good.

Huh. I only had the Impossible Whopper once. Mostly just out of curiosity. I've had the Impossible burger 3 times at "real" restaurants (where you order exactly how you like it ) but although I am a vegan AND connected to the internet I did not know to order it without cheese or mayo. (I can't remember - maybe I ordered it without just out of reflex) . I probably should add that I got the IW during the first week it was available.

Back in the day, I used to eat at Burger King once in a while. And I remember the first month of going meat-free i had cravings for a burger and had a whopper junior. But it didn't end the cravings and I don't think I've had a burger since.

I liked (not loved) the impossible burger at the regular restaurants. that probably had more to do with the fixings ( i had it as part of a salad bowl with spring greens, spinach, mushrooms, onions, etc). I thought the burger itself was too salty. I would eat it again but I won't go out of my way to get one. I did not care for the Impossible Whopper. Probably won't have another one. But still, I'm glad it exists.
 

Andy_T

Little green mod
Staff member
Supporter
Joined
Dec 20, 2014
Reaction score
5,467
Location
Hannover, Germany
Lifestyle
  1. Vegan
So .. I was feeling inquisitive today and only had 30 minutes to get my lunch, so I visited the BurgerKing in walking distance of my office.

Very good news - in Germany they are not allowed to use the kind of broiler conveyors they have in the US as it must be possible to clean the conveyor between preparing two dishes. For that reason, the German version uses little metal pans that are moved through the oven. The store manager assured me that these pans are washed between different batches and that they do not use the same pans for meat and veggie patties, so the risk of cross contamination should be much smaller.

With that assurance, I gave it a try (without the mayo), and lo and behold, it is much better than the McDonalds Big Vegan.
 

Forest Nymph

Forum Legend
Joined
Nov 18, 2017
Reaction score
2,204
Age
40
Location
Northern California
Lifestyle
  1. Vegan
I agree.

Except for the statement "fake meat is made to appeal to omnis." No it's not. Meat analogs were introduced by 7th Day Adventists in the 1920s. It's not some new thing that was invented to combat climate change, although the aggressive fast food marketing is due to that. Vegans or vegetarians who act like vegan meat is some appalling omni crutch are the worst kind of pretentious. Chris from the Vegan Zombie has been vegan 25 years and still prepares vegan meat products. If you don't like it, that's fine, but acting like real vegans only eat salad all day just reinforces stupid stereotypes and eating disorders. Food is psychological as well as physical and people usually enjoy foods similar to those they grew up with, at least as comfort food.
 
  • Like
Reactions: silva

Forest Nymph

Forum Legend
Joined
Nov 18, 2017
Reaction score
2,204
Age
40
Location
Northern California
Lifestyle
  1. Vegan
So .. I was feeling inquisitive today and only had 30 minutes to get my lunch, so I visited the BurgerKing in walking distance of my office.

Very good news - in Germany they are not allowed to use the kind of broiler conveyors they have in the US as it must be possible to clean the conveyor between preparing two dishes. For that reason, the German version uses little metal pans that are moved through the oven. The store manager assured me that these pans are washed between different batches and that they do not use the same pans for meat and veggie patties, so the risk of cross contamination should be much smaller.

With that assurance, I gave it a try (without the mayo), and lo and behold, it is much better than the McDonalds Big Vegan.

I was wondering what the off broiler alternative was. I never liked Burger King so I have not tried an Impossible Whopper, but when I was vegetarian I used to get their microwaved garden burger if I was in a hurry, especially in LA when I was working. I'm like, are they seriously nuking an expensive Impossible Burger. I'm at least relieved that's not the case.
 
OP
OP
nobody

nobody

Forum Legend
Joined
Jul 15, 2017
Reaction score
202
Location
U.S.
I agree.

Except for the statement "fake meat is made to appeal to omnis." No it's not. Meat analogs were introduced by 7th Day Adventists in the 1920s. It's not some new thing that was invented to combat climate change, although the aggressive fast food marketing is due to that. Vegans or vegetarians who act like vegan meat is some appalling omni crutch are the worst kind of pretentious. Chris from the Vegan Zombie has been vegan 25 years and still prepares vegan meat products. If you don't like it, that's fine, but acting like real vegans only eat salad all day just reinforces stupid stereotypes and eating disorders. Food is psychological as well as physical and people usually enjoy foods similar to those they grew up with, at least as comfort food.

Beyond Meat, Impossible Foods and their current "food giant" competitors coming to market with their own versions of fake meat, including "blends" of real meat and fake meat, are all targeted toward omnivores/flexitarians, not vegans.

A whole bunch of fake meat products have come to market from the 1920s to present that are targeted at vegans and vegetarians such as Field Roast, Quorn, Boca, Gardein, Morningstar Farms, etc., but that's not the stuff I meant. I was talking about the current generation, post Beyond/Impossible fake meat. Targeting omnivores is a lot more profitable for companies, so that's why they do it:

This makes good business sense, since 92% of all plant-based meals were eaten by people who aren’t vegan, according to the market research company Kantar Insights. It’s a much more lucrative market to tap into than the approximately 8% of Americans who are vegan or vegetarian.


But targeting omnivores also saves more animals than targeting vegans because vegans are not eating animals anyway, while every piece of fake meat eaten by an omnivore is a piece of real meat replaced on their plate, presumably.

I was wondering what the off broiler alternative was. I never liked Burger King so I have not tried an Impossible Whopper, but when I was vegetarian I used to get their microwaved garden burger if I was in a hurry, especially in LA when I was working. I'm like, are they seriously nuking an expensive Impossible Burger. I'm at least relieved that's not the case.

In America, the off broiler method is to cook the Impossible Burger from raw and frozen in the microwave. They gave me one cooked this way when I went through the drive-thru one day and it looked terrible so I brought it back and they made me a flame broiled one. I didn't ask for the off broiler method but the person making the sandwich was new or something and did it anyway.

In Germany, no off broiler method is necessary due the little pans they put the patties on before sending them through the conveyor belt grill that BK uses. Those metal pans aren't used in the U.S., they just put the frozen patties right on the grill here.
 
OP
OP
nobody

nobody

Forum Legend
Joined
Jul 15, 2017
Reaction score
202
Location
U.S.
I was told it was plant based but technically not vegan as it was cooked on the same grill as meat. To me this doesn't even make it plant based, as I see "plant based" as an all inclusive term, not one based on percentage as some suggest.

By the same token, due to shared equipment there are products widely thought to be vegan/plant based that aren't. For example, the dairy content in "dairy free" dark chocolate can be high enough to cause an allergic reaction:

Unfortunately, you can’t always tell if dark chocolate contains milk by reading the ingredients list. FDA researchers found that of 94 dark chocolate bars tested, only six listed milk as an ingredient. When testing the remaining 88 bars that did not list milk as an ingredient, FDA found that 51 of them actually did contain milk. In fact, the FDA study found milk in 61 percent of all bars tested.

There’s quite a variety of advisory messages, such as:

“may contain milk”

“may contain dairy”

“may contain traces of milk”

“made on equipment shared with milk”

“processed in a plant that processes dairy”

“manufactured in a facility that uses milk”

FDA found that milk was present in 3 out of every 4 dark chocolate products with one of these advisory statements. Some products had milk levels as high as those found in products that declared the presence of milk.

 
  • Informative
Reactions: Emma JC

Forest Nymph

Forum Legend
Joined
Nov 18, 2017
Reaction score
2,204
Age
40
Location
Northern California
Lifestyle
  1. Vegan
In America, the off broiler method is to cook the Impossible Burger from raw and frozen in the microwave. They gave me one cooked this way when I went through the drive-thru one day and it looked terrible so I brought it back and they made me a flame broiled one. I didn't ask for the off broiler method but the person making the sandwich was new or something and did it anyway.

In Germany, no off broiler method is necessary due the little pans they put the patties on before sending them through the conveyor belt grill that BK uses. Those metal pans aren't used in the U.S., they just put the frozen patties right on the grill here.

That's super gross. I never liked Burger King as a child, I think Burger King smells bad, and I think I only went through the weird phase of eating their veggie burgers in LA because they were in an area near where I worked sometimes. I also won't be hightailing it to McDonald's even if they bring their veggie dippers to the US in the near future.

Not because I'm opposed to junk food or even fast food, but because I think those two places are gross. I tend to look for a Taco Bell or a Del Taco in a fast food situation.