Some vegan food packaging is vegan.

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Only some food packaging is vegan. Lets do something about this. + More please read

I have come to realise that only some vegan food packaging is vegan. I recently messaged a UK supermarket to ask if a product in a glass jar with metal lid, but glued label was vegan, as I am aware that some glues are not vegan. They confirmed that the glue in the label contains casein from milk, so it is not vegan. This product clearly says it is vegan on the label though! I guess they can say that if the food is vegan, but if it is a vegan food then it should have to be packaged in vegan materials. Only some vegan food is packaged in vegan materials though. Let me go through all the materials used.

Plastic. Some plastics such as plastic bags are not vegan as they contain 'slip agents', which are derived from the stearic acid in animal fat such as beef fat (tallow). Stearates comprise approximately 100200 ppm in typical raw polyethylene for example. Many products such as frozen foods and drinks bottles are packed in polyethylene. These products are often marked as being vegan. Shopping bags from supermarkets also contain slip agents I believe.
Even if the plastic happens to be vegan, it could be printed on with a non vegan ink. Modern mass-market inks are generally petroleum oil based but sometimes contain animal bone char, glycerin from animal fat, gelatin from hooves, or shellac from beetles. If not printed directly onto the plastic, these animal products in the ink may be on the sticky labels used on many plastic products, this could be on plastics used for food or for any other plastic products. These sticky labels can contain bone parts or gelatine in the glue, or like the jarred product i mentioned earlier casein from milk. I believe it is very very rare for a vegan plastic to be used for a product with only a vegan ink such as petroleum oil based used to label it , but if that does happen, despite being vegan there is still the bad environmental impact to consider from using these materials. Other vegan inks are made such as vegetable or water based ink, though as far as i know these are quite rare at this point in time.

Paper/card. Paper and card as far as I'm aware are generally vegan, though sometimes they may contain animal products. The problem can again be with the printing onto these materials and labelling. Non vegan inks and sticky labels like I described for the plastic products may be used.

Glass, aluminium/tin cans and other materials such as compostable food packaging also suffer from this. Despite all of these materials being vegan, these have the same problem, non vegan inks and sticky labels may be used. Other Aluminium products, such as beer cans, kegs, drums and larger tins e.g for olive oil can be directly printed onto. Methods for this include: continuous inket - the ink may not be vegan. Laser printing - this may use no animal products, i've searched for this but as of right now cannot find a definite answer. On the wiki page for beverage can printing, it says the coatings on metals tend to fall into two categories: thermoplastic or thermoset. Under the types of thermoplastics also listed on wikipedia, there are vegan substances such as acrylic and substances which are generally non vegan such as polyethylene. So I guess thermosplastic coatings could be vegan or non vegan. For thermoset I can't find a definite answer. Both solvent based and UV inks are also available for decorating coated metals. Again I can't find out right now whether these processes use animal products or not. If anyone can help me find out whether laser, thermoset, UV or solvent printing use animal products I would appreciate it. Beer cans also usually come packed in plastic film that has been printed on and are unlikely vegan. If you could find a vegan beer can you would probably have to buy single cans.

I have contacted a well known vegan food company tonight to find out whether their packaging is vegan. They use inks to print on their packaging and plastic, both which may not be vegan. I have suggested to them that they start using vegan friendly packaging if they aren't already. I'm intrigued to hear what they say. I will likely be contacting more vegan food companies.

I have found a few manufacturers of vegan friendly packaging online, but I'm unable to find any food available to buy packaged in their products at the minute. This however shows it is possible. We need to demand the change from vegan food companies to use vegan packaging if these alternatives are available.

I'm even thinking of starting a petition to make it compulsory for vegan products to be packaged in vegan materials - if anyone here has ever started one before and would like to help me with this then let me know. I don't think most vegans are aware of this problem, i think if something says it is vegan on the packet they don't think about it. But as I have mentioned products labelled as vegan may still contain animal products in the packaging. All vegans must strive to eliminate this - how could they not want to?

The only downside I have found detailed on a vegan packaging companies website is that sourcing vegan materials is very labour and energy-intensive. This may result in a larger expenditure of fossil fuel compared to using animal by-products which is readily available.

On the other hand, the reason why animal by-products are readily available is because the demand is high. If companies like you and us start using more vegan products, they could eventually be a readily available material. Also, the huge impact of animal farming/livestock breeding and the resulting by-products cannot be ignored.

Worryingly, the fact that most packaging contains non vegan materials, applies to nearly all products you can buy on Earth, not just vegan foods. Hopefully as more of us become aware of this, the more we can start to ask for it to be changed.

I have been trying to figure out how to reduce the amount of animal based products in the food packaging I buy.
So far the only way we have found this may be possible is if we look for a vegan beer packed in a vegan can! Good luck with that.. I have turned to wholesalers, looking for bulk produce packed in paper/card as this is less likely to contain animal products. These usually have labels on but if they aren't vegan then at least the amount of non vegan packaging is reduced significantly.. Looking for local wholesalers rather than having wholesale produce delivered from far away online, and trying to choose food that is grown as locally as possible reduces the environmental impact too.
It must be remembered that environmental damage causes much harm to animals. This should be a huge incentive (this is as well as being bad for the planet in general)
for all vegans to be as environmentally friendly as possible at all times, although I believe many vegans and non vegans alike are becoming increasingly concerned about the way they effect the environment. Buying in this way from local wholesalers may have positives for these reasons, however what if all vegans did this? If the vegan companies who supply products to shops no longer had anyone buying their products the shops would no longer stock them and they would go bust. This of course would not be what we want, but if we are to continue to support them we must do something as soon as possible to change their packaging to be vegan friendly. In fact you could argue only then could they claim to be vegan companies.

Now that we have established that pretty much all food contains animals products, if not in the food then in what the food comes in, this raises a question - should i aim to buy and eat less food if I am a vegan? You could say all food you buy, or even almost anything you buy contributes to animal suffering. Should you never leave the house? the more you get out and move your body the more calories you will burn and the more food you will require to survive. For example if you are used to going for runs that are several miles long, must you stop doing this now? Should you also become a minimalist who buys as little as possible. If you don't do these things then you are arguably contributing to more animal deaths.

Another problem along with what I have said already, concerns again whether total veganism is even possible.
This is because even in plant food crops animals are killed. However it is still by far the best option as the number killed is generally, far less. This is something that is outlined here: Animal Visuals: Number of Animals Killed By Slaughter and Harvest in Eight Food Categories This link also contains an interesting study.
This study shows that animal lives could actually be saved by plant crops! Its not definitive but this is what it says. In the study, 33 field mice were fitted with radio collars and tracked before and after harvest. The researchers found that only 3 percent of them were actually killed by the combine harvester (amounting to one mouse). An additional 52 percent of them (17 mice) were killed following harvest by predators such as owls and weasels, possibly due to their loss of the crop cover. It is unknown how many of these mice would have been eaten by owls or weasels anyway.

Another potential problem I have encountered is with water supply. My local water supply adds chlorine to the water. As far as I know this is common practice worldwide. The water supply is an essential part of life from whether you choose to drink it, for bathing, household cleaning, for growing crops etc. Is this chlorine tested on animals? I have emailed my local water supplier about this some time ago but I am yet to receive a reply. Can anyone confirm this? Animal testing is something else that needs to be ended as soon as possible, I will look for any petitions about this soon and post them back here once I find them. Something needs to be done. If I can't find any I will start one. On the subject of animal testing I have found some household cleaning products in some supermarkets that are vegan and aren't tested on animals, however the packaging again as far as i know probably isn't vegan. I guess we should buy and support these products, whilst encouraging them to change the packaging, like with the food. I'll link these products here later on request.

Something else we can do to reduce animal deaths would be to recycle as much as possible. As well as reducing environmental impact this can save animal lives if you recycle a products packaging that may contain animal products such as a polyethylene drinks bottle or plastic bag. Whilst I hope we can do something to stop these materials being used if you have any of these items then recycle them - it should reduce the need to make new ones, which would be at the cost of animal lives.
Recycling any material is something positive people seem to be doing, and seems to be increasing. I hope this continues.


There are some more positives I've seen people doing recently.
Tesco for example in the UK are planning to eliminate plastic packaging and I hope stickers too on fruit and veg I believe. This even includes the plastic packaging the fruit and veg is transported in I think. I saw in a different supermarket recently loose veg was still picked out of a relatively small plastic bag that it must have been transported to the store in. This plastic is likely bad for the environment and as its a bag it also likely contains animal products. We need to encourage more shops to stop using them as well as stickers on fruit and veg. This would be a step in the right direction in my opinion. I have already seen many people want to use less plastic.
Switching to green energy is another positive along with green alternatives like electric cars. More people are interested in becoming zero waste, which is another thing that is positive, however at the minute it is hard to achieve fully. For example the shops they buy from are likely just buying bulk bags and decanting them into plastic dispensers. The dispensers could be seen as bad as they are usually plastic, and the bulk bags they've emptied out and any labels on them may not be recyclable which does create waste, this packaging again may not be vegan. Some zero waste shops require you to print labels for anything you buy, potentially creating waste. If you are buying from an online zero waste shop you have to take into account the effect on the environment of all the deliveries if they are coming from a long distance away too. If you are making trips to a zero waste shop often in a vehicle this could still be considered a problem somewhat which could be reduced by going to a wholesaler and buying similar items in bulk, this could save money as well, however if a large variety of products was wanted this may not be considered an option. Recycling as I mentioned is a positive people are doing, a form of this that many trying to live zero waste are doing is composting. I have found conflicting views on whether this is considered vegan or not when using worms however i think there are forms of composting that don't even require them. Can anyone confirm? I need to look into this. Another positive is the number of vegans is increasing all the time. Of course with this the demand for vegan products increases and more vegan products are made. The fact there are more vegans than ever now means that more can be done to create change. If even 1% of vegans took action on important issues then that would be quite a lot of people and because of this significant changes could be possible. I will look for petitions on animal testing. I will start one to make vegan packaging compulsory on vegan food. Vegans are being mislead about this, once they realise the packaging on the food they buy isn't vegan they must want to do something about it surely?
I hope we can do something about this.

Another thing I have seen that I hope increases is BioCyclic farming. Biocyclic vegan agriculture means purely plant-based organic farming. This form of cultivation excludes all commercial livestock farming and slaughtering of animals and does not use any inputs of animal origin. I really hope this becomes the future of farming.
Most of the Biocyclic farms are in Europe outside the UK, so in the UK it is hard to find any that you can support. However if you are reading this and you are located
in the same country as a Biocyclic farm and are able to support it, please do. We must help them grow as much a possible. The number has increased slightly over the last few years and I hope more and more are made. I really hope they are the future of farming.

Its good to see these positive changes. However there are a few more things I have found that could cause concern for people trying to be vegan.

Construction materials can be problematic, as can electronics. As for building materials, I have found this information:
such as phones and laptops.
LCD screens contain animal cholesterol. Timber, and wood, especially if it is reclaimed. These sorts
Batteries contain gelatine. of woods are often treated with by products from the animal industry, so it isn’t necessarily going to be Vegan.
Ox blood and glues containing animal fats are often found in older pieces of timber.
Cutting down trees for new wood can also be bad, in doing
so you’re removing the natural habitat of birds, insects and other woodland creatures. Though avoiding this is hard.
The humble brick - used for a good deal of new household construction often contains animal blood or fat in its mixture to help preserve it and to give it a longer life span.
Finally, there’s steel. Steel has longevity, as well as being recyclable, but its look may not be to everyone's taste.
Animal fats such as gelatine are used in it’s production, so therefore, it also is not suitable for anyone who is a vegan.

Steel is used in many everyday products not just building materials.
As I have stated earlier almost anything you can buy on Earth currently likely contains something not vegan in either the materials or the packaging.

Clothing is another example. Vegan clothes brands are still in the minority unfortunately but the number of vegan clothes brands is increasing.
Primark is a store in the UK that since 2020 has been certified as vegan since 2020.
although I need to find out if they have the same problem as vegan food - packaging.
I've noticed their paper bags have coloured ink printed on them which may not be vegan.
This could be the case with their price tags and clothing labels as well, I will try and find out.
But as far as I'm aware they are the only store in the UK certified as vegan, at least for a
retail chain store. More stores should follow this example.

Sorry for such a lengthy post. I hope all the positives people are doing keep increasing, I believe they will.
All the problems I have mentioned are a shame, but I believe they can all be changed if we take action. I am trying to find somewhere where I can find people who want to change such things. That's how I got here. I believe the world can be changed into a much better place, but we all need to play our part. The increase in number of vegans
for example gives me hope for the future, we must spread the word about the things we need to change and keep encouraging all of the positive things people are doing.

Great changes are always possible, this has been seen throughout history.

I have left out the sources for some of the information I have included in this post. If you want me to look any of these up, then let me know. I will try my best to find them for you. If you took the time to read this whole post,
Thank you.
 
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Lastly, I forgot to include possible alternatives for the non vegan materials used in electronics.

This is a tablet that uses a screen different to an LCD. I'm not sure if this type of screen is vegan right now. I will try and find. out. There may be some animal products in the rest of this device, but if the screen is vegan then that type of screen could be used to create a fully vegan product in the future. It at least shows it is possible to make a screen that isn't an LCD, so surely out of all the materials on Earth it must be possible to make a vegan one?

Recyclable ’veggie’ battery could power future devices This is an interesting article about a vegan battery that has been created that has the potential to be used in things like laptops, mobile phones, smart watches, and electric vehicles.

This gives me hope for the future of electronics. There has to be a better way than the products that are available at the minute.
 
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I have noticed one of the paragraphs in my original post has unfortunately rearranged slightly after posting. While it is likely you will still get the gist of what I was trying to say if you read it I am going to post it again now so that it reads correctly.

Construction materials can be problematic, as can electronics,
such as phones and laptops.
LCD screens contain animal cholesterol.
Batteries contain gelatine.

As for building materials, I have found this information:
Timber, and wood, especially if it is reclaimed can be a problem. These sorts
of woods are often treated with by products from the animal industry, so it isn’t necessarily going to be Vegan.
Ox blood and glues containing animal fats are often found in older pieces of timber.
Cutting down trees for new wood can also be bad, in doing
so you’re removing the natural habitat of birds, insects and other woodland creatures. Though avoiding this is hard. A world where we cut down no trees may be impossible. Who knows though, maybe in the future we will stop doing this.
The humble brick - used for a good deal of new household construction often contains animal blood or fat in its mixture to help preserve it and to give it a longer life span.
Finally, there’s steel. Steel has longevity, as well as being recyclable, but its look may not be to everyone's taste.
Animal fats such as gelatine are used in it’s production, so therefore, it also is not suitable for anyone who is a vegan.

I hope that makes more sense.

Again, if you took the time to read all this,
Thank you.

I look forward to reading any responses.
 
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digitarian

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no plastic is vegan as it comes from the remains of dead plants and animals. If you worry about packaging (like I do) - it's best to bring your own from home-grown plants - like your own linen cloth to fill beans with for instance. Or you can go without - for me that involves foraging.
 
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digitarian

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I have noticed one of the paragraphs in my original post has unfortunately rearranged slightly after posting. While it is likely you will still get the gist of what I was trying to say if you read it I am going to post it again now so that it reads correctly.

Construction materials can be problematic, as can electronics,
such as phones and laptops.
LCD screens contain animal cholesterol.
Batteries contain gelatine.

As for building materials, I have found this information:
Timber, and wood, especially if it is reclaimed can be a problem. These sorts
of woods are often treated with by products from the animal industry, so it isn’t necessarily going to be Vegan.
Ox blood and glues containing animal fats are often found in older pieces of timber.
Cutting down trees for new wood can also be bad, in doing
so you’re removing the natural habitat of birds, insects and other woodland creatures. Though avoiding this is hard. A world where we cut down no trees may be impossible. Who knows though, maybe in the future we will stop doing this.
The humble brick - used for a good deal of new household construction often contains animal blood or fat in its mixture to help preserve it and to give it a longer life span.
Finally, there’s steel. Steel has longevity, as well as being recyclable, but its look may not be to everyone's taste.
Animal fats such as gelatine are used in it’s production, so therefore, it also is not suitable for anyone who is a vegan.

I hope that makes more sense.

Again, if you took the time to read all this,
Thank you.

I look forward to reading any responses.
For wood - there are definitely species or those that inhibit ecosystem growth -
. Sometimes they're invasive. Many places have trees that leads to a lack of biodiversity or are being infested - it's not a bad thing to use these trees. Not only that, but a lot of dead branches and trees are tinder for wildfires and so are fine to make stuff with them. These really dry places don't even allow for moss or fungal growth - where I live, they're bone dry - so it's not an issue to take from these either. To encourage animal life in harsh places isn't even healthy for animals - as I see many dead animals near these plants - and removing that source keeps them away from what's dangerous.

What I'm trying to say is that if you work with nature - tending to trees where it fosters growth of an ecosystem - it would actually be more vegan than to do nothing in my opinion.
 

FlandersOD

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Alot of this stuff seams like just a way to destroy as much of the planet as possible as quickly as possible.
 

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The OP says vegan products often come in non-vegan packaging. This is a fair issue of concern. Probably a petition-worthy issue.

However.. I would just point out that if you buy things like the Impossible Burger or the Beyond Meat burger so that demand for animal products goes down as these products succeed and spread through markets (hopefully), there will be less animal by-products for sale on the market to use on packaging.

Like... the animal by-products presumably only exist on the market because people are buying the rest of the animal's body parts for food in the first place. So the best way to get rid of the trade in animal by-products (in packaging or anything else) is to get rid of the trade in animal foods by supporting the most promising animal food substitutes (Beyond Meat, Impossible Foods, Miyokos, etc..)

Some people have suggested the idea of a meat tax to bring the price of a Beyond Meat burger closer to the price of factory farmed meat. That would be a good policy. A public policy that would probably be politically easier to enact in law would be to simply subsidize stuff like Beyond Meat & Impossible Foods.
 

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Literally no vegan food packaging is vegan. Lets do something about this. + More please read.

I have come to realise that literally no vegan food packaging is vegan. I recently messaged a UK supermarket to ask if a product in a glass jar with metal lid, but glued label was vegan, as I am aware that some glues are not vegan. They confirmed that the glue in the label contains casein from milk, so it is not vegan. This product clearly says it is vegan on the label though! I guess they can say that if the food is vegan, but if it is a vegan food then it should have to be packaged in vegan materials. Literally no vegan food is packaged in vegan materials though. Let me go through all the materials used.

Plastic. Some plastics such as plastic bags are not vegan as they contain 'slip agents', which are derived from the stearic acid in animal fat such as beef fat (tallow). Stearates comprise approximately 100200 ppm in typical raw polyethylene for example. Many products such as frozen foods and drinks bottles are packed in polyethylene. These products are often marked as being vegan. Shopping bags from supermarkets also contain slip agents I believe.
Even if the plastic happens to be vegan, it could be printed on with a non vegan ink. Modern mass-market inks are generally petroleum oil based but sometimes contain animal bone char, glycerin from animal fat, gelatin from hooves, or shellac from beetles. If not printed directly onto the plastic, these animal products in the ink may be on the sticky labels used on many plastic products, this could be on plastics used for food or for any other plastic products. These sticky labels can contain bone parts or gelatine in the glue, or like the jarred product i mentioned earlier casein from milk. I believe it is very very rare for a vegan plastic to be used for a product with only a vegan ink such as petroleum oil based used to label it , but if that does happen, despite being vegan there is still the bad environmental impact to consider from using these materials. Other vegan inks are made such as vegetable or water based ink, though as far as i know these are quite rare at this point in time.

Paper/card. Paper and card as far as I'm aware are generally vegan, though sometimes they may contain animal products. The problem can again be with the printing onto these materials and labelling. Non vegan inks and sticky labels like I described for the plastic products may be used.

Glass, aluminium/tin cans and other materials such as compostable food packaging also suffer from this. Despite all of these materials being vegan, these have the same problem, non vegan inks and sticky labels may be used. Other Aluminium products, such as beer cans, kegs, drums and larger tins e.g for olive oil can be directly printed onto. Methods for this include: continuous inket - the ink may not be vegan. Laser printing - this may use no animal products, i've searched for this but as of right now cannot find a definite answer. On the wiki page for beverage can printing, it says the coatings on metals tend to fall into two categories: thermoplastic or thermoset. Under the types of thermoplastics also listed on wikipedia, there are vegan substances such as acrylic and substances which are generally non vegan such as polyethylene. So I guess thermosplastic coatings could be vegan or non vegan. For thermoset I can't find a definite answer. Both solvent based and UV inks are also available for decorating coated metals. Again I can't find out right now whether these processes use animal products or not. If anyone can help me find out whether laser, thermoset, UV or solvent printing use animal products I would appreciate it. Beer cans also usually come packed in plastic film that has been printed on and are unlikely vegan. If you could find a vegan beer can you would probably have to buy single cans.

I have contacted a well known vegan food company tonight to find out whether their packaging is vegan. They use inks to print on their packaging and plastic, both which may not be vegan. I have suggested to them that they start using vegan friendly packaging if they aren't already. I'm intrigued to hear what they say. I will likely be contacting more vegan food companies.

I have found a few manufacturers of vegan friendly packaging online, but I'm unable to find any food available to buy packaged in their products at the minute. This however shows it is possible. We need to demand the change from vegan food companies to use vegan packaging if these alternatives are available.

I'm even thinking of starting a petition to make it compulsory for vegan products to be packaged in vegan materials - if anyone here has ever started one before and would like to help me with this then let me know. I don't think most vegans are aware of this problem, i think if something says it is vegan on the packet they don't think about it. But as I have mentioned products labelled as vegan may still contain animal products in the packaging. All vegans must strive to eliminate this - how could they not want to?

The only downside I have found detailed on a vegan packaging companies website is that sourcing vegan materials is very labour and energy-intensive. This may result in a larger expenditure of fossil fuel compared to using animal by-products which is readily available.

On the other hand, the reason why animal by-products are readily available is because the demand is high. If companies like you and us start using more vegan products, they could eventually be a readily available material. Also, the huge impact of animal farming/livestock breeding and the resulting by-products cannot be ignored.

Worryingly, the fact that most packaging contains non vegan materials, applies to nearly all products you can buy on Earth, not just vegan foods. Hopefully as more of us become aware of this, the more we can start to ask for it to be changed.

I have been trying to figure out how to reduce the amount of animal based products in the food packaging I buy.
So far the only way we have found this may be possible is if we look for a vegan beer packed in a vegan can! Good luck with that.. I have turned to wholesalers, looking for bulk produce packed in paper/card as this is less likely to contain animal products. These usually have labels on but if they aren't vegan then at least the amount of non vegan packaging is reduced significantly.. Looking for local wholesalers rather than having wholesale produce delivered from far away online, and trying to choose food that is grown as locally as possible reduces the environmental impact too.
It must be remembered that environmental damage causes much harm to animals. This should be a huge incentive (this is as well as being bad for the planet in general)
for all vegans to be as environmentally friendly as possible at all times, although I believe many vegans and non vegans alike are becoming increasingly concerned about the way they effect the environment. Buying in this way from local wholesalers may have positives for these reasons, however what if all vegans did this? If the vegan companies who supply products to shops no longer had anyone buying their products the shops would no longer stock them and they would go bust. This of course would not be what we want, but if we are to continue to support them we must do something as soon as possible to change their packaging to be vegan friendly. In fact you could argue only then could they claim to be vegan companies.

Now that we have established that pretty much all food contains animals products, if not in the food then in what the food comes in, this raises a question - should i aim to buy and eat less food if I am a vegan? You could say all food you buy, or even almost anything you buy contributes to animal suffering. Should you never leave the house? the more you get out and move your body the more calories you will burn and the more food you will require to survive. For example if you are used to going for runs that are several miles long, must you stop doing this now? Should you also become a minimalist who buys as little as possible. If you don't do these things then you are arguably contributing to more animal deaths.

Another problem along with what I have said already, concerns again whether total veganism is even possible.
This is because even in plant food crops animals are killed. However it is still by far the best option as the number killed is generally, far less. This is something that is outlined here: Animal Visuals: Number of Animals Killed By Slaughter and Harvest in Eight Food Categories This link also contains an interesting study.
This study shows that animal lives could actually be saved by plant crops! Its not definitive but this is what it says. In the study, 33 field mice were fitted with radio collars and tracked before and after harvest. The researchers found that only 3 percent of them were actually killed by the combine harvester (amounting to one mouse). An additional 52 percent of them (17 mice) were killed following harvest by predators such as owls and weasels, possibly due to their loss of the crop cover. It is unknown how many of these mice would have been eaten by owls or weasels anyway.

Another potential problem I have encountered is with water supply. My local water supply adds chlorine to the water. As far as I know this is common practice worldwide. The water supply is an essential part of life from whether you choose to drink it, for bathing, household cleaning, for growing crops etc. Is this chlorine tested on animals? I have emailed my local water supplier about this some time ago but I am yet to receive a reply. Can anyone confirm this? Animal testing is something else that needs to be ended as soon as possible, I will look for any petitions about this soon and post them back here once I find them. Something needs to be done. If I can't find any I will start one. On the subject of animal testing I have found some household cleaning products in some supermarkets that are vegan and aren't tested on animals, however the packaging again as far as i know probably isn't vegan. I guess we should buy and support these products, whilst encouraging them to change the packaging, like with the food. I'll link these products here later on request.

Something else we can do to reduce animal deaths would be to recycle as much as possible. As well as reducing environmental impact this can save animal lives if you recycle a products packaging that may contain animal products such as a polyethylene drinks bottle or plastic bag. Whilst I hope we can do something to stop these materials being used if you have any of these items then recycle them - it should reduce the need to make new ones, which would be at the cost of animal lives.
Recycling any material is something positive people seem to be doing, and seems to be increasing. I hope this continues.


There are some more positives I've seen people doing recently.
Tesco for example in the UK are planning to eliminate plastic packaging and I hope stickers too on fruit and veg I believe. This even includes the plastic packaging the fruit and veg is transported in I think. I saw in a different supermarket recently loose veg was still picked out of a relatively small plastic bag that it must have been transported to the store in. This plastic is likely bad for the environment and as its a bag it also likely contains animal products. We need to encourage more shops to stop using them as well as stickers on fruit and veg. This would be a step in the right direction in my opinion. I have already seen many people want to use less plastic.
Switching to green energy is another positive along with green alternatives like electric cars. More people are interested in becoming zero waste, which is another thing that is positive, however at the minute it is hard to achieve fully. For example the shops they buy from are likely just buying bulk bags and decanting them into plastic dispensers. The dispensers could be seen as bad as they are usually plastic, and the bulk bags they've emptied out and any labels on them may not be recyclable which does create waste, this packaging again may not be vegan. Some zero waste shops require you to print labels for anything you buy, potentially creating waste. If you are buying from an online zero waste shop you have to take into account the effect on the environment of all the deliveries if they are coming from a long distance away too. If you are making trips to a zero waste shop often in a vehicle this could still be considered a problem somewhat which could be reduced by going to a wholesaler and buying similar items in bulk, this could save money as well, however if a large variety of products was wanted this may not be considered an option. Recycling as I mentioned is a positive people are doing, a form of this that many trying to live zero waste are doing is composting. I have found conflicting views on whether this is considered vegan or not when using worms however i think there are forms of composting that don't even require them. Can anyone confirm? I need to look into this. Another positive is the number of vegans is increasing all the time. Of course with this the demand for vegan products increases and more vegan products are made. The fact there are more vegans than ever now means that more can be done to create change. If even 1% of vegans took action on important issues then that would be quite a lot of people and because of this significant changes could be possible. I will look for petitions on animal testing. I will start one to make vegan packaging compulsory on vegan food. Vegans are being mislead about this, once they realise the packaging on the food they buy isn't vegan they must want to do something about it surely?
I hope we can do something about this.

Another thing I have seen that I hope increases is BioCyclic farming. Biocyclic vegan agriculture means purely plant-based organic farming. This form of cultivation excludes all commercial livestock farming and slaughtering of animals and does not use any inputs of animal origin. I really hope this becomes the future of farming.
Most of the Biocyclic farms are in Europe outside the UK, so in the UK it is hard to find any that you can support. However if you are reading this and you are located
in the same country as a Biocyclic farm and are able to support it, please do. We must help them grow as much a possible. The number has increased slightly over the last few years and I hope more and more are made. I really hope they are the future of farming.

Its good to see these positive changes. However there are a few more things I have found that could cause concern for people trying to be vegan.

Construction materials can be problematic, as can electronics. As for building materials, I have found this information:
such as phones and laptops.
LCD screens contain animal cholesterol. Timber, and wood, especially if it is reclaimed. These sorts
Batteries contain gelatine. of woods are often treated with by products from the animal industry, so it isn’t necessarily going to be Vegan.
Ox blood and glues containing animal fats are often found in older pieces of timber.
Cutting down trees for new wood can also be bad, in doing
so you’re removing the natural habitat of birds, insects and other woodland creatures. Though avoiding this is hard.
The humble brick - used for a good deal of new household construction often contains animal blood or fat in its mixture to help preserve it and to give it a longer life span.
Finally, there’s steel. Steel has longevity, as well as being recyclable, but its look may not be to everyone's taste.
Animal fats such as gelatine are used in it’s production, so therefore, it also is not suitable for anyone who is a vegan.

Steel is used in many everyday products not just building materials.
As I have stated earlier almost anything you can buy on Earth currently likely contains something not vegan in either the materials or the packaging.

Clothing is another example. Vegan clothes brands are still in the minority unfortunately but the number of vegan clothes brands is increasing.
Primark is a store in the UK that since 2020 has been certified as vegan since 2020.
although I need to find out if they have the same problem as vegan food - packaging.
I've noticed their paper bags have coloured ink printed on them which may not be vegan.
This could be the case with their price tags and clothing labels as well, I will try and find out.
But as far as I'm aware they are the only store in the UK certified as vegan, at least for a
retail chain store. More stores should follow this example.

Sorry for such a lengthy post. I hope all the positives people are doing keep increasing, I believe they will.
All the problems I have mentioned are a shame, but I believe they can all be changed if we take action. I am trying to find somewhere where I can find people who want to change such things. That's how I got here. I believe the world can be changed into a much better place, but we all need to play our part. The increase in number of vegans
for example gives me hope for the future, we must spread the word about the things we need to change and keep encouraging all of the positive things people are doing.

Great changes are always possible, this has been seen throughout history.

I have left out the sources for some of the information I have included in this post. If you want me to look any of these up, then let me know. I will try my best to find them for you. If you took the time to read this whole post,
Thank you.
Hi, you make some very good points which are certainly unnerving.
There is a diagram I have seen some omnivores pass around that shows a cow and all of the myriad of products made from the dead parts of the cow. The rendering industry does boil down the body remains and sells the fat, bones, and other parts to partly make roof tiles, dog and cat food,
car tires, carpet, dish detergent, drugs, and many other items. The title of the diagram is "products made from cattle--conclusion
there is no such thing as a vegan". See the link below for the diagram, scroll down half the page to find it.
Now, lets understand that the omnivore world, in consuming 70 billion land animals, creates the absolute need to recycle the trillions of tons of
animal parts in rendering plants considered "inedible". If there are no land animals slaughtered, there is no need to recycle their blood, bones, flesh, organs, etcetera.
However, it is true that so many products of all kinds besides the edible one's, are using animal ingredients even if vegans are not
eating them. Vegans are not directly causing these products to be made, yet we may often end up using the plastics, etcetera.
I believe if there we no animal offal needing to be recycled, there would be a myriad of plant-based alternatives created.
Veganic farming is completely viable and healthy, for instance (yet some believe soil needs animal manure, bones, and blood for growing
foods).
The point of these defensive arguments, is, why bother, right?. This argument is trying to cover up any empathy and compassion
that vegans show towards animals, and put vegans on the defensive. This argument, of course, typically completely lacks emotion and empathy
for the animals that are 'recycled". They are mere objects, offal (awful) of what is left after human meat needs. They are deflecting participation in
the violence of eating animals away from that willing omnivore, and excusing it by not discussing it.
Why bother to send your children to school when some may end up dropping out?. Why bother to adopt an older shelter animal
when they will die anyway. Why bother to save a drowning animal, when it may risk your own life. Why bother to go hunting when you
will likely miss most of the time (I know, this is stupid), why bother to take care of a relative who is older and can die very soon, why bother to try something new when you are likely to be lousy at it, why bother to go out on a date/get married, when so many do not succeed?, why bother to try to lose weight/kick a drug or alcohol habit/make a new years' resolution, when most people fail at it?. And, the diagram focus is, why bother being vegan when so many products you innocently use (not eat), have some animal parts within them?.
Humans who are threatened by a vegan message will find ways to demean and degrade veganism in some way. Yet they never seem to
approach their excuses by talking about empathy and compassion, which is lacking when someone enslaves or slaughters an animal to consume it.
No matter how many times a vegan says, "doing the least harm", some others do not want to hear that. Because those other humans DO directly harm and do not want to acknowledge and agree with that, so they put the mirror on someone else besides themselves. cheers.
 

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scroll down 1/2 way to see... the diagram
There are synthetic alternatives to most/all of those things. One in particular I can speak about is the "instrument strings" one -- because I used to play the violin. It's true there is such a thing as gut core strings. It's also true that most music students play with steel core strings... or as they get a bit more into music, synthetic core strings.

Yeah, gut core strings exist, but you don't have to use those..

I get the impression people post memes like this saying animal products are in everything because they want to just throw their hands up and say it's impossible to try to live a more ethical lifestyle, and thus excuse themselves from even making any effort. They just want vegans to shut up so they can go back to eating hamburgers and not caring.

Also, I doubt cows would be raised and killed just to make consumer products like this if everyone was vegan in the first place. If everyone was vegan, the cost of raising cows to produce all of these other consumer products would go way up without all the money coming from people buying meat. And then manufacturers of these other consumer products would have new motivation to look for cheaper synthetic alternatives.
 

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Absolutely. The issue of recycling animal parts relates to plastic bags. If we do not take plastic shopping bags
from the store we do not need to recycle them...if we do not raise billions of animals for human consumption,
we will have no need to recycle their bodies.
This criticism used in the meme is an excuse for that person to continue their behavior, by focusing on
another person's (vegan) being imperfect, which justifies their eating animals as okay and justified.
I essentially stated this in my previous comment.
Their meme is saying that vegans are wasting their time and are imperfect. So why bother saving animals,
we might as well eat them.
On another site one commentor to an article stated that they knew all vegan women own leather handbags and shoes, so he
stated, why don't they just eat meat?. Completely emotionless comment.
 
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Lou

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The Thing to keep in mind is veganism does not say, "at all costs", it says what is possible and practicable.
It also states that intending not to exploit animals is what a vegan does.
by extrapolation you can figure that non-intentional things does not make a person not a vegan.

In one of Goudreux's books she explains it this way. Compassion is the Goal. A vegan lifestyle is the path.
 

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no plastic is vegan as it comes from the remains of dead plants and animals. If you worry about packaging (like I do) - it's best to bring your own from home-grown plants - like your own linen cloth to fill beans with for instance. Or you can go without - for me that involves foraging.
.
Dead plants aren't vegan?

Conventional plastic is made from petroleum-derived chemicals. Yes, petroleum is the million-year-old remains of long-dead animals. Let's be reasonable here.
.
 

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I have noticed one of the paragraphs in my original post has unfortunately rearranged slightly after posting. While it is likely you will still get the gist of what I was trying to say if you read it I am going to post it again now so that it reads correctly.

Construction materials can be problematic, as can electronics,
such as phones and laptops.
LCD screens contain animal cholesterol.
Batteries contain gelatine.

As for building materials, I have found this information:
Timber, and wood, especially if it is reclaimed can be a problem. These sorts
of woods are often treated with by products from the animal industry, so it isn’t necessarily going to be Vegan.
Ox blood and glues containing animal fats are often found in older pieces of timber.
Cutting down trees for new wood can also be bad, in doing
so you’re removing the natural habitat of birds, insects and other woodland creatures. Though avoiding this is hard. A world where we cut down no trees may be impossible. Who knows though, maybe in the future we will stop doing this.
The humble brick - used for a good deal of new household construction often contains animal blood or fat in its mixture to help preserve it and to give it a longer life span.
Finally, there’s steel. Steel has longevity, as well as being recyclable, but its look may not be to everyone's taste.
Animal fats such as gelatine are used in it’s production, so therefore, it also is not suitable for anyone who is a vegan.

I hope that makes more sense.

Again, if you took the time to read all this,
Thank you.

I look forward to reading any responses.
.
I'm guessing that you got this from a vegan blog. Please bear in mind that blogs are of mixed reliability.

Please consider these facts and sources:

Your statement: "LCD screens contain animal cholesterol"
 
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David3

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The humble brick - used for a good deal of new household construction often contains animal blood or fat in its mixture to help preserve it and to give it a longer life span.
.
.
How is animal blood or fat going to help preserve something?? Blood and fat are biodegradable.
.
 

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On another site one commentor to an article stated that they knew all vegan women own leather handbags and shoes, so he
stated, why don't they just eat meat?. Completely emotionless comment.
Maybe the primary reason those women are vegans is for their own health. There are lots of good reasons to be vegan even aside from ethical issues.

Or maybe they are vegans who wrongly think that the leather used in shoes is "just a by-product of the meat industry" so there's little wrong with using it even if they are vegan for ethical reasons. (I have come to disagree with such reasoning, but there are people who think this way.)

.
Dead plants aren't vegan?

Conventional plastic is made from petroleum-derived chemicals. Yes, petroleum is the million-year-old remains of long-dead animals. Let's be reasonable here.
.
Well, some % of the dirt in my organic vegetable garden that grows my tomatoes might contain dead animal remains from 500 years ago. That doesn't mean growing my tomatoes in it contributes to the suffering of those animals...

Likewise, using petroleum that results from the remains of animals that died millions of years ago has nothing to do with animal suffering.
 

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Only some food packaging is vegan. Lets do something about this. + More please read

I have come to realise that only some vegan food packaging is vegan. I recently messaged a UK supermarket to ask if a product in a glass jar with metal lid, but glued label was vegan, as I am aware that some glues are not vegan. They confirmed that the glue in the label contains casein from milk, so it is not vegan. This product clearly says it is vegan on the label though! I guess they can say that if the food is vegan, but if it is a vegan food then it should have to be packaged in vegan materials. Only some vegan food is packaged in vegan materials though. Let me go through all the materials used.

Plastic. Some plastics such as plastic bags are not vegan as they contain 'slip agents', which are derived from the stearic acid in animal fat such as beef fat (tallow). Stearates comprise approximately 100200 ppm in typical raw polyethylene for example. Many products such as frozen foods and drinks bottles are packed in polyethylene. These products are often marked as being vegan. Shopping bags from supermarkets also contain slip agents I believe.
Even if the plastic happens to be vegan, it could be printed on with a non vegan ink. Modern mass-market inks are generally petroleum oil based but sometimes contain animal bone char, glycerin from animal fat, gelatin from hooves, or shellac from beetles. If not printed directly onto the plastic, these animal products in the ink may be on the sticky labels used on many plastic products, this could be on plastics used for food or for any other plastic products. These sticky labels can contain bone parts or gelatine in the glue, or like the jarred product i mentioned earlier casein from milk. I believe it is very very rare for a vegan plastic to be used for a product with only a vegan ink such as petroleum oil based used to label it , but if that does happen, despite being vegan there is still the bad environmental impact to consider from using these materials. Other vegan inks are made such as vegetable or water based ink, though as far as i know these are quite rare at this point in time.

Paper/card. Paper and card as far as I'm aware are generally vegan, though sometimes they may contain animal products. The problem can again be with the printing onto these materials and labelling. Non vegan inks and sticky labels like I described for the plastic products may be used.

Glass, aluminium/tin cans and other materials such as compostable food packaging also suffer from this. Despite all of these materials being vegan, these have the same problem, non vegan inks and sticky labels may be used. Other Aluminium products, such as beer cans, kegs, drums and larger tins e.g for olive oil can be directly printed onto. Methods for this include: continuous inket - the ink may not be vegan. Laser printing - this may use no animal products, i've searched for this but as of right now cannot find a definite answer. On the wiki page for beverage can printing, it says the coatings on metals tend to fall into two categories: thermoplastic or thermoset. Under the types of thermoplastics also listed on wikipedia, there are vegan substances such as acrylic and substances which are generally non vegan such as polyethylene. So I guess thermosplastic coatings could be vegan or non vegan. For thermoset I can't find a definite answer. Both solvent based and UV inks are also available for decorating coated metals. Again I can't find out right now whether these processes use animal products or not. If anyone can help me find out whether laser, thermoset, UV or solvent printing use animal products I would appreciate it. Beer cans also usually come packed in plastic film that has been printed on and are unlikely vegan. If you could find a vegan beer can you would probably have to buy single cans.

I have contacted a well known vegan food company tonight to find out whether their packaging is vegan. They use inks to print on their packaging and plastic, both which may not be vegan. I have suggested to them that they start using vegan friendly packaging if they aren't already. I'm intrigued to hear what they say. I will likely be contacting more vegan food companies.

I have found a few manufacturers of vegan friendly packaging online, but I'm unable to find any food available to buy packaged in their products at the minute. This however shows it is possible. We need to demand the change from vegan food companies to use vegan packaging if these alternatives are available.

I'm even thinking of starting a petition to make it compulsory for vegan products to be packaged in vegan materials - if anyone here has ever started one before and would like to help me with this then let me know. I don't think most vegans are aware of this problem, i think if something says it is vegan on the packet they don't think about it. But as I have mentioned products labelled as vegan may still contain animal products in the packaging. All vegans must strive to eliminate this - how could they not want to?

The only downside I have found detailed on a vegan packaging companies website is that sourcing vegan materials is very labour and energy-intensive. This may result in a larger expenditure of fossil fuel compared to using animal by-products which is readily available.

On the other hand, the reason why animal by-products are readily available is because the demand is high. If companies like you and us start using more vegan products, they could eventually be a readily available material. Also, the huge impact of animal farming/livestock breeding and the resulting by-products cannot be ignored.

Worryingly, the fact that most packaging contains non vegan materials, applies to nearly all products you can buy on Earth, not just vegan foods. Hopefully as more of us become aware of this, the more we can start to ask for it to be changed.

I have been trying to figure out how to reduce the amount of animal based products in the food packaging I buy.
So far the only way we have found this may be possible is if we look for a vegan beer packed in a vegan can! Good luck with that.. I have turned to wholesalers, looking for bulk produce packed in paper/card as this is less likely to contain animal products. These usually have labels on but if they aren't vegan then at least the amount of non vegan packaging is reduced significantly.. Looking for local wholesalers rather than having wholesale produce delivered from far away online, and trying to choose food that is grown as locally as possible reduces the environmental impact too.
It must be remembered that environmental damage causes much harm to animals. This should be a huge incentive (this is as well as being bad for the planet in general)
for all vegans to be as environmentally friendly as possible at all times, although I believe many vegans and non vegans alike are becoming increasingly concerned about the way they effect the environment. Buying in this way from local wholesalers may have positives for these reasons, however what if all vegans did this? If the vegan companies who supply products to shops no longer had anyone buying their products the shops would no longer stock them and they would go bust. This of course would not be what we want, but if we are to continue to support them we must do something as soon as possible to change their packaging to be vegan friendly. In fact you could argue only then could they claim to be vegan companies.

Now that we have established that pretty much all food contains animals products, if not in the food then in what the food comes in, this raises a question - should i aim to buy and eat less food if I am a vegan? You could say all food you buy, or even almost anything you buy contributes to animal suffering. Should you never leave the house? the more you get out and move your body the more calories you will burn and the more food you will require to survive. For example if you are used to going for runs that are several miles long, must you stop doing this now? Should you also become a minimalist who buys as little as possible. If you don't do these things then you are arguably contributing to more animal deaths.

Another problem along with what I have said already, concerns again whether total veganism is even possible.
This is because even in plant food crops animals are killed. However it is still by far the best option as the number killed is generally, far less. This is something that is outlined here: Animal Visuals: Number of Animals Killed By Slaughter and Harvest in Eight Food Categories This link also contains an interesting study.
This study shows that animal lives could actually be saved by plant crops! Its not definitive but this is what it says. In the study, 33 field mice were fitted with radio collars and tracked before and after harvest. The researchers found that only 3 percent of them were actually killed by the combine harvester (amounting to one mouse). An additional 52 percent of them (17 mice) were killed following harvest by predators such as owls and weasels, possibly due to their loss of the crop cover. It is unknown how many of these mice would have been eaten by owls or weasels anyway.

Another potential problem I have encountered is with water supply. My local water supply adds chlorine to the water. As far as I know this is common practice worldwide. The water supply is an essential part of life from whether you choose to drink it, for bathing, household cleaning, for growing crops etc. Is this chlorine tested on animals? I have emailed my local water supplier about this some time ago but I am yet to receive a reply. Can anyone confirm this? Animal testing is something else that needs to be ended as soon as possible, I will look for any petitions about this soon and post them back here once I find them. Something needs to be done. If I can't find any I will start one. On the subject of animal testing I have found some household cleaning products in some supermarkets that are vegan and aren't tested on animals, however the packaging again as far as i know probably isn't vegan. I guess we should buy and support these products, whilst encouraging them to change the packaging, like with the food. I'll link these products here later on request.

Something else we can do to reduce animal deaths would be to recycle as much as possible. As well as reducing environmental impact this can save animal lives if you recycle a products packaging that may contain animal products such as a polyethylene drinks bottle or plastic bag. Whilst I hope we can do something to stop these materials being used if you have any of these items then recycle them - it should reduce the need to make new ones, which would be at the cost of animal lives.
Recycling any material is something positive people seem to be doing, and seems to be increasing. I hope this continues.


There are some more positives I've seen people doing recently.
Tesco for example in the UK are planning to eliminate plastic packaging and I hope stickers too on fruit and veg I believe. This even includes the plastic packaging the fruit and veg is transported in I think. I saw in a different supermarket recently loose veg was still picked out of a relatively small plastic bag that it must have been transported to the store in. This plastic is likely bad for the environment and as its a bag it also likely contains animal products. We need to encourage more shops to stop using them as well as stickers on fruit and veg. This would be a step in the right direction in my opinion. I have already seen many people want to use less plastic.
Switching to green energy is another positive along with green alternatives like electric cars. More people are interested in becoming zero waste, which is another thing that is positive, however at the minute it is hard to achieve fully. For example the shops they buy from are likely just buying bulk bags and decanting them into plastic dispensers. The dispensers could be seen as bad as they are usually plastic, and the bulk bags they've emptied out and any labels on them may not be recyclable which does create waste, this packaging again may not be vegan. Some zero waste shops require you to print labels for anything you buy, potentially creating waste. If you are buying from an online zero waste shop you have to take into account the effect on the environment of all the deliveries if they are coming from a long distance away too. If you are making trips to a zero waste shop often in a vehicle this could still be considered a problem somewhat which could be reduced by going to a wholesaler and buying similar items in bulk, this could save money as well, however if a large variety of products was wanted this may not be considered an option. Recycling as I mentioned is a positive people are doing, a form of this that many trying to live zero waste are doing is composting. I have found conflicting views on whether this is considered vegan or not when using worms however i think there are forms of composting that don't even require them. Can anyone confirm? I need to look into this. Another positive is the number of vegans is increasing all the time. Of course with this the demand for vegan products increases and more vegan products are made. The fact there are more vegans than ever now means that more can be done to create change. If even 1% of vegans took action on important issues then that would be quite a lot of people and because of this significant changes could be possible. I will look for petitions on animal testing. I will start one to make vegan packaging compulsory on vegan food. Vegans are being mislead about this, once they realise the packaging on the food they buy isn't vegan they must want to do something about it surely?
I hope we can do something about this.

Another thing I have seen that I hope increases is BioCyclic farming. Biocyclic vegan agriculture means purely plant-based organic farming. This form of cultivation excludes all commercial livestock farming and slaughtering of animals and does not use any inputs of animal origin. I really hope this becomes the future of farming.
Most of the Biocyclic farms are in Europe outside the UK, so in the UK it is hard to find any that you can support. However if you are reading this and you are located
in the same country as a Biocyclic farm and are able to support it, please do. We must help them grow as much a possible. The number has increased slightly over the last few years and I hope more and more are made. I really hope they are the future of farming.

Its good to see these positive changes. However there are a few more things I have found that could cause concern for people trying to be vegan.

Construction materials can be problematic, as can electronics. As for building materials, I have found this information:
such as phones and laptops.
LCD screens contain animal cholesterol. Timber, and wood, especially if it is reclaimed. These sorts
Batteries contain gelatine. of woods are often treated with by products from the animal industry, so it isn’t necessarily going to be Vegan.
Ox blood and glues containing animal fats are often found in older pieces of timber.
Cutting down trees for new wood can also be bad, in doing
so you’re removing the natural habitat of birds, insects and other woodland creatures. Though avoiding this is hard.
The humble brick - used for a good deal of new household construction often contains animal blood or fat in its mixture to help preserve it and to give it a longer life span.
Finally, there’s steel. Steel has longevity, as well as being recyclable, but its look may not be to everyone's taste.
Animal fats such as gelatine are used in it’s production, so therefore, it also is not suitable for anyone who is a vegan.

Steel is used in many everyday products not just building materials.
As I have stated earlier almost anything you can buy on Earth currently likely contains something not vegan in either the materials or the packaging.

Clothing is another example. Vegan clothes brands are still in the minority unfortunately but the number of vegan clothes brands is increasing.
Primark is a store in the UK that since 2020 has been certified as vegan since 2020.
although I need to find out if they have the same problem as vegan food - packaging.
I've noticed their paper bags have coloured ink printed on them which may not be vegan.
This could be the case with their price tags and clothing labels as well, I will try and find out.
But as far as I'm aware they are the only store in the UK certified as vegan, at least for a
retail chain store. More stores should follow this example.

Sorry for such a lengthy post. I hope all the positives people are doing keep increasing, I believe they will.
All the problems I have mentioned are a shame, but I believe they can all be changed if we take action. I am trying to find somewhere where I can find people who want to change such things. That's how I got here. I believe the world can be changed into a much better place, but we all need to play our part. The increase in number of vegans
for example gives me hope for the future, we must spread the word about the things we need to change and keep encouraging all of the positive things people are doing.

Great changes are always possible, this has been seen throughout history.

I have left out the sources for some of the information I have included in this post. If you want me to look any of these up, then let me know. I will try my best to find them for you. If you took the time to read this whole post,
Thank you.
Well the air is full of vapours from kitchen that cook non vegan food so it is good to be vegan while as an intention and a believe only vegetables and fruits are eaten to respect then the carnivorous and the non vegan products around to be good with all