More: http://observer.com/2016/02/the-totalitarian-doctrine-of-social-justice-warriors/ (2. February 2016)
What do you think - is the new social justice movement still a positive development?
Social justice warriors
- Thread starter Second Summer
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What do you think - is the new social justice movement still a positive development?
The first time I heard this term was a week or two ago, on this board.
I'm not sure why there's a special term for this, or why it's treated as some kind of new phenomenon. I suspect the underlying reason may have to do with axes and grinding.
Frankly, I get tired of this sort of thing, just as I get tired of people acting as though the younger generation are all self centered, shallow idiots, or all vegans are holier than thou pricks, or ....
There's hardly ever anything new under the sun, and certainly not when it comes to human behavior.
I'm not sure why there's a special term for this, or why it's treated as some kind of new phenomenon. I suspect the underlying reason may have to do with axes and grinding.
Frankly, I get tired of this sort of thing, just as I get tired of people acting as though the younger generation are all self centered, shallow idiots, or all vegans are holier than thou pricks, or ....
There's hardly ever anything new under the sun, and certainly not when it comes to human behavior.
OP
OP
It's treated as a new phenomenon because it appears sufficiently different from similar phenomena in the past.
If you don't feel you have anything to contribute to a thread, then your options are a) to ignore it and move along, and / or b) to spend your energy in another thread, either an existing one or even start a new one. I've seen the "SJW" term thrown around a lot other places on the Web, so I started this thread because I'm genuinely interested in the topic, and was hoping other members would be able to enhance my understanding.
OP
OP
Yes, it's a pejorative term, according to Wikipedia. Is there a better, more neutral term to describe this group? I think "contemporary social justice activists" might work ...
OP
OP
beancounter
The Fire That Burns Within
Wolf in sheep's clothing
Two-faced fascists
Self righteous censors
TRIGGER WARNING -
How Social Justice Warriors Are Creating An Entire Generation Of Fascists
"With that said, never have I encountered anyone who was so giddy about their hatred than the people who make up the SJW community. These are people who, on a regular basis, call for violence and genocide against “oppressors”, whether it’s white people, heterosexual people, thin people, or just anyone who even slightly disagrees with them."
beancounter
The Fire That Burns Within
Spang
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There isn't one. "Social Justice Warrior" is the term, and it's used to dismiss anyone who brings up social justice, as the General Discussion moderator is exhibiting.
Freesia
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I think it can be hard to be PC all the time and use language that doesnt offend anybody.
But on the other hand I can understand where "SJ" people are coming from. Like if your life is full of harassment and prejudice, it is hard not to get pretty annoyed with it all and want to spend time with people who understand what you are going through. Society can be not very nice to people who have some kind of difference, like being gay or trans... or poor... or being a woman, particularly a woman who is a single mother or considered otherwise low status... people who are disabled and/or mentally ill basically have reduced human rights... then there is being non-white which also comes with problems with the way society treats those who dont fit the "white thin" mold... and I could go on...
Also the problem with all this is that often you have to have had this kind of nasty **** happen to you to understand what SJs are going on about.
Like I could talk about my personal experiences... but I wont.
But I was watching a TV show today and had a man who was a Little Person- he has dwarfism achondryplasia- anyway he always looked so together to me .. but on TV he was talking about his youth- bullied all the way through school, and all the way through university because of this difference/condition he had...
Like it or not, there is "status" "levels" "classes" in society and if you find yourself on the bottom of all this, you will know all about it... but it isnt like you can talk about it to other people, because chances are you probably wont be believed, especially if it is people who have never been in the same situation...
But on the other hand I can understand where "SJ" people are coming from. Like if your life is full of harassment and prejudice, it is hard not to get pretty annoyed with it all and want to spend time with people who understand what you are going through. Society can be not very nice to people who have some kind of difference, like being gay or trans... or poor... or being a woman, particularly a woman who is a single mother or considered otherwise low status... people who are disabled and/or mentally ill basically have reduced human rights... then there is being non-white which also comes with problems with the way society treats those who dont fit the "white thin" mold... and I could go on...
Also the problem with all this is that often you have to have had this kind of nasty **** happen to you to understand what SJs are going on about.
Like I could talk about my personal experiences... but I wont.
But I was watching a TV show today and had a man who was a Little Person- he has dwarfism achondryplasia- anyway he always looked so together to me .. but on TV he was talking about his youth- bullied all the way through school, and all the way through university because of this difference/condition he had...
Like it or not, there is "status" "levels" "classes" in society and if you find yourself on the bottom of all this, you will know all about it... but it isnt like you can talk about it to other people, because chances are you probably wont be believed, especially if it is people who have never been in the same situation...
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That reminds me a lot of the German term "Gutmensch" (translated: "Goodhuman") which was actually coined by the National Socialists to deride everybody who did not share their opinions and protested their bad behaviour.
You speak out for refugees -> "Gutmensch!"
You promote gender equality -> "Gutmensch!"
You suggest to reduce the consumption of animal products -> "Gutmensch"
And so on.
Yes, it is very well possible that some people overdo their activism, but the word is easily and readily used to deride everybody (e.g. BLM) who has a very legitimate protest.
And no, imo racism and fascism do not increase because "normal people" are offended by over-the-top BLM propaganda, but rather because people like Mr. Trump make hate speech seem normal by using it in their propaganda.
You speak out for refugees -> "Gutmensch!"
You promote gender equality -> "Gutmensch!"
You suggest to reduce the consumption of animal products -> "Gutmensch"
And so on.
Yes, it is very well possible that some people overdo their activism, but the word is easily and readily used to deride everybody (e.g. BLM) who has a very legitimate protest.
And no, imo racism and fascism do not increase because "normal people" are offended by over-the-top BLM propaganda, but rather because people like Mr. Trump make hate speech seem normal by using it in their propaganda.
OP
OP
To clarify, I'm not looking for a term to dismiss anyone. I'm looking for a neutral term for what appears to be a new kind of social justice activist.
I could be wrong, but I don't think BC is opposed to social justice, or discussing it, he's just concerned about the way social justice is advocated by some.
Spang
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A neutral term does not exist. There are different movements, each one focusing on a particular injustice. Some may focus on more than one, but they're all, more or less, in solidarity with one another.
beancounter
The Fire That Burns Within
That's correct. But I expected some people here to miss that point, entirely and jump straight to the assumption that I'm against social justice.
These knee jerk reactions to my posts are predictable. It's as if people need to find an enemy as a means to validate their beliefs.
To be clear , I am not opposed to discussion. I am opposed to the methods and tactics some people use in an attempt to impose their views on others.
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Spang
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Perhaps you should consider adding some of your own commentary to your posts so that we may better understand what your point even is.
You posted a YouTube video of one of the few women in the so-called men's rights movement. No commentary. An unnecessary, seemingly derisive, trigger warning, but no real commentary.
OP
OP
Yes, I think it's quite clear that more social justice is needed in many areas of society, so social justice advocates definitely have a job to do. I don't have a problem seeing that even though I'm not in a particularly disadvantaged group myself.
beancounter
The Fire That Burns Within
Honestly, I'm getting tired of it. No matter how much I try to explain my position, people take the most extreme interpretation. I'm not a big writer, so I find it easier to post articles that contain my point I want to express. Constantly having to qualify my point is a PITA. I did in fact quote part of the article that I found relevant. But I thought it was clear that I'm criticizing SJW's methods, not the content of their beliefs.
I am concerned about the all or nothing, black or white, you're either 100% with us, or your against us, no room for nuance or shades of gray mentality. Heck, even potential allies are shut out because they are only 99.9% within the party line parameters. Kind of reminds me of the NRA and their all or nothing opposition to gun laws. (Obviously the subject matter and content are different, but the overall mentality and methods are similar)
Heck it was just about a week or so, that I posted something negative about Hilary, and the automatic, knee jerk reaction was that I must be a Trump supporter..all or nothing, black or white....
Such a mindset is dangerous to a democracy. It doesn't matter if it's coming from the right or the left. An extremist is an extremist is an extremist.
What you posted "negative about Hilary" was a right wing video repeating some of the most extreme conspiracy theories about the Clintons that the right has come up with.
You're doing something similar in this thread, with the videos and links that you are posting in "support" of your position.
It's like when someone posts a video of one of those whacked out veg*n extremists who advocate killing humans to "save" nonhumans, to "support" their argument that vegans are a whacked out, violent bunch.
I don't think you're unintelligent, so therefore I assume you realize exactly what you are doing. The only question is "why?"