So ...s? diet

Nekodaiden

Active Member
Joined
Dec 2, 2017
Messages
978
Reaction score
431
Age
45
Lifestyle
Vegan
I've seen this mentioned a few times for better health/weight loss: The SOS free diet -or no Sugar, Oil, Salt.

Ok, I understand about the refined sugar: 4 calories per gram, no vitamins and minerals, no help to you feeling full and feeding the good bacteria in the gut the fiber they need.

And about the oil - same reasons, except it's worse at 9 calories per gram for a substance that provides no B vitamins or any minerals needed to turn it into fuel.

And of course I understand about alcohol, it is sugar converted to poison and runs at 7 calories per gram with no B vitamins or minerals. Some forms have a few, like naturally brewed beer which still contains the yeast, but the alcohol still is not compensated so it's a nutrient thief and vessel for fat gain and excessive hunger later on (as in, the next day usually).

But salt? I know it can cause some water retention and cause some serious problems if lots of it is used over a longer period...but does it really deserve to be in the list for losing weight? To my knowledge it's not a nutrient thief that will use up B vitamins and minerals leaving a person more hungry. It doesn't provide empty calories like the others do. Aside from a little water retention, how does it promote fat gain and if it does, can it honestly be said to be in the same category as things like oil and alcohol and excessive refined sugar?
 
Last edited:

Veganite

Super Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Jul 30, 2017
Messages
1,297
Reaction score
768
Location
Vancouver, BC
Lifestyle
Vegan
Doctor's Lisle and Goldhamer explain it fairly well. For me it is all about heart-health and blood pressure, but there's also addictive properties to salt that Dr. Goldhamer explains in his video "The Pleasure Trap". Also doctor Greger has a heap of researched backed info on his channel about sodium/salt and its effects on your health.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL5TLzNi5fYd9ad1RO28vUDATty9WiFb9n



 

Lou

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 8, 2018
Messages
1,797
Reaction score
1,558
Age
63
Location
San Mateo, Ca
Lifestyle
Vegan
Doctor's Lisle and Goldhamer explain it fairly well. For me it is all about heart-health and blood pressure, but there's also addictive properties to salt that Dr. Goldhamer explains in his video "The Pleasure Trap". Also doctor Greger has a heap of researched backed info on his channel about sodium/salt and its effects on your health.
First. Let's all wish Veganite a Happy Birthday!
Second. She may be a Super Moderator but she is Super Duper Contributor. Always providing really good answers.

The salt stuff is a little controversial. some "experts" have done a pretty good job of muddying the waters. Veganite quickly clears things up and get to the bottom of things.
 

Veganite

Super Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Jul 30, 2017
Messages
1,297
Reaction score
768
Location
Vancouver, BC
Lifestyle
Vegan
She? Whatever gave you that idea? *snickers* I might have a feminine side, but it usually only surfaces on Internet forums ;)

It's funny, I made the same mistake with the OP of this thread, Nekodaiden. I have no idea why I assumed that, but I did. I guess the name sort of swayed me in that direction, come to think of it. The word 'neko' which I first singled out of the name means cat in Japanese. I guess I just assumed the feline name paired well with a female person. Also, Neko Case, a fairly well known female singer gave me a sort of female name association as well.

Thank you for the early birthday wishes, Lou, and the kind words.

I hope the information I supplied is helpful. For me salt is important because of the history in my family of high blood pressure and CAD. Ultimately, everyone is entitled to make their own educated decisions.

What I get from all this though is, even if we didn't add a speck of salt to our food, we'd still easily get our required sodium from plant-based foods, naturally. So it certainly isn't necessary. Does it taste good? hell ya! It's also known to be additive, triggering the same receptors in our brain as drugs.

It really comes down to one's ability to moderate. Having an addictive nature could have an impact on your ability to moderate. Also, your own susceptibility could also play a role. Some people naturally have an addictive nature or vulnerability.

I based my decision to drastically limit salt intake because of my family's history, and my own history of high blood pressure. I have every reason to limit my sodium intake. It is easier said than done though. However, since I don't eat processed foods very often, and I don't add salt directly to food, I am likely well within my goal. I just like seasoning foods I cook, soups, seitan, etc. It would be very hard for me to give it up altogether, as some doctors suggest doing. I'd call that addictive.


*
 

Nekodaiden

Active Member
Joined
Dec 2, 2017
Messages
978
Reaction score
431
Age
45
Lifestyle
Vegan
Hold on...

I didn't ask if salt was healthy in large doses. I asked how it contributes to weight gain beyond a little water retention. Thank you @Veganite for the videos. I have watched Mic The Vegan's video previously and found it informative. However, I do not recall in that video how it is related to weight gain or part of a recipe for losing unneeded weight.

This is my primary question, not the health effects of salt in other areas when used to excess.
 

Veganite

Super Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Jul 30, 2017
Messages
1,297
Reaction score
768
Location
Vancouver, BC
Lifestyle
Vegan
I see...well, my apologies for misunderstanding the question. Nonetheless, I still don't wish to retain water, unnecessarily either. Overall, added salt really isn't natural to our diets.

Salt and obesity seem to go hand in hand, from what I've read. Don't salty foods tend to increase thirst? And...don't many people quench that thirst with various sport and soft drinks loaded with sugar and empty calories? That's just one theory.

Secondly, salt enhances the taste of foods, which obviously can encourage overeating for people with food addictions. That's another theory.

I don't think it's critical to weight loss to eliminate salt, as long as you can do that. Personally, I've done it with loads of salt in my diet, and still met my weight requirements with just hard training and a low fat, calorie restricted diet. Having said that, your weight will fluctuate a lot more, due to water retention. I've seen my own weight fluctuate 2-3 KG within a 24 hour period. Most likely because of the salt in my diet.

Excessive sodium has also been proven to be disruptive to your sleep, due to unnecessary water retention.

Fluid is attracted to sodium like a magnet, so when you take in too much, you retain more water. Short-term, this means bloating and puffiness and long-term, extra fluid creates stress on the heart.


*
 

Lou

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 8, 2018
Messages
1,797
Reaction score
1,558
Age
63
Location
San Mateo, Ca
Lifestyle
Vegan
Veganite, First I guess i need to apologize for assuming you were female. Although in my defense I think it was because you appear to be so smart. And as everyone knows women are smarter than men. Like the song says:
"I say, it's the women today, smarter than the men in every way,
That's right the women are smarter, the women are smarter that's right."

I really don't know why I assumed so. Your avatar is even wearing a tie. So obviously you must be a boy.

But to get back to Nekolodian's question. Part of the issue with Salt is that it is addictive. and it is also associated with oily foods. French fries, potato chips, etc.

I haven't read the book, but I have heard the author of Salt, Fat, Sugar in a number of interviews. In a nutshell, the author states that not only are those foods addictive, but the food industry manipulates the amounts of those substances to get us to buy and eat their products.

Some new research seems to be showing that fat, sugar and caffeine are even more addictive when combined in a certain way. Some guys got a hold of an MRI or an ECG and Starbucks Lattes have the same effect on our brains as cocaine. Which sort of explains why when I pass by Starbucks there is a line out the door and everyone is waiting patiently for their $5 dollar sugar fat caffeine fixes.

Hmm. I wonder if the salted caramel is even more addictive.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Veganite

Nekodaiden

Active Member
Joined
Dec 2, 2017
Messages
978
Reaction score
431
Age
45
Lifestyle
Vegan
I see...well, my apologies for misunderstanding the question. Nonetheless, I still don't wish to retain water, unnecessarily either. Overall, added salt really isn't natural to our diets.

Salt and obesity seem to go hand in hand, from what I've read. Don't salty foods tend to increase thirst? And...don't many people quench that thirst with various sport and soft drinks loaded with sugar and empty calories? That's just one theory.

Secondly, salt enhances the taste of foods, which obviously can encourage overeating for people with food addictions. That's another theory.

I don't think it's critical to weight loss to eliminate salt, as long as you can do that. Personally, I've done it with loads of salt in my diet, and still met my weight requirements with just hard training and a low fat, calorie restricted diet. Having said that, your weight will fluctuate a lot more, due to water retention. I've seen my own weight fluctuate 2-3 KG within a 24 hour period. Most likely because of the salt in my diet.

Excessive sodium has also been proven to be disruptive to your sleep, due to unnecessary water retention.

Fluid is attracted to sodium like a magnet, so when you take in too much, you retain more water. Short-term, this means bloating and puffiness and long-term, extra fluid creates stress on the heart.


*
Hmm. Thanks for your input. I was digging around today and it seems there is a study (the quality of which and how bona-fide it is I don't know) that suggests that regular excess sodium actually increases appetite, not thirst, as the body will have to work to retain more water if it's not increased with the salt intake. The process actually involves breaking down muscle tissue and some overtime for the kidneys to keep the balance, which overall increases energy expenditure (leading to greater appetite). It was interesting. I already know I consume too much salt. Reducing it some seems like it might be wise.
 

Nekodaiden

Active Member
Joined
Dec 2, 2017
Messages
978
Reaction score
431
Age
45
Lifestyle
Vegan
She? Whatever gave you that idea? *snickers* I might have a feminine side, but it usually only surfaces on Internet forums ;)

It's funny, I made the same mistake with the OP of this thread, Nekodaiden. I have no idea why I assumed that, but I did. I guess the name sort of swayed me in that direction, come to think of it. The word 'neko' which I first singled out of the name means cat in Japanese. I guess I just assumed the feline name paired well with a female person. Also, Neko Case, a fairly well known female singer gave me a sort of female name association as well.
My name has a secret meaning that might be recognized by an astute student of etymology and knowledge of my past adventures on the internet, along with a detailed profile of my particular quirks and personality. Of course such a person might be a stalker or just a former admin on a different (and different type) of website I had issues with.

But you got it all wrong, mate. Gender and etymology. Sorry. lol. :p
 
  • Haha
Reactions: Veganite

Jekyll40

Member
Joined
Jun 21, 2018
Messages
19
Reaction score
12
Age
79
Lifestyle
Vegan Newbie
Hi folks. I have low blood pressure, and it has been suggested to me that a small (repeat, small) addition of salt to my diet will be benificial. Any thoughts?
 

Veganite

Super Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Jul 30, 2017
Messages
1,297
Reaction score
768
Location
Vancouver, BC
Lifestyle
Vegan
@Jekyll40

I'm not doctor, and hardly qualified to give this sort of advice, especially considering the impact it can have on your health. However, I do think in your situation a bit more salt might prove beneficial. You also want to make sure you're consuming enough fluids, and that does not include alcohol, especially during the warmer weather, if you're having summer where you live. Eating smaller meals more frequently is also supposed to help, but drinking lots of water is definitely critical.

Seeing as you're a new vegan, it is unlikely B12 is causing your low blood pressure. This is usually due to anemia, with long term B12 and/or iron depletion. Nonetheless, worth mentioning.

Low blood pressure can sometimes be a precursor to something more serious. It is always recommended to see a doctor and discuss things like this, rather than seek help on some Internet forum.


*
 

Jekyll40

Member
Joined
Jun 21, 2018
Messages
19
Reaction score
12
Age
79
Lifestyle
Vegan Newbie
Thanks Veganite. I've had low bp for as long as I can remember (I'm 78), so it's certainly not vegan related. I'm making sure I get B12.

I'll try the water. I last had alcohol (a single malt whisky) last September. I may go mad and have one to celebrate Hogmanay.

It got so warm here (Scottish Highlands) the other day, I had to take one of my sweaters off.

Last time I saw my doctor, he was so overweight I felt like giving him some diet advice.
 

Veganite

Super Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Jul 30, 2017
Messages
1,297
Reaction score
768
Location
Vancouver, BC
Lifestyle
Vegan
Last time I saw my doctor, he was so overweight I felt like giving him some diet advice.
That is hilarious, in a sad sort of way.

Well, if you're 78 and you've had hypotension a long time, I'm sure you know what you're up against. Having said that, it still doesn't replace the advice or opinions of doctors and healthcare professionals.

I used to struggle with the opposite problem. If it were me, I'd be keeping an eye on it, which I still do for myself. Blood pressure monitors are not that expensive, and if you have a history, whether high or low, it is probably a good idea to keep track of it. I just mean if you see a noticeable change, you know it's time to see the doctor. If this is just normal fluctuation for you, then still, keep track of the changes, and do everything you can, naturally, to keep it in check.

Personally, I'd hate to be back on medication for blood pressure, but that is an option, especially if you're having a lot of dizzy spells, where it can put you at risk of falling and injuring yourself. Again, despite your doctor's physique, you might just want to get checked out for your own piece of mind.


*
 

Jekyll40

Member
Joined
Jun 21, 2018
Messages
19
Reaction score
12
Age
79
Lifestyle
Vegan Newbie
Luckily my local pharmacist - a very personable young lady - is able to check bp. I shall consult her frequently!
 

Vesta

Member
Joined
Jul 21, 2018
Messages
12
Reaction score
5
Age
27
Lifestyle
Vegan
I've seen this mentioned a few times for better health/weight loss: The SOS free diet -or no Sugar, Oil, Salt.

Ok, I understand about the refined sugar: 4 calories per gram, no vitamins and minerals, no help to you feeling full and feeding the good bacteria in the gut the fiber they need.

And about the oil - same reasons, except it's worse at 9 calories per gram for a substance that provides no B vitamins or any minerals needed to turn it into fuel.

And of course I understand about alcohol, it is sugar converted to poison and runs at 7 calories per gram with no B vitamins or minerals. Some forms have a few, like naturally brewed beer which still contains the yeast, but the alcohol still is not compensated so it's a nutrient thief and vessel for fat gain and excessive hunger later on (as in, the next day usually).

But salt? I know it can cause some water retention and cause some serious problems if lots of it is used over a longer period...but does it really deserve to be in the list for losing weight? To my knowledge it's not a nutrient thief that will use up B vitamins and minerals leaving a person more hungry. It doesn't provide empty calories like the others do. Aside from a little water retention, how does it promote fat gain and if it does, can it honestly be said to be in the same category as things like oil and alcohol and excessive refined sugar?

Salt is just salt. Chemically speaking it's made of sodium and chloride if we are talking about table salt. Other salts available have different combinations, such as Epsom salt which is known to have magnesium and hence used by people who exercise heavily to restore the balance in the body.

If you're a purist vegan and avoid processed foods then having some salt in your diet may be beneficial. Or if you BP is tend to be low having salt in your food is okay.

Also watched a video talking about microplastics in the sea salt, which supposedly is a good source of iodine too. That kinda made me think.

The triad of Sugar-Oil-Salt is why the processed foods being palatable. But then we know that processed foods should be avoided anyway.
 

RChrisM437

Member
Joined
Oct 20, 2018
Messages
5
Reaction score
4
Age
48
Location
SE Connecticut
Lifestyle
Vegan
Last time I saw my doctor, he was so overweight I felt like giving him some diet advice.
That's funny. Last time I went to the doctor I spent much more time answering his questions, than he did mine.
I felt like I should have charged him !
 
  • Like
Reactions: Emma JC

Llama

Member
Joined
Jan 24, 2018
Messages
23
Reaction score
5
Age
18
Location
United Kingdom
Lifestyle
Vegan
I eat sugar, oil, and salt and I'm still standing! Mainly because I'm forced to because I'm a weight restored anorexic and I dont have much choice. But I've learnt that you don't have to restrict or eliminate anything! I eat whatever and I am eliiiyyve!

As for the salt and water retention, I used to DELIBERATELY eat a load of salt to give me water retention so it looked like I weighed more... So I'm not scared of salt.

Don't worry about weight unless you're unhealthily heavy! Everyone's probably going to shout at me now but I've made my point and I only have good intentions .
 
  • Like
Reactions: Forest Nymph

Similar threads