Should Shelter Dogs Be Vegan?
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Mark Mywordz
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Apparently they think that it is not a good idea to give shelter dogs a vegan diet. Perhaps they could feed the dogs to the other animals. I love my dogs but it seems no different to feed cow meat (beef) to dogs or feed dog meat to cows. Both are equally barbaric. One reason given was "Moving to a vegan diet with higher fiber is likely to mean frequent doggy diarrhea".
There is no reason in the world why most dogs can't be vegan (same a people). My older two have been for many years (8?) - with the full support of their vegan vet! (Reuben isn't any longer because he has to have microscopic kibble since he broke his jaw.) And we have no issues with loose stools - they are perfect. 
Now that being said, of course they are vegan because of my preferences and not because of their own choices. They would never refuse any of my mother's "doggie bag" steak bites. But I can say in all seriousness, they scarf down my seitan barbecue with exactly the same vigor that they would scarf down animal based barbecue.
Now that being said, of course they are vegan because of my preferences and not because of their own choices. They would never refuse any of my mother's "doggie bag" steak bites. But I can say in all seriousness, they scarf down my seitan barbecue with exactly the same vigor that they would scarf down animal based barbecue.
Well, there is actually a decided difference. Cows are herbivores; dogs are carnivores.
While some dogs can probably live healthy lives on a vegan diet, many can't.
Dogs are carnivores, although they are not obligate carnivores. As such, their need for protein is a lot higher than that of omnivores such as humans. Most commercial dog food actually doesn't deliver sufficient protein.
That lack of sufficient protein may be a/the reason why dogs (and cats, but that's another story) develop pancreatitis. Once a dog (or cat) develops a problem with his pancreas, the only way to manage the situation is to feed basically a 100% lean meat diet - no fats, nothing that contains sugars (for example, the only safe vegetable is green beans).
Many dogs also have intolerances for grains. My Toby got an ear infection if he ate even a small amount of grain. Jack was allergic to quite a few non-meat foods, and would scratch himself raw.
Diarrhea should also not be so readily dismissed. It's uncomfortable, can be downright painful, and will lead to other health problems if it continues for a length of time. My dogs have always been pretty flexible about their diets - I've always tried to feed a pretty varied diet, so they wouldn't get digestive upsets easily. But there are always exceptions: Tascha, one of my current dogs, will get terrible diarrhea if there is any variation in her diet.
It's one thing to try to switch your personal dogs to a vegan diet if you and your vet are committed to monitoring the dog's health situation carefully, but it's another to matter entirely to try to do it on a mass scale within a system that's already stretched to provide basic care.
Dogs are carnivores, although they are not obligate carnivores. As such, their need for protein is a lot higher than that of omnivores such as humans. Most commercial dog food actually doesn't deliver sufficient protein.
That lack of sufficient protein may be a/the reason why dogs (and cats, but that's another story) develop pancreatitis. Once a dog (or cat) develops a problem with his pancreas, the only way to manage the situation is to feed basically a 100% lean meat diet - no fats, nothing that contains sugars (for example, the only safe vegetable is green beans).
Many dogs also have intolerances for grains. My Toby got an ear infection if he ate even a small amount of grain. Jack was allergic to quite a few non-meat foods, and would scratch himself raw.
Diarrhea should also not be so readily dismissed. It's uncomfortable, can be downright painful, and will lead to other health problems if it continues for a length of time. My dogs have always been pretty flexible about their diets - I've always tried to feed a pretty varied diet, so they wouldn't get digestive upsets easily. But there are always exceptions: Tascha, one of my current dogs, will get terrible diarrhea if there is any variation in her diet.
It's one thing to try to switch your personal dogs to a vegan diet if you and your vet are committed to monitoring the dog's health situation carefully, but it's another to matter entirely to try to do it on a mass scale within a system that's already stretched to provide basic care.
Mark Mywordz
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You are right but that did not stop European farmers feeding cows a diet of meat pellets. I think that has been outlawed now.
Dogs are not carnivores. Cats are carnivores. Dogs are omnivores, just like humans and the vast majority of them can do very well on a vegan diet. When you feed them a high quality vegan diet - especially instead of a gmo corn and chicken waste by-product diet that most dogs in the US get, they can do very well.
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Cats are obligate carnivores, which means that a diet that isn't exclusively animal based can have a deleterious effect on them. Dogs, like wolves, are carnivores, but not obligate carnivores - they can properly metabolize a wider variety of food stuffs. Dogs, like wolves, thrive on an all meat diet, while humans don't.
It's a continuum, with some animals needing exclusively meat, others needing exclusively vegetable matter (in some cases just one type of vegetable matter (think koalas and those bird species that eat exclusively nectar for examples).
Humans fall squarely in the omnivore range, as do pandas and quite a few other animals who naturally forage for both plant and animal foods. Wolves and dogs, when left to their own devices (I.e., when they are not dependent on humans for their food) seek out meat.
Most recent research concludes that dogs are indeed omnivores, not carnivores. Wolves are carnivores (or obligate carnivores), but dogs are not wolves. Dogs, because of domestication, have evolved to eat a far more varied diet than their wolf relatives, and research clearly says an all meat diet for dogs is not healthy. Dogs can indeed be vegan and live long and healthy lives as vegans. My three have no digestive issues, have silky coats, age appropriate energy, perfect blood work and have no joint or kidney issues (which are often caused by excess protein).
Truth be told, I love my dogs more than my principles. If they were to become ill or somehow thought to be deficient because of their vegan diet, I'd definitely change. But they are all seniors now, and more healthy than any other dogs I know. They are all aging beautifully - kind of like me.
Truth be told, I love my dogs more than my principles. If they were to become ill or somehow thought to be deficient because of their vegan diet, I'd definitely change. But they are all seniors now, and more healthy than any other dogs I know. They are all aging beautifully - kind of like me.
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Wolfie
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I have no doubt some dogs do well on a vegan diet. But some of them definitely cannot. Besides, humans cause far more harm to animals with their diets than dogs do. Most shelters feed grocery store dog food that's made mostly from scraps from the human food supply. Cows and chickens aren't being killed to feed shelter dogs.
Most shelters and municipal facilities have contracts with major pet food suppliers for food. I doubt many (any?) of those suppliers offer vegan dog food in bulk. But if they did, it would certainly be easy enough to order. In our case (Richmond Animal League) we order from Science Diet - puppy, kitten, adult, overweight, etc . And also order specialty/perscription food for various health concerns - renal, skin, underweight, etc. Keeping the same brand though out the shelter simplifies feeding by allowing management to indicate the amount each animal should get on the kennel card.
But we have absolutely no idea what the dogs are used to eating when we get them in - and many are obviously unhealthy. So we feed them the appropriate Science Diet until a side effect or issue comes up, at which point we get a vet recommendation to change. It would be very easy for the shelter to introduce vegan dog food, transition over, and try it out. (But it won't happen - no one listens to me!
) The thing is, we keep dogs in the shelter for an average of about a week before they are adopted (of course it varies from dog to dog). So think of the number of animals we could spare by not feeding 1500 dogs a year meat-based dog food for even just one week.Smaller, less well-funded rural shelters rely more on donations/discounted/out of date food and often end up unable to feed their residents a consistent diet, no matter what it is.
@Wolfie Are you sure chickens and cows (and ducks, lambs, salmon, venison, fish etc.) are not being killed to feed pets? I find that very hard to believe. I do understand that a lot of waste from human consumption ends up in dog food, but I cannot imagine the manufacture of pet food, especially given the number of pets we have, doesn't involve it's own degree of animal slaughter. I'd love to see a source for that.
eta #1 - I know slaughtered horses and injured animals are canned for pet food.
eta #2 - you really can't read about what goes into pet food without reading about rendering plants and all they terrible things they end up with. Horrible. The quantity of antibiotics and steriods that end up in the final food products is cause for alarm, imho.
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Mark Mywordz
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That's very interesting, Poppy. I am very suspicious of dry dog food. It doesn't look like real food and the list of ingredients on the packets does not impress me. We make up our own dog food and it is all stuff that we ourselves would eat. Obviously we miss out the things which are not good for dogs and we try to ensure that they get sufficient protein, carbs and fats as well vitamins and minerals. Am I right to be suspicious of dry dog foods? Our vet is very good but she always tries to persuade me that the dry foods (Royal Canin) are best. It is a waste of time to talk to the majority of Spanish people about vegan or vegetarian foods. They don't get it. And animal cruelty is something which they accept as natural and in many cases entertaining (e.g. bull fighting).Most shelters and municipal facilities have contracts with major pet food suppliers for food. I doubt many (any?) of those suppliers offer vegan dog food in bulk. But if they did, it would certainly be easy enough to order. In our case (Richmond Animal League) we order from Science Diet - puppy, kitten, adult, overweight, etc . And also order specialty/perscription food for various health concerns - renal, skin, underweight, etc. Keeping the same brand thought the shelter simplifies feeding by allowing management to indicate the amount each animal should get on the kennel card.
But we have absolutely no idea what the dogs are used to eating when we get them in - and many are obviously unhealthy. So we feed them the appropriate Science Diet until a side effect or issue comes up, at which point we get a vet recommendation to change. It would be very easy for the shelter to introduce vegan dog food, transition over, and try it out. (But it won't happen - no one listens to me!
Smaller, less well-funded rural shelters rely more on donations/discounted/out of date food and often end up unable to feed their residents a consistent diet, no matter what it is.
@Wolfie Are you sure chickens and cows (and ducks, lambs, salmon, venison, fish etc.) are not being killed to feed pets? I find that very hard to believe. I do understand that a lot of waste from human consumption ends up in dog food, but I cannot imagine the manufacture of pet food, especially given the number of pets we have, doesn't involve it's own degree of animal slaughter. I love to see a source for that.
eta #1 - I know slaughtered horses and injured animals are canned for pet food.
eta #2 - you really can't read about what goes into pet food without reading about rendering plants and all they terrible things they end up with. Horrible. The quantity of antibiotics and steriods that end up in the final food products is cause for alarm, imho.
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Vegan Dogs
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Just read this post.
Most of the argument points are based on taxonomy classifications.
Meaning people are stating "carnivore" and "omnivore" taxonomy classifications of wild animals which are NOT diet instructions at all but simply reflections on what animals eat in the wild...there is no nutritional analysis of what different levels of even carnivores eat.
i did a recent post explaining taxonomy...and in the post showed that even the classification "hyper carnivores" were eating digesting plant ingredients so nutrients and no "hyper carnivore" in the wild was eating more than 70% animal flesh meat ingredients so certainly not 100%.
Since the taxonomy classification has nothing to do with nutritional analysis...it was down to modern nutritional science to analyse exactly what proteins minerals nutrients were being digested well or not from plants and or flesh.
it turns out...that cats in fact...digest plant proteins even better than dogs do. we are not talking a "little bit" of digestion but the "majority" of plant proteins are digested well... an average plant protein digestibility of 88% in dogs and 96.1% in cats.
it turns out...there are only 4 nutrients that wild cats or domestic captive cats need that are not directly available in plants...one of those is ? taurine...see my post elsewhere for the other 3...but taurine in ALL commercial cat foods is actually SYNTHETIC not from animal flesh meat...so that discounts immediately the idea that cats "need" animal flesh meat to get essential life essential nutrients.
"Cats are obligate carnivores, which means that a diet that isn't exclusively animal based can have a deleterious effect on them " as someone wrote...is therefore scientifically a very incorrect statement.
It is incorrect on 2 counts...the statement bit about "if not exclusively" is completely wrong...not even the "hyper carnivore" species eat more than 70 percent animal based ingredients in the wild.
the 2nd count error is ? that cats are "obligate carnivores" because that classification only applies in the WILD I remind ...captive wild species lions for example do NOT get fed even 30 percent animal based flesh meat...they get fed SOY and many other plant source ingredients and nutrients. Fact. Just as i explained the domestic captive pet cats get taurine in their cat foods from synthetic human produced sources.
The basic mistake made is to take a simple taxonomy classification of what wild animals eat normally in the WILD to be a DIETARY DIRECTIVE...it is now scientifically proven...that the natural in the wild diets of wild lions is not actually healthy for them...74 percent of them die of renal kidney diseases caused by the high toxins in the animal flesh meats they eat...captive domestic pet cats are not even at HALF that level of kidney disease of course as their pet food is human prepared so safer and full of other less toxic ingredients not harmful to their kidneys.
Back however to the main point and topic of this post...which was...
should SHELTER dogs and cats be fed vegan.
Dr Armaiti May is the USA expert in cat and dog nutrition vet the most involved in this matter there fyi as i saw no one mention her name...worth looking up I suggest to learn more.
Let me now address the main question...
Let me put the question another way....
What are the factors that influence whether any rescue shelter animals lives are saved or not ?
well ?
Why ? do we even bother thinking we need to "save" any animals lives ?
are there "wild animal shelters" ? are there "farm animal shelters" ?
and what proportion of the different classifications of animals into
PET or FARM or WILD animal shelters are there ?
or could be ? or SHOULD be ?
There are a few shelters that do feed cats and dogs vegan. The majority however do not. That is the "as is" situation currently.
All of the shelters COULD legally and nutritionally feed cats and dogs vegan. It would mean less animals lives killed. It would simply mean if keeping to the same costs of the "as is" pet food costs 20% more rescue dogs and cats to euthanise in addition to the 4 million per year already euthanised in the USA but millions of farm animal lives saved.
What SHOULD we choose ? it is after all simply a "choice" of ..
1. Do we continue to spend money on saving ANY unwanted or cannot live independently captives of humans animals lives ?
2. Do we decide on who lives and who dies and on what basis ? racist/speciesist preferences for PETS or basis of numbers of lives affected ?
surely...if we wanted to save the MOST LIVES we would build and fund shelters for FARM ANIMALS the most...and they would be the most numerous of all animals in shelters charities fund ...well ? logical is that not ?
What we do know is...99 percent of all the moneys to rescues of any animals go to ? the PET ones...which have the LEAST numbers of animals in them.
I mean ONLY 4 million pet dog and cats per year get euthanised in rescues in the USA but...9 billion farm animals.
Leaving aside the FACT that the FDA and AAFCO in the USA who control pet food rules haver never recalled any BY LAW exceeding the aafco standards set for dog and cat food vegan pet foods...so no issue about NUTRITION adequacy involved...it now comes down to other factors...
which could be ?
1. cost
2. supporting the animal agriculture business profits
3. whether morally 1 life of a cat or dog is worth more ethically than 3000 rabbits bred for pet foods.
so I address the COST first before any ETHICS
1. Rule of thumb...if 1 USD per day is the VEGAN dog food cost...and the NON VEGAN bred and killed bunny rabbits dog food is 0.7 USD per day...vegan dog food is more expensive by about ? 20 percent ? you work it out...0.3 USD per day
however...COST is actually why 4 million pet dogs and cats are euthanised per year in the USA alone...10 percent of ones owned. It is impossible to keep them all alive on COST grounds
so we have no problem ethically on cost grounds killing milions of unwanted dogs and cat pets.
2. Support pet food industry profits...
Well of course 49% of all animals slaughtered do not end up in human food...so there would be a huge LOSS without putting up the price of human meat etc if pet food sales stopped using 30% of meat produced.
However...the pet food industry itself would not suffer...as the vegan pet food suppliers would benefit...and the COST of vegan pet food would reduce of course.
Simple supply and demand maths.
3. Ethics...do these matter ?
if people prefer PET dogs and cats to chickens...and it makes them "feel better" by donating to those rescues rather than rescues struggling to keep rescue chickens and pigs alive.....kill the pigs and chickens is the choice
IF ethics matter...and "minimal harm" vegan principle matters...how many lives are involved ?
1 dog or cat eats 3000 rabbit or chicken size farm produced and killed animals per 1 lifetime
So how many lives to kill ? is the ethical issue.
Most of the argument points are based on taxonomy classifications.
Meaning people are stating "carnivore" and "omnivore" taxonomy classifications of wild animals which are NOT diet instructions at all but simply reflections on what animals eat in the wild...there is no nutritional analysis of what different levels of even carnivores eat.
i did a recent post explaining taxonomy...and in the post showed that even the classification "hyper carnivores" were eating digesting plant ingredients so nutrients and no "hyper carnivore" in the wild was eating more than 70% animal flesh meat ingredients so certainly not 100%.
Since the taxonomy classification has nothing to do with nutritional analysis...it was down to modern nutritional science to analyse exactly what proteins minerals nutrients were being digested well or not from plants and or flesh.
it turns out...that cats in fact...digest plant proteins even better than dogs do. we are not talking a "little bit" of digestion but the "majority" of plant proteins are digested well... an average plant protein digestibility of 88% in dogs and 96.1% in cats.
it turns out...there are only 4 nutrients that wild cats or domestic captive cats need that are not directly available in plants...one of those is ? taurine...see my post elsewhere for the other 3...but taurine in ALL commercial cat foods is actually SYNTHETIC not from animal flesh meat...so that discounts immediately the idea that cats "need" animal flesh meat to get essential life essential nutrients.
"Cats are obligate carnivores, which means that a diet that isn't exclusively animal based can have a deleterious effect on them " as someone wrote...is therefore scientifically a very incorrect statement.
It is incorrect on 2 counts...the statement bit about "if not exclusively" is completely wrong...not even the "hyper carnivore" species eat more than 70 percent animal based ingredients in the wild.
the 2nd count error is ? that cats are "obligate carnivores" because that classification only applies in the WILD I remind ...captive wild species lions for example do NOT get fed even 30 percent animal based flesh meat...they get fed SOY and many other plant source ingredients and nutrients. Fact. Just as i explained the domestic captive pet cats get taurine in their cat foods from synthetic human produced sources.
The basic mistake made is to take a simple taxonomy classification of what wild animals eat normally in the WILD to be a DIETARY DIRECTIVE...it is now scientifically proven...that the natural in the wild diets of wild lions is not actually healthy for them...74 percent of them die of renal kidney diseases caused by the high toxins in the animal flesh meats they eat...captive domestic pet cats are not even at HALF that level of kidney disease of course as their pet food is human prepared so safer and full of other less toxic ingredients not harmful to their kidneys.
Back however to the main point and topic of this post...which was...
should SHELTER dogs and cats be fed vegan.
Dr Armaiti May is the USA expert in cat and dog nutrition vet the most involved in this matter there fyi as i saw no one mention her name...worth looking up I suggest to learn more.
Let me now address the main question...
Let me put the question another way....
What are the factors that influence whether any rescue shelter animals lives are saved or not ?
well ?
Why ? do we even bother thinking we need to "save" any animals lives ?
are there "wild animal shelters" ? are there "farm animal shelters" ?
and what proportion of the different classifications of animals into
PET or FARM or WILD animal shelters are there ?
or could be ? or SHOULD be ?
There are a few shelters that do feed cats and dogs vegan. The majority however do not. That is the "as is" situation currently.
All of the shelters COULD legally and nutritionally feed cats and dogs vegan. It would mean less animals lives killed. It would simply mean if keeping to the same costs of the "as is" pet food costs 20% more rescue dogs and cats to euthanise in addition to the 4 million per year already euthanised in the USA but millions of farm animal lives saved.
What SHOULD we choose ? it is after all simply a "choice" of ..
1. Do we continue to spend money on saving ANY unwanted or cannot live independently captives of humans animals lives ?
2. Do we decide on who lives and who dies and on what basis ? racist/speciesist preferences for PETS or basis of numbers of lives affected ?
surely...if we wanted to save the MOST LIVES we would build and fund shelters for FARM ANIMALS the most...and they would be the most numerous of all animals in shelters charities fund ...well ? logical is that not ?
What we do know is...99 percent of all the moneys to rescues of any animals go to ? the PET ones...which have the LEAST numbers of animals in them.
I mean ONLY 4 million pet dog and cats per year get euthanised in rescues in the USA but...9 billion farm animals.
Leaving aside the FACT that the FDA and AAFCO in the USA who control pet food rules haver never recalled any BY LAW exceeding the aafco standards set for dog and cat food vegan pet foods...so no issue about NUTRITION adequacy involved...it now comes down to other factors...
which could be ?
1. cost
2. supporting the animal agriculture business profits
3. whether morally 1 life of a cat or dog is worth more ethically than 3000 rabbits bred for pet foods.
so I address the COST first before any ETHICS
1. Rule of thumb...if 1 USD per day is the VEGAN dog food cost...and the NON VEGAN bred and killed bunny rabbits dog food is 0.7 USD per day...vegan dog food is more expensive by about ? 20 percent ? you work it out...0.3 USD per day
however...COST is actually why 4 million pet dogs and cats are euthanised per year in the USA alone...10 percent of ones owned. It is impossible to keep them all alive on COST grounds
so we have no problem ethically on cost grounds killing milions of unwanted dogs and cat pets.
2. Support pet food industry profits...
Well of course 49% of all animals slaughtered do not end up in human food...so there would be a huge LOSS without putting up the price of human meat etc if pet food sales stopped using 30% of meat produced.
However...the pet food industry itself would not suffer...as the vegan pet food suppliers would benefit...and the COST of vegan pet food would reduce of course.
Simple supply and demand maths.
3. Ethics...do these matter ?
if people prefer PET dogs and cats to chickens...and it makes them "feel better" by donating to those rescues rather than rescues struggling to keep rescue chickens and pigs alive.....kill the pigs and chickens is the choice
IF ethics matter...and "minimal harm" vegan principle matters...how many lives are involved ?
1 dog or cat eats 3000 rabbit or chicken size farm produced and killed animals per 1 lifetime
So how many lives to kill ? is the ethical issue.
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