Saudi women and the right to drive.

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led.boots

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" The Saudi government is currently considering a proposal to ban women –already forced to cover up most of their body in public –from even displaying their eyes, if they are judged too “tempting”."

How nice. Stumble around blindly.
 
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mlp

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It's a ****ed up society.

I hope that some day soon women in these countries where they are treated as chattels manage to band together and change things. I don't know how - they are so powerless - but I hope they somehow manage it.

Some of the stories coming out of these countries make me wish I could push a button and make most of the men in those countries vanish in a puff of smoke.
 

das_nut

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It's a backwards society full of repression. Shame there probably isn't an easy fix, and gender-, sexual-, and racial equality comes to that society, it's only going to be after much civil unrest.

Some of the stories coming out of these countries make me wish I could push a button and make most of the men in those countries vanish in a puff of smoke.

It's creepy to hear someone wish about making most people of a certain gender disappear.
 
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Digger

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As much as I hate hearing about stories like this, I really just wish we (the U.S.) would just pull out of these places entirely and leave them to their own devices. We didn't create the problem, we shouldn't be expected to fix it.
 
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mlp

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It's creepy to hear someone wish about making most people of a certain gender disappear.

Well, I was thinking if I could make only the ones who are into subjugating women disappear, that would give women a chance. But I'm perfectly willing to change the "most" to "all."
 

das_nut

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Well, I was thinking if I could make only the ones who are into subjugating women disappear, that would give women a chance. But I'm perfectly willing to change the "most" to "all."

Y'know, if you just broaden the scope to include both genders, you'd fit in well with the "glass parking lot" folks.
 

Pickle Juice

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Well, I was thinking if I could make only the ones who are into subjugating women disappear, that would give women a chance. But I'm perfectly willing to change the "most" to "all."
Wait, you aren't suggesting that a world without oppressors in it would be a better place for everyone else, are you? That's madness.
 
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Freesia

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It's creepy to hear someone wish about making most people of a certain gender disappear.

I understand exactly what she is saying. I read the books "Princess" and "Desert Royal" by Jean Sasson when I was a teen, and in the book you get to see how incredibly cruel men were allowed to be to women back in the 80s and 90s in Saudi Arabia, and I am not sure whether things have changed or not. The things I read about in the book are truly shocking.
 
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Freesia

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I remember reading in those books re driving btw that men could get their driving lience at the mature, responsible age of 12. Women- never. Their minds were considered too feeble, and religious leaders suggested that women would get too excited and emotional and race the cars everywhere, causing danger :rolleyes: .
 
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mlp

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Y'know, if you just broaden the scope to include both genders, you'd fit in well with the "glass parking lot" folks.

I'm trying to decide whether I care enough to look up that reference. Probably not.

Wait, you aren't suggesting that a world without oppressors in it would be a better place for everyone else, are you? That's madness.

I don't know - I think I've become convinced that getting rid of oppressors is a really creepy concept.
 

das_nut

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Wait, you aren't suggesting that a world without oppressors in it would be a better place for everyone else, are you? That's madness.

There's a difference between saying "hey, lets attack oppressive beliefs" and "lets get rid of everyone who shares the same biological gender as the oppressors." The former is to be commended, the later is abhorrent.

After all, you're talking getting rid of these oppressed womens' brothers and male children. Saudi mothers are human beings, they probably wouldn't appreciate you getting rid of their sons in order to protect them.
 
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I dont think you really understand the kind of thing that would go on there.Im going to write about some of the things in the book but I will put it in spoiler tags because it is awful.

For example I read about a woman in a violent arranged marriage which she had no choice but to enter at the age of 16. Her husband was repeatedly violent and sadistic and her parents would not let her leave the marriage. Eventually the husband put her in hospital with internal and external injuries, I wont even describe what he did. Only then was she allowed a divorce. And that was only because she was from a rich family. Many women in similar situations would have had to go back to the husband.

I also read about a young woman who was executed by her parents because she had been experimenting with men when she wasnt married (ie foreplay with strangers while keeping her face coverings on). To her parents, she had dishonoured her family so much they decided to kill her by drowning her. Everyone in the neighbourhood knew about the killing which was perfectly legal and upheld by the religious laws there. Noone objected to it.

I read about a third case of a woman who went to live in America and she was discovered to be dating an American man. Her family brought her home and as a punishment locked her in one room with no furniture or books, nothing at all, for years, only putting food through a slot at the bottom of the door. This was also perfectly legal, and after three years of being alone in the room the woman went insane and died. She was only about 28.
 

jeneticallymodified

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link # 1 took me here:

A shopping centre in China's Hebei province has built a car park with wider spaces that it says is designed especially to suit women drivers. The women-only car park in Shijiazhuang city is also painted in pink and light purple to appeal to female tastes.

Official Wang Zheng told AFP news agency the car park was meant to cater to women's "strong sense of colour and different sense of distance".
The parking bays are one metre (3ft) wider than normal spaces, he said. The Wanxiang-Tiancheng shopping centre had also "installed signs and security monitoring equipment that corresponded more to women's needs", he said.

The Global Times website says female parking attendants have been trained to help guide women drivers into their parking spaces. The bays also have extra lighting. Driving in China is a dangerous activity, with more than 200 deaths in road accidents each day last year, AFP reports, citing police statistics.

which made me go :brood:

link # 2:

The academics, working in conjunction with Kamal Subhi, a former professor at the conservative King Fahd University, produced the conclusions in a report for the country's legislative assembly, the Shura Council.

It warned that allowing women to drive would "provoke a surge in prostitution, pornography, homosexuality and divorce".
Within 10 years of the ban being lifted, it claimed, there would be "no more virgins" in the Islamic kingdom.

oh, really? REALLY? come on now. they could drive automatics so that their thighs wouldn't move against each other as they used the foot pedals (which'd stop them getting all excited), and they could make the gear-sticks extremely oversized in case anybody got any weird ideas about doing naughty things with them. but maybe that'd make the men feel all emasculated?

In the report Prof Subhi described sitting in a coffee shop in an unnamed Arab state where "all the women were looking at me".

maybe he's a bit 'funny lookin' and they were actually gawking with amusement?

"One made a gesture that made it clear that she was available,” he said. “This is what happens when women are allowed to drive.”

did she? what gesture was that then? :curious: maybe she was licking a bit of doughnut sugar off her lips while contemplating how funny lookin' he was. that's practically unavoidable. i wonder if he asked her whether or not she took the bus to the coffee shop.

you SEE- this is what happens when stupid men are allowed to make assumptions. they should all be kept inside their own homes, with blindfolds on. permanently.
 
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jeneticallymodified

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I dont think you really understand the kind of thing that would go on there.Im going to write about some of the things in the book but I will put it in spoiler tags because it is awful.

For example I read about a woman in a violent arranged marriage which she had no choice but to enter at the age of 16. Her husband was repeatedly violent and sadistic and her parents would not let her leave the marriage. Eventually the husband put her in hospital with internal and external injuries, I wont even describe what he did. Only then was she allowed a divorce. And that was only because she was from a rich family. Many women in similar situations would have had to go back to the husband.

I also read about a young woman who was executed by her parents because she had been experimenting with men when she wasnt married (ie foreplay with strangers while keeping her face coverings on). To her parents, she had dishonoured her family so much they decided to kill her by drowning her. Everyone in the neighbourhood knew about the killing which was perfectly legal and upheld by the religious laws there. Noone objected to it.

I read about a third case of a woman who went to live in America and she was discovered to be dating an American man. Her family brought her home and as a punishment locked her in one room with no furniture or books, nothing at all, for years, only putting food through a slot at the bottom of the door. This was also perfectly legal, and after three years of being alone in the room the woman went insane and died. She was only about 28.

i worked with a lady who lived in the UAE for a few years... she didn't love it. very oppressive.

i've read of similar things happening here in canada, with relatively new immigrants- for example, one man and his son killed the guy's first wife (he was married polygamously) and their 3 daughters- and pushed their car into a canal, and tried to claim they'd gone off joyriding in it and crashed. turns out that they'd started doing dreadful things like texting on their phones, wearing makeup, and suchlike, bringing dreadful shame upon the family.

women are effectively property over there. :(
 

das_nut

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I dont think you really understand the kind of thing that would go on there.

True or false: Sharing the same biological identity and state makes one automatically guilty and thus they should be "vanished"?
 

jeneticallymodified

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I dont think you really understand the kind of thing that would go on there.

i think he's pretty damned understandy. really, i do. :)

he just (wisely) doesn't feel that making a load of men disappear in a puff of smoke, would solve this problem.

what about the women left behind who depended upon and loved these men? do you think these women would suddenly happily frollick outside to their cars, unburdened by their chains which had been put on them by their fathers, brothers, sons, etc, and drive merrily around in some kind of middle eastern utopia?

cos that's not how it'd go. they'd still be exactly the same women- with the same pasts, learning, experience, behaviour patterns, etc. after most of them had starved, fought, floundered, or otherwise watched their society crumble somewhat, and struggled to get their heads around the enormity of what'd happened, other people would fill the gaps left by those men, and things would continue on in a relatively similar fashion- only with a whole shitload of traumatised women who had lost sons, brothers, fathers, cousins, uncles, etc- men who might have had their heads up their arses in some respects, but whom were otherwise rather uh.... present, and loved.

many of the women in that society may actually share the belief that they shouldn't be allowed to drive. they've been indoctrinated to believe so. should they be vanished in a puff of smoke too? or just brainwashed into changing their minds- to seeing things the 'right' way- the western way?

you don't solve a problem by killing people off. certainly not by killing them off based upon their gender. you solve it by educating them, and their children- the problems solve themselves, long term.