US Politics 2023

[Lou]

I know I shouldn't be rooting for chaos but I really have been enjoying the mess that is the Republicans trying to elect a leader in the House of Representatives.

Someone on Fox News called it a Clown Show which pretty much sums it up for me.

Enjoying the kooks go crazy is fun but it reminds me of a political cartoon that I once saw. The kids (labeled "Us") are laughing in the back of the and pointing at the bus driver whose hair is on fire, as he drives the bus off a cliff. Yeah it's funny to watch but we are all on this bus. I think in the cartoon, Trump was the Bus Driver.

I haven't seen any serious discussion on this topic but Hakeem Jeffries only needs like 10 Republicans to cross the aisle to get elected speaker. You would think that there must be ten Republicans that could be bribed with committee positions or threatened with indictments. I read that stuff like this used to regularly happen in the 18th century. Also something like this happened in 1917 under Wilson. Probably can't happen but it's fun to think about.

Some other countries do something similar. Coalition governments or ruling by a plurality instead of a majority. Could be the best case for the United States.

 

[PTree15]

I can't imagine that any Republicans would defect for Jeffries (though that would be awesome), not with everything nationally being party-centric. And this version of the GOP does not compromise. I mean, just look at the Senate. It was rare to get even a handful of Republicans to vote for anything, even it it was good for their constituents.

At this point, I say let them stay paralyzed. I really don't want what Republicans want to do anyway. So the less they can get done with their agenda, the better. I just hope voters remember this BS when it's time for the 2024 elections.

 

[silva]

I'm happy to see the repubs implode. They got greedy.

 

[Sax]

House Democrats should unite with moderate Republicans to elect a speaker | Robert Reich

In exchange for backing a relatively moderate Republican such as Fred Upton or David Joyce as speaker, Democrats should demand they get equal seats on committees

www.theguardian.com

Not sure how I feel about this idea. If the dems could get a guarantee enough republicans would help raise the debt ceiling it would be worth it.

 

[Lou]

I can't imagine that any Republicans would defect for Jeffries (though that would be awesome), not with everything nationally being party-centric. And this version of the GOP does not compromise. I mean, just look at the Senate. It was rare to get even a handful of Republicans to vote for anything, even it it was good for their constituents.

At this point, I say let them stay paralyzed. I really don't want what Republicans want to do anyway. So the less they can get done with their agenda, the better. I just hope voters remember this BS when it's time for the 2024 elections.

I agree with everything you said but....
at some point the congress has to raise the debt ceiling. (its a stupid out dated thing - we really need to get rid of it). Anyway if they can't manage to do that they can send the world into chaos.
There is also plenty of other necessary thing they do that have to get done. And then there is the issue of what happens if they have to respond to an emergency.
Sure leave them paralyzed so they can't do anything bad but then they are also can't actually govern - and at some point we will need to them to do something.

 

[Lou]

House Democrats should unite with moderate Republicans to elect a speaker | Robert Reich

In exchange for backing a relatively moderate Republican such as Fred Upton or David Joyce as speaker, Democrats should demand they get equal seats on committees

www.theguardian.com

Not sure how I feel about this idea. If the dems could get a guarantee enough republicans would help raise the debt ceiling it would be worth it.

That is a good idea. And way more possible and probable than my idea of bribing a dozen republicans to vote for Jeffies.

 

[silva]

The democrats are the only moderate republicans

 

[PTree15]

I agree with everything you said but....
at some point the congress has to raise the debt ceiling. (its a stupid out dated thing - we really need to get rid of it). Anyway if they can't manage to do that they can send the world into chaos.
There is also plenty of other necessary thing they do that have to get done. And then there is the issue of what happens if they have to respond to an emergency.
Sure leave them paralyzed so they can't do anything bad but then they are also can't actually govern - and at some point we will need to them to do something.

Oh, I know. A girl can dream, though.

 

[beforewisdom]

I'm concerned about the concessions McCarthy needed to make in order to get voted in.

Some of the concessions will allow a smaller number of republicans shut down having the debt ceiling raised, shut down the government, stall the budget process, and harm the US in other ways

https://www.cnn.com/2023/01/04/politics/mccarthy-gop-speaker-hardliners-what-matters/index.html

 

[Lou]

I'm concerned about the concessions McCarthy needed to make in order to get voted in.

Some of the concessions will allow a smaller number of republicans shut down having the debt ceiling raised, shut down the government, stall the budget process, and harm the US in other ways

https://www.cnn.com/2023/01/04/politics/mccarthy-gop-speaker-hardliners-what-matters/index.html

absolutely. they will hold all those things hostage. Demanding far right agenda concessions

As the self appointed eternal optimist here at the VF, there may be a silver lining.
For instance those things you mentioned HAVE to get done. If the republicans can't get it done they may find them selves having to work with Democrats- and making progressive agenda concessions to them instead. Could be that a unified left has more power in the house than a divided right.

 

[Lou]

at least one other guy sees a posibilty of something other than catastrophe.

There are at least some Republicans who might be inclined to vote for spending bills and a debt ceiling increase, not wanting to see a government shutdown or a debt default, Mr. McCarthy potentially among them. They would have an incentive to work with Democrats on bipartisan deals that could make it through the Senate and to President Biden’s desk.

Still, more pragmatic Republicans — like Representatives Tom Cole of Oklahoma and Brian Fitzpatrick of Pennsylvania — have acknowledged the realities of needing to negotiate spending bills with Democratic senators, and suggested they would work to help ensure compromise bills become law.

Why McCarthy’s Slog to Speaker Could Mean Dysfunction Ahead in the House

The top Republican already had to work with a tiny majority and an emboldened right flank. Concessions he made to win his speakership gave the rebels more tools to sow disarray.

www.nytimes.com

 

[Lou]

also keep in mind with a Democrat Senate and White House the House can't get anything too crazy passed

 

[PTree15]

I'm concerned about the concessions McCarthy needed to make in order to get voted in.

Some of the concessions will allow a smaller number of republicans shut down having the debt ceiling raised, shut down the government, stall the budget process, and harm the US in other ways

https://www.cnn.com/2023/01/04/politics/mccarthy-gop-speaker-hardliners-what-matters/index.html

That's why I was really hoping they'd get someone else. He had to give up way too much, and having to give in to the holdouts wasn't good.

 

[Lou]

I started Watching The Last of Us so this resonated with me.

Anyone remember the short lived TV show, Brain Dead. Was it ahead of its time or perhaps people just don't appreciate sarcasm?

 

[silva]

I started Watching The Last of Us so this resonated with me.

Anyone remember the short lived TV show, Brain Dead. Was it ahead of its time or perhaps people just don't appreciate sarcasm?

It's so hard to appreciate sarcasm with the current republican party. I've found myself laughing at what I think is a comedy routine only to find out it's coming from an elected official
Like rump in East Palestine Ohio today---HIS removal of safety inspections largely caused the horrific train crash and he's twisting it around to be his campaign speech. OH governor DeWine actually turned away federal funding -- and rump attacks Biden for not giving funds
I hate that man baby soooo much

 

[Lou]

I posted this in the Florida Man thread and got no reaction.

Maybe it will get some comments here.
___________________________________

May you live in interesting times​

- An ancient Chinese curse

​

The scuttlebutt is that sometime this week the NY State DA is going to submit an arrest warrant for Donald Trump (1). I think everyone hopes that Trump surrenders himself peacefully.

The general consensus is that he won't.

That alone is worrisome. But even worse, Trump is asking for protestors to hit the street (2). One Maga hat influencer is calling for a "Patriot moat" around Mar-a-Lago. “Stop the Steal” leader Ali Alexander suggested “100,000 patriots” should “shut down all routes to Mar-a-Lago.” (3)

Another concern is that a few years back doing the whole BLM thing, Desantos signed a bill into law that would allow cars to hit protestors (4). This particular law has never been tested but I'm not looking forward to people testing it.

Another possibility is that the staff at Mar-a-Lago, sick of constantly having to testify to grand juries, form a mosh pit, from the hotel to the Atlantic, and dump Trump's *** into the sea. Hopefully just in time for the sargassum blob to hit Florida (5).

My advice to our Florida members is to implement their hurricane evacuation plan. Grab that Go-Bag and start driving north. And don't stop till you hit Maryland. You don't want a ringside seat to the beginning of the next Civil War. Or to get stuck on the wrong side of the Confederate States - Union border (5).




1. - Trump Claims His Arrest Is Imminent and Calls for Protests, Echoing Jan. 6
2. - Trump predicts imminent arrest, calls for protests
3. - Officials Prep for Protests as MAGA Sycophants Push ‘Patriot Moat’ Around Mar-a-Lago
4. - Florida’s Trump-Loving Governor Just Made It OK to Hit Protesters With Your Car
5. - How the Second Civil War Could Start

 

[Sax]

^this is why it was important to make examples of the Jan 6 rioters. Trump-nuts with otherwise comfortable, stable lives will think twice before acting like being a white conservative is a get out of jail free card.

There are plenty of less stable Trump-nuts to worry about but I'd be surprised if we see the level of organization and mass participation we saw Jan 6.

 

[Lou]

I'd be surprised if we see the level of organization and mass participation we saw Jan 6.

Not to mention the lack of preparation and organization of law enforcement

 

[Jamie in Chile]

So it looks like Trump`s arrest and trial has boosted his results in surveys against DeSantis, making him currently the favourite for the nomination.

President: Republican primary : 2024 Polls

The latest political polls and polling averages from FiveThirtyEight.

projects.fivethirtyeight.com

Biden vs Trump, in a hypothetical 2024 match, still looks very even and Trump´s arrest hasn´t changed things at all.
President: general election Polls has a summary of some recent polls

 

[Lou]