US Politics-2021

Sax

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Something has gone wrong when the fate of the US´s climate policy comes down to someone (Manchin) that owns million of dollars of stocks in coal.

The US political power has been captured by fossil fuel interests, and more broadly corporate power, and is not democratic. While it´s worthy to try and get this bill through, there also needs to be a movement for broader change.

This is why I supported Elizabeth Warren in the primaries. She understood that dealing with political corruption is a prerequisite for all the other legislation progressives want to see passed.

And it's not just a matter of sleazy conservatives or corporate-friendly centrists. All politicians exist in a system with corrupt incentives and that factors in the decision making of every single one, whether it causes them to betray their values or just makes doing the right thing that much harder or less effective.

I think the Democrats are really failing to meet the moment. They're completely failing to treat corruption, big data-driven misinformation, voting rights and the Republicans' preparations for election subversion with the seriousness that's needed. Instead they're arguing about numbers abstracted from policy goals, and whatever they settle on will be a convoluted mess they'll struggle to explain to voters.

I hope I'll look back years from now and feel silly for misreading where my country is at. But it seems like our sense of national unity is dissolving and the risk of authoritarianism and political violence is rising. Meanwhile Democrats are acting like its politics as usual....is infrastructure spending really the nation's top priority?
 

KLS52

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I saw a big pickup truck in my apartment complex with this bumper sticker "Trump DeSantis 2024." :yuck: Though Ron says this:

We need a spew 🤢🤮reaction option lol.
 

Lou

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I guess Desantis was calling Austraila's covid protection strategy tyranny. I believe he was saying it worse than China. He even wondered outloud if we should break ties with Australia.

Chris Hayes points out that Floridas Covid Mortality rate is 50 times greater than Australia's. I wonder how the 50,000 Floridians who died of Covid over the last couple of years would feel if they knew they were being sacrificed for "freedom" and the "fight against tyranny".

oh. here is the clip.

 

Jamie in Chile

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I think I agree with all of that Sax, apart from 1 or 2 bits I don´t have knowledge on.

I think the democrats are failing to fight for democracy enough. Voting rights is just one part of it, there´s also the electoral college, the composition of the senate, gerrymandering, lobbying, money in politics. That´s the part where the democrats may actually lose in spite of more people being on their side than the Republicans.

I also think that 2016 was a wake up call for Democrats that they are not focused on the needs of "ordinary" people / working class people. They could have reacted to the that by being more pro-police, anti-crime, taking a stand on the excesses of cancel culture, and being careful not to seem like they are in favour of illegal immigration. All of these are vote losers. It feels like they got hit with an enormous wake up call in 2016 and totally ignored it. That´s the part where they may actually lose democratically.
 

anarchist100

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I guess Desantis was calling Austraila's covid protection strategy tyranny. I believe he was saying it worse than China. He even wondered outloud if we should break ties with Australia.

Chris Hayes points out that Floridas Covid Mortality rate is 50 times greater than Australia's. I wonder how the 50,000 Floridians who died of Covid over the last couple of years would feel if they knew they were being sacrificed for "freedom" and the "fight against tyranny".

oh. here is the clip.

Australia's covid response is tyranny, sure less people died of Covid, but you know what else would prevent people from dying of Covid? Shooting anyone who leaves their house and going door to door shoving needles in people's arms against their will, would you want that? I get that you think freedom sometimes needs to be sacrificed for safety, but where do you draw the line?
 

Amy SF

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People have to be forced to do the right thing. If that means forcing everyone to get vaccinated to prevent thousands of deaths, I’m all for it.
 

Lou

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It might be just a little tricky to decide where to draw the line. But I don't think enforcing quarantines during a pandemic is tyranny. Neither is mandating vaccines.

I might be all for more individual choices but its pretty clear that you can't trust individuals to make good decisions. Not with the Zombie Death Cult cheerleaders who have polarized what should be a clear and easy choice. And the anti-vaxers and anti-maskers putting the everyone else at risk.
 

anarchist100

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People have to be forced to do the right thing. If that means forcing everyone to get vaccinated to prevent thousands of deaths, I’m all for it.
I have two questions for you,
1, since when is the collective good the responsibility of the individual.
2, to what extent do people need to be forced to do the right thing? Are people so evil that strict authoritarian laws are the only way to get them to do the right thing? And if people are that evil how can we trust the government to do the right thing?
 

Jamie in Chile

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It´s looking shaky for the budget reconciliation bill, which is the only major federal option on the table to help fight climate change....

Groups funded by major corporate interests are working to kill off the bill, as discussed here:

Apple, Amazon and Google for example are members of the Business Round Table, which means all of them are indirectly funding the attempts to kill off the bill. Here is the full list of companies that are providing such financial support to kill it:

OK I thought about this a bit more and I have just written to some companies whose products I use - Microsoft, Apple, Amazon, Disney, Google, Netflix, Linked In - to complain about them (indirectly) opposing federal climate legislation. In some cases I decided to stop using their products altogether, and in some cases greatly reduce the amount of money I spend with their company, and I informed the companies of my decisions. I hope at least some of them read the messages. I managed to get it all done in about 30-40 minutes which was way faster than I thought.

I am no more going to support a company fighting against climate change legislation than I would support one that was fighting against women´s rights or fighting against groups fighting for racial equality.
 

silva

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245299070_213578630873719_7713958420341200742_n.jpg
 

Sax

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^and that's on top of the threat that he could legitimately win
 
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Lou

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Silver lining:
With the constant threat to our democracy, justice, and equality, there is no room for complacency.
The liberals and progressives who became activated in 2016 (like myself) can't pat them selves on the back and go home. We will have to stay activated and involved. We do outnumber them but we will have to remain involved. No longer is going to the voting booth once a year all that is requried. moderates and progressives are even traditional conservatives will have to find common ground and work together.

I'm thinking that the California recall might be a good example and lesson. At first it was neck and neck even tho D's outnumbered R's almost 2:1. The R's were way more involved and active. Then it got scary and the D's came out in force.