US Police as money maker the reason for current problems?

Andy_T

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I found this interesting article ...

Police Shootings Won't Stop Unless We Also Stop Shaking Down Black People | Mother Jones

When I first heard about the killing of Philando Castile by police officers in Minnesota, other than shocked and outraged by the story, I was also quite surprised by one small aspect: one article shared his "rap sheet" where I learned that he had no prior felonies or crimes, however he had about 50 unpaid traffic fines. There was also a list of those fines given (some of which had been cancelled by court) ... Yes, there were a few speeding and parking violations, however, the majority was for offences like driving without insurance, not being able to provide proof of insurance, driving after revocation of license (ok, that certainly does not sound smart) or similar.

Philando Castile: Arrest Record, Criminal & Traffic History & Rap Sheet

http://www.businessinsider.com/ap-stopped-52-times-by-police-was-it-racial-profiling-2016-7

I tried to remember how often I had been checked by police in the last couple of years, and it was maybe a few times in total. So is the US police is a model of efficiency that is much more active than police in other countries? Or was Mr Castile a very bad and/or unlucky driver?

Or are there other reasons for that? To be honest, it really looks like targeted harrassment to me if a person of colour gets stopped by police at least 50 times (assuming there were stops where everything was correct) in a few years ....
 
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Do not click on the second link. There is a large image at the top of the page of Philando Castile in the passenger seat after the police officer shot him multiple times, while a child was sitting in the backseat.

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A police officer can follow you while you're driving and eventually pull you over. Because there are so many potential traffic infractions, it is impossible to drive without committing one. This gives police officers a lot of power. They can pull over anybody they want. A "good" officer will wait for you to commit a traffic violation. A bad officer won't.

As former D.C. prosecutor Paul Butler writes in Let's Get Free: A Hip-Hop Theory of Justice: "Then comes the questioning, followed sometimes by the order to get out of the car, the pat down, the flashlight search inside the car, the request to open the trunk, the call for backup."

More (paraphrased):

Police can ask to search you, your possessions or your car without telling you that you have the right to say no. Police can arrest you for a minor traffic offense. You can be handcuffed and taken to jail even if the offense you've committed carries no jail time. If you run, and as a result cause danger to the police or others, they can shoot you.

Mr. Castile was over-policed, likely due to him being a Black man. Unfortunately, racial profiling is legal in most states and the courts will usually approve of it as a "legitimate law enforcement tactic".
 
And if a police officer pulls you over, they will ask if you know why they pulled you over. You do not have to incriminate yourself. Let them answer that question.
 
Also, it's interesting that the media will publish the criminal record of a Black person murdered by police, as if to justify his or her demise.
 
And if a police officer pulls you over, they will ask if you know why they pulled you over. You do not have to incriminate yourself. Let them answer that question.
I always answer, "No, I have no idea." I often work late hours, and I can't tell you how many times I've been pulled over for various things like a busted taillight or some other ridiculous reason because they assume anyone out driving late at night must be drunk. I know this isn't on the scale of what minorities endure, but it does illustrate the power the police have for something as innocuous as a broken taillight. I've often wanted to get out of the car right there and check it, but I know all that would do is escalate things. The last time this happened the officer actually issued me a ticket to get my light fixed. It has to be signed by a mechanic and returned within five days or you get fined. My mechanic was like, there's nothing wrong with the light, which I knew, so he signed it for me anyway.

I was married to a cop, and he was one of the good guys, but I know there are some who are not. I think half the problem today is that psychological testing needs to improve so that the trigger-happy, power-hungry a--holes don't get hired.
 
There are a lot of municipalities that use minor traffic violations as their primary sources of revenue. (It is a big problem, as MJ points out, and it forces the police into a role they shouldn't have.) There is no question in my mind that police target people of color and low income people for such stops. Partially, that's simply a matter of economics, since they are the people who are least likely to contest the tickets (as a result of not having the resources to hire lawyers, or the confidence or knowledge to attempt to contest on their own), and the revenue/cost ratio for uncontested tickets is much higher than if someone contests the ticket. Partially, it's a matter of politics - public employees don't want to **** off the people with clout in the community, and the wealthy and middle class people have clout, while the poor and minorities don't.

A lot of it is also the vehicle you happen to be driving. Years ago, I was driving on a two lane road through one of the wealthiest of the local suburbs (multi million dollar houses along both sides of the road). I was going with the flow of traffic, not paying any particular attention to the speed limit, when I saw a flashing light about five vehicles behind me. I looked down at the speedometer, and saw that we were all going about eight mph above the speed limit. I also saw that the cars in front of and behind me were all Mercs, Jags, and the like, while I was driving a moderately priced five year old Ford. I wasn't in the least surprised when it was I who was culled from the herd and given a speeding ticket.

Currently, I get pulled over occasionally on various pretexts if I'm out late and am driving the almost 30 year old red pickup that we keep for hauling stuff. That never happens when I'm driving the 5 year old Honda compact.

Of course, being a white senior citizen who presents as an educated middle class person when approached, I'm never ticketed, just presented with a variety of reasons for being stopped, such as "Did you know you crossed the median?"

These problematic behaviors (I'm talking about the racial and economic profiling and using traffic citations as a municipal revenue stream)) don't originate with the police. They start at the highest levels of local government, with the complicity and often at the behest of the voters, especially the affluent voters who have the ability to influence local elections.
 
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I wasn't exactly sure where to put this on this forum as quite a few of the threads on here about about guns and this isn't to do with driving, but is it just time for a thorough investigation into the US police at this point?

I have been seeing this video on TV over the last couple of days after the events and I was so shocked by the treatment of the young black girl by the police. Texas pool party chaos: Police officer resigns - CNN.com

I was married to a cop, and he was one of the good guys, but I know there are some who are not. I think half the problem today is that psychological testing needs to improve so that the trigger-happy, power-hungry a--holes don't get hired.

:yes: I think you may be right.
 
There are a lot of municipalities that use minor traffic violations as their primary sources of revenue. (It is a big problem, as MJ points out, and it forces the police into a role they shouldn't have.) There is no question in my mind that police target people of color and low income people for such stops. Partially, that's simply a matter of economics, since they are the people who are least likely to contest the tickets (as a result of not having the resources to hire lawyers, or the confidence or knowledge to attempt to contest on their own), and the revenue/cost ratio for uncontested tickets is much higher than if someone contests the ticket. Partially, it's a matter of politics - public employees don't want to **** off the people with clout in the community, and the wealthy and middle class people have clout, while the poor and minorities don't.

A lot of it is also the vehicle you happen to be driving. Years ago, I was driving on a two lane road through one of the wealthiest of the local suburbs (multi million dollar houses along both sides of the road). I was going with the flow of traffic, not paying any particular attention to the speed limit, when I saw a flashing light about five vehicles behind me. I looked down at the speedometer, and saw that we were all going about eight mph above the speed limit. I also saw that the cars in front of and behind me were all Mercs, Jags, and the like, while I was driving a moderately priced five year old Ford. I wasn't in the least surprised when it was I who was culled from the herd and given a speeding ticket.

Currently, I get pulled over occasionally on various pretexts if I'm out late and am driving the almost 30 year old red pickup that we keep for hauling stuff. That never happens when I'm driving the 5 year old Honda compact.

Of course, being a white senior citizen who presents as an educated middle class person when approached, I'm never ticketed, just presented with a variety of reasons for being stopped, such as "Did you know you crossed the median?"

These problematic behaviors (I'm talking about the racial and economic profiling and using traffic citations as a municipal revenue stream)) don't originate with the police. They start at the highest levels of local government, with the complicity and often at the behest of the voters, especially the affluent voters who have the ability to influence local elections.
That's usually what happens to me as well, but that last time was annoying. I'm very careful not to speed on the road I live on because the police are always staked out there, as most of the people speed on it. :D

Sometimes I feel we are taking more steps backward than forward when it comes to race relations in this country. It's damn frustrating.
 
I wasn't exactly sure where to put this on this forum as quite a few of the threads on here about about guns and this isn't to do with driving, but is it just time for a thorough investigation into the US police at this point?

I have been seeing this video on TV over the last couple of days after the events and I was so shocked by the treatment of the young black girl by the police. Texas pool party chaos: Police officer resigns - CNN.com



:yes: I think you may be right.
The other societal issue I think is problematic is a complete breakdown in civility in general. People are so disrespectful of each other and are only interested in themselves and people just treat each other so badly.
 
The other societal issue I think is problematic is a complete breakdown in civility in general. People are so disrespectful of each other and are only interested in themselves and people just treat each other so badly.

I think a large part of that depends on where you live. In the Midwest, I find most people to be polite/helpful/downright nice. In rural areas, if there's an accident, pretty much everyone stops to help render aid until the authorities can get there. In metropolitan areas, that's less so, but most people, with the exception of the occasional idiot, behave civilly on the road, in stores and other public places.
 
So what about Baton Rouge?

And might the friendliness of your fellow citizens also have something to do with the colour of your skin?


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So what about Baton Rouge?

And might the friendliness of your fellow citizens also have something to do with the colour of your skin?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I was responding to PTree's Comment about "a complete breakdown of civility in general", not making a comment about race relations or racial bigotry. I think that, if one spends a lot of time on the internet, one might well reach the same conclusion as PTree; the internet seems to embolden people to let fly with their worst instincts. IRL, though, I haven't experienced a decrease of civility in general during my sixty years on this planet.

Civility is something completely different from bigotry. It can be used to mask bigotry. My sister and I were just talking about that the other day - how one of the less pleasant aspects of being African American in this society must be to be left wondering, after every encounter with a white stranger, to what extent that stranger's smile or polite words were being used to disguise the fact that the person actually despises you.

Baton Rouge is not in the Midwest; it's in the South, and specifically in a state that has long had a reputation for unchecked corruption and abusive treatment of people of color.

As far as civility is concerned, although I can't speak to Baton Rouge specifically, since I've never been there, I would say, however, that in general, Southerners are probably more civil than any other area of the U.S. Of course, that civility often masks very negative feelings, either about the individual being addressed, or some group to which the individual belongs, or both.