I have read of plants being able to hear/feel/think and hence suffer. Plants will secrete chemicals and move in terror at the sound of caterpillars eating them. What is the divide that allows us to feast on them and not animals?
Please Help Distinction of Species
- Thread starter HoldenKauxe
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Vegan Dogs
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1. plants have no brain so what is making a decision other than a reaction chemically of a plant ?
2. Plants have no central nervous system...so what is feeling pain ?
if these 2 important distinctions are not addressed then the argument that "plants have feelings" like sentient beings with brains and central nervous systems fails.
it is easy for an organism to react ... plants react to light water and food in the area around them...there is no decision making involved as no brains just reactions to stimuli
if you seriously have an idea that plants "think and feel" them provide the science....the science says they do not.
and if they did...which they do not...then animal agriculture murders billions more of them than if only a plant based diet were chosen. principle of minimal harm.
2. Plants have no central nervous system...so what is feeling pain ?
if these 2 important distinctions are not addressed then the argument that "plants have feelings" like sentient beings with brains and central nervous systems fails.
it is easy for an organism to react ... plants react to light water and food in the area around them...there is no decision making involved as no brains just reactions to stimuli
if you seriously have an idea that plants "think and feel" them provide the science....the science says they do not.
and if they did...which they do not...then animal agriculture murders billions more of them than if only a plant based diet were chosen. principle of minimal harm.
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Brian W
Conscientious Christian
The evidence is weak and hasn't been peer reviewed or replicated in numerous scientific studies and plants have no nervous systems so it seems highly unlikely that they are aware of anything at all. Regardless of that, most crops that we grow are fed to animals so that people can eat meat. If there were no animal agriculture, far fewer plants would be killed.
Lou
Forum Legend
Brian makes a good point but I think the main thing is what you are talking about is an organism's ability to react to the environment. this is not intelligence. Or sentience. The acid test is: does the organism have neurons?
BTW, some of your phrases bring up the stuff in The Secret Life of Plants. Keep in mind that none of those experiments were ever replicated. the book has been debunked over and over. And even the authors have admitted to making up the whole thing.
Speaking of something reacting to the environment, just reminded me of something my biology prof showed the class (shoot it must have been 40 years ago). He had an overhead projector and something set up so the class could not see what was on the overhead. He had a glass Petrie dish and we could see a "blob" in a solution. when he added "food" to the Petrie dish the blob reacted to it, moved towards it, and "ate" it. It even left a little trail of excretions. (I think the food was a potassium compound and the solution was an acid, thus causing a strong chemical reaction).
Anyway, the point was there are chemical reactions and then there are conscious reactions. What you see in plants are just chemical reactions
Beegans and bivalve vegans use this same line of reasoning but flip it on its head. Oysters and bees react to the environment. but strictly speaking, have no brains. But this is a can of worms and creates some real puzzles. A good simple approach is that they are biologically classified as animals so they are off the menu. Or you could say that we can't prove they don't feel pain - we do know they have sensory organs. and react to stimuli.
Another thing that people who wish to argue with vegans brings up is the mycorrhizal networks that exist under forests. These even resemble nervous systems.
BTW, some of your phrases bring up the stuff in The Secret Life of Plants. Keep in mind that none of those experiments were ever replicated. the book has been debunked over and over. And even the authors have admitted to making up the whole thing.
Speaking of something reacting to the environment, just reminded me of something my biology prof showed the class (shoot it must have been 40 years ago). He had an overhead projector and something set up so the class could not see what was on the overhead. He had a glass Petrie dish and we could see a "blob" in a solution. when he added "food" to the Petrie dish the blob reacted to it, moved towards it, and "ate" it. It even left a little trail of excretions. (I think the food was a potassium compound and the solution was an acid, thus causing a strong chemical reaction).
Anyway, the point was there are chemical reactions and then there are conscious reactions. What you see in plants are just chemical reactions
Beegans and bivalve vegans use this same line of reasoning but flip it on its head. Oysters and bees react to the environment. but strictly speaking, have no brains. But this is a can of worms and creates some real puzzles. A good simple approach is that they are biologically classified as animals so they are off the menu. Or you could say that we can't prove they don't feel pain - we do know they have sensory organs. and react to stimuli.
Another thing that people who wish to argue with vegans brings up is the mycorrhizal networks that exist under forests. These even resemble nervous systems.
David3
Forum Legend
Wow, its a troll topic to be new and unaware... I didn't know so I asked. How are people supposed to be less ignorant if they are shunned for seeking knowledge.
Anyways I appreciate the responses and will think about this more.
Anyways I appreciate the responses and will think about this more.
Lou
Forum Legend
Although I have heard your question a hundred times I always assume that the person asking it is asking it for the first time and I make it a point to answer it thoroughly and completely. Even if the person who asks it is a troll, someone else reading it may learn something.
David and I agree on almost everything but I think he jumped the gun and was too quick to judge.
I hadn't seen VeganDogs reply for some reason. So thumbs up for her (him?) too.
David and I agree on almost everything but I think he jumped the gun and was too quick to judge.
I hadn't seen VeganDogs reply for some reason. So thumbs up for her (him?) too.
Brian W
Conscientious Christian
Lou
Forum Legend
I wonder if you type something up but don't "post reply" till later ....That is so weird. I didn't see Vegan Dogs post when I made mine. It has only just now appeared. It must be Halloween or something (cue The Twilight Zone music)
