Plant Protein Requirements For An Adult

[Olga]

Good morning - just joined this forum, yesterday.
I decided to follow a mostly vegetarian diet about two years ago - I still eat fish, or chicken, occasionally, only because I worry about protein. I have never been able to figure out what an average serving of anything is. I am aware of protein combining, but if I am using beans for two meals a day, I would like to know what that means in terms of volume. Although I have a scale, I am not prepared to weigh my meals. It would make life easier to know that I need to consume a given volume - a cup, a pint - of pulses, each day, along with rice or something and then distribute that among daily meals/recipes, to know that I am getting enough protein.
Thanks in advance.

 

[Olga]

Off Topic
Is there a way to edit to correct typos.

 

[Second Summer]

Welcome to the forum!

Off Topic
Is there a way to edit to correct typos.

I fixed the misspelled header for you. You can edit your post by clicking the little "Edit" link under each post. You can edit the titles of your own threads by clicking the Thread Tools drop-down menu (located on the right, heightwise between the title and the first post) and selecting Edit Thread.

 

[Second Summer]

I decided to follow a mostly vegetarian diet about two years ago - I still eat fish, or chicken, occasionally, only because I worry about protein. I have never been able to figure out what an average serving of anything is. I am aware of protein combining, but if I am using beans for two meals a day, I would like to know what that means in terms of volume. Although I have a scale, I am not prepared to weigh my meals. It would make life easier to know that I need to consume a given volume - a cup, a pint - of pulses, each day, along with rice or something and then distribute that among daily meals/recipes, to know that I am getting enough protein.

First off, the original idea with protein combining was that they thought you had to get proteins, or rather, essential amino acids, from two different sources (typically from legumes and from grains) in the same meal. This is now considered to be a misunderstanding as it doesn't have to be in the same meal, instead I think it's over the course of a day.

This short article outlines the protein recommendations:
Meeting Protein Needs on a Vegan Diet: The Calorie Connection (Ginny Messina, March 13, 2011)

So around 0.4 to 0.45 grams of protein per pound of ideal body weight. To find how to meet that requirement is just a matter of calculations. The NutritionData website has good data on the protein (and other nutrients) in different foods, including volume measurements:
http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/legumes-and-legume-products/10530/2 (Refried beans here as an example)

 

[mary1]

Just for a fast estimation, I am a 5'4" and 150lbs woman. Very average in North American standards. I am trying to lose weight so I aim for about 1600 calories per day. On that plan, I aim for about 60gof protein a day.

What does 60 g of protein look like? Luckily, I have been writing down what I've been eating for the last little while so I can share it with you. Here's a page from a few days ago:

Breakfast

• 2 slices of sprouted grain bread (silverhills mack's flax) 12g
• 2 tbs peanut butter 8g
• 1 cup vanilla soy milk 7g

Total protein for breakfast: 27g

Lunch

• homemade potato and leek soup 8g
• 1 slice of sprouted grain bread 6g
• big salad of spinach, romaine, and cherry tomatoes 3g
• lemon tahini dressing 2g

Total protein for lunch: 19g

Dinner

• 1 cup brown rice 5g
• Hearts Choices Vegan ginger chicken(1 serving) 7g
• 1 cup garlic sauteed kale 2g
• Tofutti ice cream bar 2g

total Protein for dinner: 16g

Total protein for the day: 62g

I just added up the protein numbers for you; it's not really something I focus on. But as you can see, you don't really need to do anything fancy to get enough protein. Many vegetables and grains that you may not really associate with "high-protein" can add up to alot.
good luck!

 

[Olga]

Thank you for your responses and please accept my apologies - I signed up with an email address that I rarely check. I will try to be a little more with it in future.
That being said, I am still not clear on the matter - still don't know how much protein per day is optimal. I have read that 46 grams is enough for a 150-pound woman, but I have also read that I need over 90 grams per day. However, this page -- Protein: What Is It and How Much Do I Need? -- says that 90 grams is enough for a 250-pound individual. I have read Meeting Protein Needs on a Vegan Diet: The Calorie Connection | The Vegan RD and according to the calculation, there, it should be 150*.45=67.5.
What is the truth?

I am almost old enough to be called elderly, vegetarian, but consume eggs and milk and find it difficult to get more than 45 grams of protein/day.

 

[Second Summer]

Thank you for your responses and please accept my apologies - I signed up with an email address that I rarely check. I will try to be a little more with it in future.
That being said, I am still not clear on the matter - still don't know how much protein per day is optimal. I have read that 46 grams is enough for a 150-pound woman, but I have also read that I need over 90 grams per day. However, this page -- Protein: What Is It and How Much Do I Need? -- says that 90 grams is enough for a 250-pound individual. I have read Meeting Protein Needs on a Vegan Diet: The Calorie Connection | The Vegan RD and according to the calculation, there, it should be 150*.45=67.5.
What is the truth?

I am almost old enough to be called elderly, vegetarian, but consume eggs and milk and find it difficult to get more than 45 grams of protein/day.

I had a long reply typed out, but my computer messed it up.

Anyway, I believe Ginny Messina's requirements are based on ideal body weight. So if a person weighs 250 pounds, but have an ideal weight of 150 pounds, then they should use 150 pounds in their calculation of protein requirements.

Protein requirements depend on the amount of muscle mass more than most other factors. More fat tissue means less protein requirements than a person of the same weight with less fat tissue.

 

[Blobbenstein]

my idea weight would be around 80kgs, but I weigh 167kg, but not all of that extra weight is fat. I need more muscle to carry the extra weight, so I think I should use a higher weight than 80kg to base what protein I need.

I don't bother much with protein though, except to take 2gms of lysine in pill form.....most foods, like bread have enough of the other amino acids, I think.

 

[Olga]

All interesting information. I have recalculated my protein requirement based on what would be an ideal weight for my age, using the lower fraction (.4), considering that I am not very active. This amounts to 52 grams/day - quite achievable.

To Indian Summer, I don't think it was your computer that messed up - I think it was a glitch in the forum software or some temporary Internet interruption. I say this because both of your messages appeared in the update email that I received from support@veggieviews.com. If you like I will copy and post your longer message here on the forum. I think it would be helpful for others who have the same questions.

 

[Second Summer]

I need more muscle to carry the extra weight, so I think I should use a higher weight than 80kg to base what protein I need.

That is possible, but if you are aiming to lose weight - both fat and some of the "extra" muscle mass, then maybe going by the ideal body weight is fine? I don't really know.

If you like I will copy and post your longer message here on the forum. I think it would be helpful for others who have the same questions.

Thank you, please do!

 

[Blobbenstein]

That is possible, but if you are aiming to lose weight - both fat and some of the "extra" muscle mass, then maybe going by the ideal body weight is fine? I don't really know.

Overweight people need to lose the fat, not the muscle. Muscle burns of calories anyway, and they would need it to support their bodies, and to do exercise. If they/we lose the fat, the the muscle won't be needed any more, and will reduce. The muscle needs to be maintained with a higher protein intake, I would think.

 

[Second Summer]

Overweight people need to lose the fat, not the muscle. Muscle burns of calories anyway, and they would need it to support their bodies, and to do exercise. If they/we lose the fat, the the muscle won't be needed any more, and will reduce. The muscle needs to be maintained with a higher protein intake, I would think.

Ah yes, I agree that more muscle mass burns more calories. Or so I have read. So maintaining the muscle mass is probably a good idea.

 

[Blobbenstein]

Ah yes, I agree that more muscle mass burns more calories. Or so I have read. So maintaining the muscle mass is probably a good idea.

well yes, but that muscle is also needed to just function normally. Fat doesn't carry itself around.

 

[Olga]

Thank you, please do!

Indian Summer, Today at 10:21 AM

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I don't know how much of the original message remains, as the text in email notifications is sometimes truncated.

Ginny Messina (Vegan RD) says 0.4g to 0.45g protein per pound per day is sufficient. The other site you linked to (the low-carb section of about.com) says 0.37g per pound per day.

Our protein needs are actually not related directly to our body weight, because protein requirements are higher the more muscle mass you have, but not much higher if the same weight is due to fat tissue. So people with more fat tissue have lower protein requirements per unit of body mass than do people with less fat tissue. Obviously, proteins are used for many other purposes than maintaining muscle mass, but I believe muscle mass nevertheless has a significant impact on protein requirements.

So depending on the assumed fat/muscle ratio, recommendations may vary.

I think Messina's recommendations are based on ideal body weight, which means you should use your ideal body weight when calculating your requirements. So a person who weighs 250 pounds but has an ideal body weight of 150

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I now have questions about vitamins, but will post a new question.

 

[flyingsnail]

Overweight people need to lose the fat, not the muscle. Muscle burns of calories anyway, and they would need it to support their bodies, and to do exercise.

While muscle mass does burn more than fat mass, the difference isn't as dramatic as is often implied in pop-culture. For every pound of muscle mass you gain, at rest, you'll burn an extra 5 calories or so day. So gaining 20 pounds of muscle mass, which would take years, would only increase your metabolic rate by 100 calories. What is that...1/3 a cookie?

Anyhow, whenever you lose weight you're going to lose both muscle and fat. You can limit the muscle loss by being active and maintaining a relatively high protein intake.

First off, the original idea with protein combining was that they thought you had to get proteins, or rather, essential amino acids, from two different sources (typically from legumes and from grains) in the same meal. This is now considered to be a misunderstanding as it doesn't have to be in the same meal, instead I think it's over the course of a day.

Usually the last part, "over the course of a day", is forgotten and vegetarians commonly believe they don't need to think about complementary proteins at all. I think its a lot easier to combine proteins on a per meal basis than it is to think about it on a daily basis since doing it on a daily basis requires you create a daily meal plan. Personally I just come up with meals that combine legumes and grains and don't put much thought to it beyond that.

Vegetarian cooking in the west often neglects legumes which I think is strange given they are the foundation of traditional vegetarian diets.