Brian W

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Oh c'mon. Let the man have his meat. And your daughter too. She needs all the good nutrient to grow up. And once she's old enough, she can become vegan if she chooses to do so.
The daughter can get her nutrients without meat but the OP needs to understand that to somebody who has loved meat all their lives, meat is an addiction with a similar holding power to cigarettes. I know, I have been addicted to both and even now I have serious meat cravings. In the past when I tried to be vegetarian, a single fail would put me straight back onto eating meat regularly, in my case because of a polarized mindset. I eventually succeeded reasonably well in becoming vegan by not taking a vegan position but by choosing to explore plant-based foods as much as possible until one day I realized that I had been living with almost no animal products in my diet for nearly a month. I eventually rejected the label vegan beause of the unrealistic expectations many in the vegan community have of those who grew up omnivores - i.e. normal people. We need to accept that being an omnivore doesn't mean being a bad person.
 
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Brian W

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It's a damn hard job to grow a healthy vegan kid. It's better to be safe and let her consume good quality meat or at very least fish. We people are omnivorous by nature. We are made to consume meat. I wouldn't gamble with my kids health to satisfy my own believes.
I agree with your principle but with the help of a vegan-friendly medical practitioner, it can be achieved. Of course that is easy for me to say as I grew up in the UK where then have a fantastic NHS. In most countries you have to pay for such help. If I had kids and I didn't feel certain, I would feed them animal products too to be on the safe side but to the best of my understanding, the OP has been raising a healthy child without meat. I think that is awesome!
 

Brian W

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We people are omnivorous by nature.
The term "people" is quite arbitrary and depends upon where you draw the lines. Once upon a time, neanderthals were not considered "human" but they moved the goalposts when they realized how "civilized" they were. Labels are human creations. One of our labels is "primate" and primates on the whole survive on mostly plants. Some supplement with eggs and small creatures and some are totally herbivore but primarily, they seem to be at least ovo-vegetarian. Then another label we have created is "natural" What do we mean by that? Naturally, creatures evolve and adapt, but when we "humans" do it we call it "artificial." Just something to think about. ;)
 

Brian W

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I'm just wondering what is she going to do if the father decides otherwise. He's as much parent as she is and is allowed to feed meat to his daughter :imp:
You have just highlighted a relationship difficulty that I hadn't thought of - partly because I am in a happy marriage with somebody who didn't give up animal products when I did and it produced no difficulty for us because we simply accepted each other. I hadn't thought of the subject of bringing up children.
 

silva

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Oh c'mon. Let the man have his meat. And your daughter too. She needs all the good nutrient to grow up. And once she's old enough, she can become vegan if she chooses to do so.
This has far more to do with a complete lack of respect. He knew she was vegan and accepted her parameters. This is no different than if one were Kosher only to later have their SO bring in pork and shellfish

How about a vegan raising their child on good plant foods and they can do what they want when they grow up? 🙄
 
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silva

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I'm just wondering what is she going to do if the father decides otherwise. He's as much parent as she is and is allowed to feed meat to his daughter :imp:
You have just highlighted a relationship difficulty that I hadn't thought of - partly because I am in a happy marriage with somebody who didn't give up animal products when I did and it produced no difficulty for us because we simply accepted each other. I hadn't thought of the subject of bringing up children.
He was not the father.
 
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Brian W

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This has far more to do with a complete lack of respect. He knew she was vegan and accepted her parameters. This is no different than if one were Kosher only to later have their SO bring in pork and shellfish

How about a vegan raising their child on good plant foods and they can do what they want when they grow up? 🙄
You just forced me to re-read the OP and I saw that he has no desire to change. He should have mentioned that at the beginning!
 

vegan89

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The daughter can get her nutrients without meat but the OP needs to understand that to somebody who has loved meat all their lives, meat is an addiction with a similar holding power to cigarettes. I know, I have been addicted to both and even now I have serious meat cravings. In the past when I tried to be vegetarian, a single fail would put me straight back onto eating meat regularly, in my case because of a polarized mindset. [...] I eventually rejected the label vegan beause of the unrealistic expectations many in the vegan community have of those who grew up omnivores - i.e. normal people. We need to accept that being an omnivore doesn't mean being a bad person.
Do you realize farmers cut the testicles out of cows and pigs without anesthesia? I have difficulty even imagining how painful that would be.

Bearing that in mind, I have no problem with calling people who fund that kind of cruelty with their food purchases "bad people." They are committing acts of evil every time they hand over money for animal products.

Even if they occasionally do some good things like donate to charity to help the poor, I seriously doubt the average "omnivore" does enough good things to outweigh the enormous evil they committed from spending an entire lifetime of buying animal products that fund this kind of cruelty to billions of animals.
 
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Brian W

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Do you realize farmers cut the testicles out of cows and pigs without anesthesia? I have difficulty even imagining how painful that would be.

Bearing that in mind, I have no problem with calling people who fund that kind of cruelty with their food purchases "bad people." They are committing acts of evil every time they hand over money for animal products.

Even if they occasionally do some good things like donate to charity to help the poor, I seriously doubt the average "omnivore" does enough good things to outweigh the enormous evil they committed from spending an entire lifetime of buying animal products that fund this kind of cruelty to billions of animals.
Whether somebody can be considered evil depends on their intent. I believe that most people would give up animal products if they felt they could do so and sustain the new diet. What farmers do specifically is down to them, not the consumer. The only responsibility the consumer has is for the death of the animal because their diet requires it, but not feeling able to be vegan is a much deeper and more complex issue. We should remember where we came from before judging others!
 
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vegan89

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Whether somebody can be considered evil depends on their intent. I believe that most people would give up animal products if they felt they could do so and sustain the new diet. What farmers do specifically is down to them, not the consumer. The only responsibility the consumer has is for the death of the animal because their diet requires it, but not feeling able to be vegan is a much deeper and more complex issue. We should remember where we came from before judging others!
>"What farmers do specifically is down to them, not the consumer."

No, farmers do what they do because consumer spending habits dictate what they have to do to stay employed. The consumer is most primarily responsible for the animal suffering.

In the case of cutting the testicles out of pigs, the reason farmers do it is because pigs that have not been castrated develop what is called "boar taint" in the meat, which gives the meat an undesirable flavor consumers don't enjoy as much. The farmers who don't castrate pigs apparently have difficulty selling their meat and don't tend to stay in business. Thus, the practice is widespread throughout this industry because of consumer purchasing decisions.

>"The only responsibility the consumer has is for the death of the animal because their diet requires it"

The vast majority of people can be perfectly healthy on a vegan diet. Most people eating a whole food plant-based diet would see their health improve dramatically. They do not "require" meat to be healthy.

>"not being vegan is a much deeper and more complex issue"

Not really. Most consumers make their food purchasing decisions primarily based on taste and price. They want something that will excite their taste buds and save them money. If products like Beyond Meat and Impossible Foods were priced lower than comparable animal products, their sales would increase dramatically as these alternatives take sales from animal meats.

It's a mix of gluttony, greed, overindulgence, and the prioritization of "instant gratification" over the long-term health benefits from a whole food plant-based (vegan) diet. Not to mention the suffering of the animals and the environment..
 
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