Millions of Birds Are Vacuumed to Death Every Year for Our MartinI Olives

Mbeth

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Lou

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But according to Donald Trump, Wind power is bad cause it kills a few hundred thousand birds.

But anyway a well-timed and interesting article. BTW Vice New is really scoring a lot of points with me. Also, this was the first time a link asked me if it was OK to open "News". Could someone on a PC open that link?
 

TofuRobot

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But according to Donald Trump, Wind power is bad cause it kills a few hundred thousand birds.

But anyway a well-timed and interesting article. BTW Vice New is really scoring a lot of points with me. Also, this was the first time a link asked me if it was OK to open "News". Could someone on a PC open that link?
I just opened it. Went straight to the article.

...And OMG... How horrible. I can't get that image of that out of my head now... :sob:
 

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What image?
Really?
"The machinery is perfectly fine if used during the day, as birds are able to see and escape while they are operating… However, during the night they use very strong lights which confuse the birds and lead to their death as they are ‘sucked in’ by the tractor,”
 

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I do wonder about "by-kill" and why it's rarely spoken of in vegan circles. I have seen crop burn-offs of sugar cane, where there is mass exile of snakes, frogs and vermin. Wonder how many are torched to death per every tonne of refined sugar produced (I would tentatively suggest that it may be more than the animals ... bees..harmed in the production of honey)
 

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Really?
"The machinery is perfectly fine if used during the day, as birds are able to see and escape while they are operating… However, during the night they use very strong lights which confuse the birds and lead to their death as they are ‘sucked in’ by the tractor,”

Oh, I thought there was an actual picture.

And Trump said something like "have you ever wanted to see a bird cemetery?"

And we all responded, "No, I never have wanted to see a bird cemetery! (you sick f***)"
 
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Lou

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I do wonder about "by-kill" and why it's rarely spoken of in vegan circles. I have seen crop burn-offs of sugar cane, where there is mass exile of snakes, frogs and vermin. Wonder how many are torched to death per every tonne of refined sugar produced (I would tentatively suggest that it may be more than the animals ... bees..harmed in the production of honey)

Well, we talk about bees all the time. Most vegans don't consider honey vegan.

"By-kill" * is often brought up by carnists who are either trying to make out vegans to be hypocritical or veganism to be futile. I think most vegans are aware of the issue and chalk it up to just being inevitable or inadvertent.

There have been at least a couple of studies on it within the last 20 years. I remember one was done in England. I can't remember the second. I believe the newest one radio-tagged mice in a field that was about to be either harvested or cultivated. as one would have expected the mice are more than capable of running away. the researchers couldn't radio tag baby mice and were unsure about their survival. But within days it became a moot point. With the reduction of cover, the mice became easy prey for hawks and owls and the radio-tagged ones were soon almost all gone.

Now that I think about it I may want to look up those studies. It would be interesting what conclusion the researchers made. I can think of several.

* I hadn't seen the word by-kill used in this context. It is often used in the fisheries industry but by-catch is more common. And now that I think about it what word is more commonly used in agriculture?
 
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Jai

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I've never heard the word 'by-kill' before I wrote it ! But yes, it was used in the spirit of 'by-catch'.

It's not a 'carnist' arguememt from me, that's for sure, but one of finding a truth that I can above by. There is NO QUESTION that sugar cane farming kills many animals. Whether pound-for-pound that'smore or less than honey production, I do not know. I have learned long ago not to simply accept claims made, without drawing from some evidence. For me, I'm still eating honey, and right now I'm OK with that.
 

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@Jai
Lately, I have been seeing authors combining the ethics of “sufficientarianism” with veganism. Basically, its the idea that almost everything we eat involves some kind of animal suffering – but we can do our best to minimize it.

Honey, cane sugar, almonds, avocados, and olives are pretty easy for me to avoid so I will.

But if I felt more strongly about including those things in my diet - I would. Come to think of it, the definition of veganism already takes this into account when it states "practical and possible". P&P is subjective. What is practical or possible for a millionaire is not the same as for a person on a limited budget.

BTW, what is your avatar? I was thinking it was either a carnivorous plant or a microscopic view of a fungus.




 
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Jai

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BTW, what is your avatar? I was thinking it was either a carnivorous plant or a microscopic view of a fungus.
That would be Pleurotus citrinopileatus. There was a time when I was deep into the study of mycology, and cultivation of fungi all the way from tissue cultures on a petri dish culture, right through to fruiting. The 'Golden Oyster' was my favourite to grow.

As for a 'least harm possible' approach... If the production of one kilo of sugar kills 10 animals (insects, snakes, mice, worms), then every year each American kills 700 innocent beings in the name of sweetness

But of the average American stops eating beef, then how many cows does he save in a year ? The answer is None !

Allow me to elaborate. Americans eat 50kg of beef per year. And the typical yield of beef from a typical cow is 300kg.

It would take a full 6 years of beef abstinence for one to say they have 'saved' the life of a single bovine.

So perhaps the true gains to end animal slaughter would be not to tell your neighbour to give up his steak, but to give up his sugar.

I really would like to see some advocacy in support of insects.
 

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But of the average American stops eating beef, then how many cows does he save in a year ? The answer is None !


You are forgetting about all of the field deaths it takes to FEED that cow. So yeah, not a single cow died, but a LOT more insects and rodents died for that cow flesh. Also, i'm not vegan to stop death per se, but to minimize suffering. As such even that 1/8th a cow that has to suffer is a major issue to me. Anyways, thought I should point that out, as it seemed a false dichotomy (saying sugar kills a lot of mice etc, and then switching it to "cows" while ignoring the field deaths.)