Looking toward veganism

Sourmilk

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Hi guys and gals and non-binarys,
Looking at veganism as a lifestyle, but I have some questions to try and realise the scope of veganism, and how difficult it might be.
Thanks in advance to any replies!

1. If a farmer uses fertilisers that contain animal products, can the vegetables grown still be considered vegan?
2. Can I use compost to fertilise plants if worms have defecated in the compost?
3. Can I still perform fellatio on my boyfriend? Sorry for the TMI, but genuinely curious (or at least he is, i'd love an excuse to stop).
4. If I taste a meat product but don't eat it, like if i just lick it, is that still okay?
5. How can you keep a balanced diet? Like get enough protein, iron etc.

Thanks again guys :)
 

nobody

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Looking at veganism as a lifestyle,



What is your motivation for looking at veganism as a lifestyle? If your motivation is to help animals, stop eating them first. That is the most important thing. You have indicated on the drop down that you are flexitarian, so maybe you don't eat much animal products. That's a good start but going fully dietary vegan/strict vegetarian would probably be the next step for you if your goal is to help animals.

If your goal is to see the Vegan Society's current definition of veganism through to each logical conclusion, you have your work cut out for you. Good luck. I'm a strict vegetarian/Watson vegan myself, as opposed to what you are talking about, which I would call "Cross veganism" after Leslie Cross. You can read all about it right here:

 
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Lou

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Hi Sourmilk. Welcome aboard.

I could give you the answers but.... give a guy a fish and all. *

So according to the Vegan Society here is the definition of Veganism.

Veganism is a way of living which seeks to exclude, as far as is possible and practicable, all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals for food, clothing or any other purpose.

I think all your questions can be answered by just thinking about how they relate to the definition. Some questions may be answered differently by different vegans. I think it is better to not have a set of rules but a philosophy or concept that can guide and inform all your decisions. It promotes thinking or awareness as opposed to blindly following a rule book.

Hint: "Seeks" and "practicable" should get special emphasis.

* We need a vegan version of that idiom. Give a man a vegetable / teach him how to garden?
 

Lou

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Ooops. question 5 deserves a more detailed answer.

Here is something to read.


And I might add that some of your questions triggered my Troll Radar. You might be legit. but its going to take me a few more interactions to decide. So for now it's short and sweet.
 

Forest Nymph

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1. If a farmer uses fertilisers that contain animal products, can the vegetables grown still be considered vegan?

I think this is a point to be considered only by the very strictest vegans. There is veganic produce. However, the vegan police aren't going to come and get you because blood or bone was used in fertilizer of produce that you purchased. In nature, dead bodies and feces are the natural fertilizer. It's just that in nature animals aren't systematically enslaved and slaughtered for their flesh by humans. Manure, specifically, doesn't seem to have any ethical properties as far as I can tell. Using poop as fertilizer isn't an indication of exploitation or murder, unless you're some kind of fundamentalist, because you could use poop from animals in a sanctuary to grow vegetables. They're going to poop anyway.

2. Can I use compost to fertilise plants if worms have defecated in the compost?

Yes. If you don't, the environmental police will come to get you.

3. Can I still perform fellatio on my boyfriend? Sorry for the TMI, but genuinely curious (or at least he is, i'd love an excuse to stop).

If you would love an excuse to stop fellatio, then you should stop. In any relationship you shouldn't have to perform any sexual act you aren't comfortable with. This is called consent culture. The fact that this bothers you so much that you would express this on a public forum indicates to me that your partner might not be respecting your personal sexual boundaries. You don't "owe" him any particular sex act (and vice versa). This is why marital rape is a thing now. Not saying that he's raping you, let me just clarify that, but the idea that it's your "duty" to perform oral or anal or bondage or anything you feel bad or uncomfortable doing is wrong. Even if it just means you perform fellatio without swallowing, or even if you don't do it at all.

That being said, any consensual sex act is vegan, because consent is present.

4. If I taste a meat product but don't eat it, like if i just lick it, is that still okay?

I don't even understand this question, I mean why would you do that, but yes it's still wrong because it involves animal exploitation, which is why vegans also don't wear fur, leather, or cosmetics tested on animals. You don't have to eat something for it to be exploitation.

5. How can you keep a balanced diet? Like get enough protein, iron etc.

Absolutely, yes! Protein is super easy to get from eating a wide variety of foods and getting enough calories. There's very little risk of getting a protein deficiency unless you literally starve yourself. If you crave a high protein diet for any reason, you can stock up on tofu, beans, nuts, nut butters, seeds, pulses, vegan milks, and veggie meats if that makes you feel "satisfied." You DO NOT have to engage in any particular diet to be vegan. You can do High Carb Low Fat, you can do oil-free WFPB, you can do high protein, you can do a mix of whole foods and junk foods...just make sure to eat enough calories, a wide variety of foods, and not to get ALL of your calories from junk foods or processed foods. Even a "junk food" vegan needs some fresh fruit and veggies, and some beans once and awhile. Make sure you take B12. Taking a multi-vitamin or a DHA supplement is a personal choice. If you know you have a hard time getting a variety of foods, or eat a lot of junk food, or just don't know how to eat yet as a vegan, you might want to get a multi-vitamin, or give it to kids if you have any. You can get Omega 3s from walnuts, flax seeds, and hemp, or by occasionally taking an algal oil supplement.
 

QualityGains

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Hi Sourmilk. Welcome aboard.

I could give you the answers but.... give a guy a fish and all. *

So according to the Vegan Society here is the definition of Veganism.

Veganism is a way of living which seeks to exclude, as far as is possible and practicable, all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals for food, clothing or any other purpose.

I think all your questions can be answered by just thinking about how they relate to the definition. Some questions may be answered differently by different vegans. I think it is better to not have a set of rules but a philosophy or concept that can guide and inform all your decisions. It promotes thinking or awareness as opposed to blindly following a rule book.

Hint: "Seeks" and "practicable" should get special emphasis.

* We need a vegan version of that idiom. Give a man a vegetable / teach him how to garden?
Was about to post the definition in here. Thanks Lou.

My short answer to your questions:

1. If a farmer uses fertilisers that contain animal products, can the vegetables grown still be considered vegan?
-> Generally yes, it's hard to control for those variables.
2. Can I use compost to fertilise plants if worms have defecated in the compost?
-> Yes.
3. Can I still perform fellatio on my boyfriend? Sorry for the TMI, but genuinely curious (or at least he is, i'd love an excuse to stop).
-> Yes. However if you're searching for an excuse to stop this is a whole different issue.
4. If I taste a meat product but don't eat it, like if i just lick it, is that still okay?
-> No. Generally licking foods can also be considered weird. Go for a plant-based meat alternative.
5. How can you keep a balanced diet? Like get enough protein, iron etc.
Use Cronometer.com to be especially sure. :)
 

nobody

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3. Can I still perform fellatio on my boyfriend? Sorry for the TMI, but genuinely curious (or at least he is, i'd love an excuse to stop).
The use or consumption of things derived from the human animal is a-vegan/irrelevant to veganism, which would include wigs made from human hair, **removed**, and human flesh in the case of cannibalism.
 
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nobody

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4. If I taste a meat product but don't eat it, like if i just lick it, is that still okay?
This one would violate my own code of strict vegetarianism/Watson veganism. However, if I'm at Burger King or some omnivore's who is cooking meat outside on the grill, I am alright with having my Impossible Burger cooked on the same grill as the real meat. There is more of an intention to do something when you lick it vs. grill contamination which I see as incidental and you don't get nearly as much animal grease in your mouth as you would if you were to lick the meat.
 

Sax

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And I might add that some of your questions triggered my Troll Radar.
Yep. I'll give @Sourmilk the benefit of doubt but their concerns seem based on classic reductio ad absurdum.

As for #3...it is your responsibility to communicate your likes, dislikes and boundaries. Sometimes people do things for their partners that they aren't particularly into, but if your clearly communicated boundaries aren't being respected that's a major red flag and grounds for an ultimatum or straight up dumping him.
 

Forest Nymph

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Yep. I'll give @Sourmilk the benefit of doubt but their concerns seem based on classic reductio ad absurdum.

As for #3...it is your responsibility to communicate your likes, dislikes and boundaries. Sometimes people do things for their partners that they aren't particularly into, but if your clearly communicated boundaries aren't being respected that's a major red flag and grounds for an ultimatum or straight up dumping him.
I assumed they were just very young, like a teenager. I actually used to know a woman who is Jewish who would chew pig flesh and spit it out since she was convinced the actual digestion was what wasn't kosher. And she was an older lady. Some people just aren't logical at all.
 

Frosty20

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I eat 30 different fruits, vegetables, legumes, grains, seeds, and nuts per week and that covers all my nutrition plus I take a B12 once or twice a week to be sure but I really don't need it according to my blood tests for many years now. If you want to eat some animal protein because you're scared at first I would get some cricket bars or canned sardines once or twice a week. Once you realize it doesn't make any difference you're good to go but if you feel vegan is making you sick go back to the cricket bars or sardines. I did this at first and I'm healthy as heck hardly ever getting sick unlike pre vegan.
 
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Andy_T

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The use or consumption of things derived from the human animal is a-vegan/irrelevant to veganism, which would include wigs made from human hair, and human flesh in the case of cannibalism.
Erm, no, it is vegan if the human animal consents to you consuming it, e.g. a mother nursing her baby.
There are also people donating their hair to make wigs, e.g. for people undergoing chemotherapy.
 

nobody

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Erm, no, it is vegan if the human animal consents to you consuming it, e.g. a mother nursing her baby.
There are also people donating their hair to make wigs, e.g. for people undergoing chemotherapy.
I was using the word a-vegan, in the sense of asexual, or asymmetrical, but on second thought, the "a" prefix actually means "not", so that would give avegan the same meaning as not vegan, and that's not what I meant.

What I'm saying is use of humans for any purpose falls out of the scope or purvue of veganism, whether the human that is being used gives permission or not. So buying fair trade clothes or boycotting anything on human rights grounds is outside of the scope of veganism and animal rights.

So I don't see 3 as having anything to do with veganism, because there has to be a non-human animal involved for it to have something to do with veganism. Veganism is related to animal rights and humanitarianism is related to human rights.

For some people veganism may touch on every area of life, such as political affiliation and ethics in general, or whatever. But I don't think it's helpful to do that.

In conclusion, what I was saying is that fellatio (or using human hair in a hairpiece for example), is not vegan, nor is it nonvegan, it's just doesn't apply to a discussion of veganism.
 
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