Jesus is the Problem

[JacobEdward]

most people will hear a vegans arguments, give some neutral agreement thing in the moment and then later that night think what does it matter, jesus isn't vegan...

Most of the animals are being killed by christians (western society vs eastern society), most people will hear a vegans arguments, give some neutral agreement thing in the moment and then later that night think what does it matter, jesus isn't vegan... That's a real problem that needs to be solved if we're going to overthrow the paradigm... I am not a christian, I do not believe jesus is the messiah liberator ancient jews promised would one day come (do you even know what you want liberation from?)... there's so much that I could say on all of that, seems pretty clear that if you were GOD you would have known about (and made it a point for it to be prominently noted in your texts) flywheels or floatwheels if you're the carpenter type and yet I've never heard anything like that from Jesus even though Archimedes was like 300 years before... imagine there had been the beginning focus on industrial revolution a couple thousand years early...

 

[David3]

In 19th-century Europe and the United States, the first western vegetarian societies were founded by Christian ministers:

History of Vegetarianism - The Bible Christian Church (1809-1930)

ivu.org

In the year 1905, Seventh Day Adventist Christians founded the Loma Linda brand of vegetarian and vegan foods: La Loma Foods - Wikipedia. This brand still exists today: Loma Linda - Atlantic Natural Foods

Written down in the year 1850, here is the secretary's account of the first meeting of the American Vegetarian Society: American Vegetarian Convention 1850. Note that the AVS's president was the Reverend William Metcalfe.


Read the account of that year 1850 vegetarian meeting - in many ways, those 19th century vegetarians sound like our present-day community:

"comparative anatomy, human physiology, and chemical analysis of different animal and farinaceous substances, unitedly proclaim the position, that not only the human race may, but should, subsist upon the productions of the vegetable kingdom.

"the approbation of man's unsophisticated and unbiased powers of taste, sight, and smell, are involuntarily given to fruits, farinacea, and vegetable substances, in preference to the mangled carcasses of butchered animals."

"the evidence of Linnaeus, Sir Richard Phillips, Franklin, Sir Isaac Newton, John Wesley, Swedenborg, Howard, Jefferson, Rouseau, Akenside, Pope, Shelley, Sir John Sinclair, Arbuthnot, and a host of others, living as well as ancient observers of nature, testify to the truth of vegetarianism."

"cruelty, in any form, for the mere purpose of procuring unnecessary food, or to gratify depraved appetites, is obnoxious to the pure human soul, and repugnant to the noblest attributes of our being."
.

 

[JacobEdward]

In 19th-century Europe and the United States, the first western vegetarian societies were founded by Christian ministers:

History of Vegetarianism - The Bible Christian Church (1809-1930)

ivu.org

That is truly hilarious... 1800 years later

 

[JacobEdward]

In the year 1905, Seventh Day Adventist Christians founded the Loma Linda brand of vegetarian and vegan foods: La Loma Foods - Wikipedia. This brand still exists today: Loma Linda - Atlantic Natural Foods

Wasn't Pythagoras vegan?

Hey you never responded to my specific point

Most of the animals are being killed by christians (western society vs eastern society), most people will hear a vegans arguments, give some neutral agreement thing in the moment and then later that night think what does it matter, jesus isn't vegan... That's a real problem that needs to be solved if we're going to overthrow the paradigm...

 

[David3]

That is truly hilarious... 1800 years later

I’d say that those 19th century Christian vegetarians did a lot of good work. Modern Christian vegetarians, too. Don’t see what’s hilarious.

Modern Christian vegetarians are working to change the perception that Jesus was carnivorous. If you share this goal, you might consider joining a Christian veg group.

 

[JacobEdward]

I’d say that those 19th century Christian vegetarians did a lot of good work. Modern Christian vegetarians, too. Don’t see what’s hilarious.

those people are awesome for sure, I was saying it was hilarious to suggest them being vegan had anything to do with that guy 2000 years ago

 

[JacobEdward]

I wish I could have a thing that made the kill counter position:absolute so it would lay on top of whatever is scrolled... I feel like we should at least have to see the numbers counting away when we're in a thread with that as the main post...

 

[Second Summer]

Most of the animals are being killed by christians (western society vs eastern society)

I'm unsure if I believe that. As of 2015 there were 2.4 billion adherents out of a worldwide population of about 7.5 billion people (according to Wikipedia). Sure, westerners eat more meat per person than others, but not all westerners are Christians.

Anyway, is the main point in the OP that Christians would have been more likely to be vegan if they weren't Christians? To verify that claim we'd have to compare meat consumption amongst Christians for every country with the meat consumption amongst others in the same country. I don't think it's any higher, but I could be wrong.

I think the obstacle in Christianity against veganism isn't Jesus, but the type/denomination of Christianity. Here in Europe there are many relatively tolerant denominations where it would be considered mainstream for a minister in a sermon to talk about things like the "good stewardship" concept, and even reducing meat consumption as part of that. In the US I get the impression there are denominations where they believe Jesus is coming back any day now, so it doesn't really matter how much we trash the planet in the meantime because the only thing that matters is believing every word of the Bible just the way it's written.

 

[JacobEdward]

I think the obstacle in Christianity against veganism isn't Jesus, but the type/denomination of Christianity.

Is there a type of christiantiy that says jesus is vegan?

most people will hear a vegans arguments, give some neutral agreement thing in the moment and then later that night think what does it matter, jesus isn't vegan...

you haven't addressed my argument

 

[Second Summer]

Is there are type of christiantiy that says jesus is vegan?

I don't think so, but I have read some claims that he was vegan or vegetarian.

you haven't addressed my argument

Ah, was that the main argument? Well, Jesus also didn't drive a car, so therefore Christians can't drive cars. (Live like the Amish!) He didn't travel by plane, so Christians can't fly. Jesus didn't own a gun, so guns are out. Jesus didn't use plastics, so that's out, too. However, he did turn water into wine and he walked on water, so that is something all Christians should attempt ....!?

Also, I don't think much is really known about Jesus' diet, so I don't think modern Christians can use him as a role model in this particular area.

 

[JacobEdward]

Ah, was that the main argument? Well, Jesus also didn't drive a car, so therefore Christians can't drive cars. (Live like the Amish!) He didn't travel by plane, so Christians can't fly. Jesus didn't own a gun, so guns are out. Jesus didn't use plastics, so that's out, too. However, he did turn water into wine and he walked on water, so that is something all Christians should attempt ....!?

Also, I don't think much is really known about Jesus' diet, so I don't think modern Christians can use him as a role model in this particular area.

None of those other things are moral tragedy types of things except maybe the guns (which could legitimately be a conversation right?)... you're saying this is a thing he would shrug his shoulders at if he cared if you weren't vegan just because not much is known... the fact that its not known, that he didn't make it a point to mention it being important is the point... people will figure if he thought it were important he would have said it was something noteworthy, he didn't or he was surrounded by people who never thought it was serious or worthy of blablabla...

 

[David3]

There are some small Christian denominations that teach that Jesus was vegetarian/vegan. "The Order of the Cross" is one such church: The Order Of The Cross, a Vegan/Vegetarian and Pacifist Fellowship following a Spiritual path of Mysticism with a reinterpretation of Christianity, the Jesus and the Christ Life and Reincarnation However, I'm not advocating this church, or any other church.

 

[David3]

As a 1st century, working-class Israelite, it's likely that Jesus ate a strongly plant-based diet, with meat eaten only occasionally: Ancient Israelite cuisine - Wikipedia

 

[JacobEdward]

As a 1st century, working-class Israelite, it's likely that Jesus ate a strongly plant-based diet, with meat eaten only occasionally: Ancient Israelite cuisine - Wikipedia

The point is he never said it was a moral thing
So the order of the cross would be saying its this deception where 2 billion christians have all been led astray in the most horrible of ways possible?

 

[David3]

The point is he never said it was a moral thing
So the order of the cross would be saying its this deception where 2 billion christians have all been led astray in the most horrible of ways possible?

I would suggest that you contact them to confirm their position.

 

[JacobEdward]

I would that you contact them to confirm their position.

we should invite them to the forum

 

[Deleted member 3018]

Veganism isn't something that comes from outside of yourself. You can blame celebrities or even Jesus for your own short-comings with veganism, but in that case what has been forgotten is that we were given free will. You can use other people as a mirror, but only you can decide what in them to focus on. When one arrives at the point in their life that they can no longer support the cruelty of animal agriculture, it comes purely from within and as the journey has began it cannot be halted completely by some flimsy excuse.
Excuses are risen from within as well. Where those truly stem from, whether it be a concern about health or emotion, or ego, would be wise to try to recognize and deal with instead of living in denial.
Blaming other people and circumstances never works in the long run. One should try their best to find the strength to take responsibility for their own actions. Even if you believe that Jesus died for your sins, I personally don't see that as an excuse to keep doing what you clearly know is wrong, instead it would be much more fruitful to have compassion towards yourself, repent, find mercy and do better in this moment and hopefully from this point forward.

 

[Brian W]

Most of the animals are being killed by christians (western society vs eastern society),

When you can prove to me that most westerners are followers of Jesus, I will hang up my faith.

 

[JacobEdward]

When you can prove to me that most westerners are followers of Jesus, I will hang up my faith.

lol idk these people, hundreds of millions... it seems like most of the media outlets say the same thing and most of the western countries have these torture symbols outside of church's in nearly every neighborhood... they claim 2 billion are christian, 1 billion of those are catholic, it all becomes infinite people mode for me after a thousand or something right? the point is there are A LOT of people who will do what I am suggesting they do... and its not necessarily because of what StrangeOtter was saying about excuses, the narrative of reality being that that guy is GOD would imply it just wouldn't matter what happens to animals... surely you believe he said there was nothing wrong with eating fish right?

Why do you believe he is the promised Messiah?

 

[David3]

Why do you believe he is the promised Messiah?

.
Let's not go there. This forum is not for criticizing people's personal faith.

If this topic continues, it's my experience that the thread will be closed.
.