It's Christmas

[Thundergleep]

Hello, I'm new here. *waves awkwardly*

Backstory: I've been plant based for over 5 years now. I was diagnosed with multiple sclerosis and discovered nutritionfacts.org in my search to avoid ending up in a wheelchair. My fiance was already vegetarian, so after a year or so of slow transitioning, we were finally 99% Vegan.

The problem is that all of that was for selfish reasons. My fiance, my sister, my mom, my co-workers -- they could all see how healthy I was and how much a plant based diet was helping me. Raising my son vegan was no family argument, because they all could see that a plant based diet was healthy for everyone.

But this Christmas is different. I started following Earthling Ed and watching ethical videos. I haven't done any of that before because I was so close to vegan I didn't think I had to, but for whatever reason I did. And now my perception has changed.

Now I'm looking at the cheddar popcorn my mom put under the tree, and my sister is arguing that I should've just bought "regular" sour cream since I couldn't get the vegan stuff. I know my family is supportive of my health journey, but yet I feel so alone right now in my care for the animals, and my hope for worldwide change.

I could never get my sister, especially, to watch Earthlings. She refuses to look at anything that makes her feel like she's supposed to "do something," whether it's politics or environmental or whatever. It's the opposite of how I feel. I want to help make the world a better place, even if that means facing my failures.

I'm not really asking for help or anything. It's just Christmas morning and I was feeling alone in my journey. I know I'm lucky they all try as hard as they do. I just needed to rant I suppose.

Much love and respect to all the vegans this Christmas. You're not alone. ❤

-Alice

 

[KLS52]

Hi Alice...welcome and Merry Christmas!

 

[Thundergleep]

Thank you!

 

[shyvas]

Hola &

 

[silva]

Welcome and wishing you a wonderful holiday season!
I'm just so happy for all the wonderful research on plant based diets helping people! When it really sinks in that plant foods are better foods all around it really highlights how awful it is that animals are treated like commodities.

I rarely shop the larger stores, but was in Giant Eagle the other day and so surprised how many vegetarian foods snuck in the freezer section! A shame of course that the plant based meant the noodles instead of the cheese sauces , but still, a big change!

 

[Thundergleep]

Welcome and wishing you a wonderful holiday season!
I'm just so happy for all the wonderful research on plant based diets helping people! When it really sinks in that plant foods are better foods all around it really highlights how awful it is that animals are treated like commodities.

I rarely shop the larger stores, but was in Giant Eagle the other day and so surprised how many vegetarian foods snuck in the freezer section! A shame of course that the plant based meant the noodles instead of the cheese sauces , but still, a big change!

It's amazing to see the changes in the grocery stores. It gives my so much hope for the future.

 

[KLS52]

Love your avatar!

 

[Chryssie]

Welcome and Merry Christmas!

 

[PTree15]

Hi, Thundergleep, and welcome! And Merry Christmas!

 

[Emma JC]

hello @Thundergleep and welcome to the forum

Congrats on your awakening and care for yourself, the animals and the planet!

I love Earthling Ed, he has such a wonderful personality and ability to speak truth.

Maybe suggest your sister watch What the Health as it has an emphasis on health and yet incorporates the other aspects of veganism.

Emma JC
Find your vegan soulmate or just a friend. www.spiritualmatchmaking.com

 

[Thundergleep]

hello @Thundergleep and welcome to the forum

Congrats on your awakening and care for yourself, the animals and the planet!

I love Earthling Ed, he has such a wonderful personality and ability to speak truth.

Maybe suggest your sister watch What the Health as it has an emphasis on health and yet incorporates the other aspects of veganism.

Emma JC
Find your vegan soulmate or just a friend. www.spiritualmatchmaking.com

I haven't watched What the Health in a while, but I remember being a little disappointed in its lack of sources. Same for Conspiracy. It's not that the information is incorrect, but if you just say "eating processed meat is like smoking cigarettes" it's a very bold clam without showing some science. That's why I love NutritionFacts.org, it's really irrefutable. But I should watch WTH again.

My sister just says (and she's not wrong), that people have been eating meat and dairy for thousands of years (in lesser quantities, of course) and have lived long healthy lives. Therefore excluding all animal products isn't necessary, just drastically reducing them.

My sister drinks cows milk, and she would eat eggs if she didn't live with me. She eats meat when she goes out with friends occasionally (pre pandemic).

From a health prospective, my sister lives off of cookies and coffee. She doesn't care about health enough to change more. She's content with where she's at. That's why I was wishing I could show her the horror footage, because I think ethics are necessary to make a 100% commitment.

But again, if the world was 90% vegan it would technically be better than 5% of people being die hard vegans. I just try to remind myself that it doesn't matter if people are perfect, it just matters that the demand for animal products keeps going down.

 

[Ahimsa]

Hello, I'm new here. *waves awkwardly*

Backstory: I've been plant based for over 5 years now. I was diagnosed with multiple sclerosis and discovered nutritionfacts.org in my search to avoid ending up in a wheelchair. My fiance was already vegetarian, so after a year or so of slow transitioning, we were finally 99% Vegan.

The problem is that all of that was for selfish reasons. My fiance, my sister, my mom, my co-workers -- they could all see how healthy I was and how much a plant based diet was helping me. Raising my son vegan was no family argument, because they all could see that a plant based diet was healthy for everyone.

But this Christmas is different. I started following Earthling Ed and watching ethical videos. I haven't done any of that before because I was so close to vegan I didn't think I had to, but for whatever reason I did. And now my perception has changed.

Now I'm looking at the cheddar popcorn my mom put under the tree, and my sister is arguing that I should've just bought "regular" sour cream since I couldn't get the vegan stuff. I know my family is supportive of my health journey, but yet I feel so alone right now in my care for the animals, and my hope for worldwide change.

I could never get my sister, especially, to watch Earthlings. She refuses to look at anything that makes her feel like she's supposed to "do something," whether it's politics or environmental or whatever. It's the opposite of how I feel. I want to help make the world a better place, even if that means facing my failures.

I'm not really asking for help or anything. It's just Christmas morning and I was feeling alone in my journey. I know I'm lucky they all try as hard as they do. I just needed to rant I suppose.

Much love and respect to all the vegans this Christmas. You're not alone. ❤

-Alice

Christmas is an emotive and rather unnatural time. Things will seem a little more in perspective when the so called "festive period" is over. Nevertheless, it's quite common for vegans to feel alone in the world, even though they're not really. Make the effort to reach out to like minded people and don't focus too much on trying to change others, especially with documentaries like "Earthlings" there are much more subtler and effective ways to influence others. Are you on any of the vegan Facebook groups, or a member of any other vegan sites apart from this one. What's it like meeting like minded people in your community?

 

[Thundergleep]

Christmas is an emotive and rather unnatural time. Things will seem a little more in perspective when the so called "festive period" is over. Nevertheless, it's quite common for vegans to feel alone in the world, even though they're not really. Make the effort to reach out to like minded people and don't focus too much on trying to change others, especially with documentaries like "Earthlings" there are much more subtler and effective ways to influence others. Are you on any of the vegan Facebook groups, or a member of any other vegan sites apart from this one. What's it like meeting like minded people in your community?

This is the first vegan group I've joined, but I think it's helped a lot already reading posts here! My community has always just been YouTube videos. It's not a two way street, but watching other vegans helps keep me motivated.

 

[Lou]

I haven't watched What the Health in a while, but I remember being a little disappointed in its lack of sources. Same for Conspiracy.

Conspiracy does reference all of its claims.

COWSPIRACY: The Sustainability Secret

I have read and seen some articles and videos that (attempt to) debunk Cowspiracy. and maybe some of their concerns are valid. but all in all the facts are good.
What the Health also lists its sources

Facts — WHAT THE HEALTH

It's not that the information is incorrect, but if you just say "eating processed meat is like smoking cigarettes" it's a very bold clam without showing some science. That's why I love NutritionFacts.org, it's really irrefutable. But I should watch WTH again.

"'eating processed meat is like smoking cigarettes" is a very bold clam "(sic)

But the statement is based on studies and research. Oh, it would be better if you placed some qualifiers on that statement. but I think most of the time that statement is made - it does include the necessary qualifiers. For instance, processed meat is classified as a Class 1 carcinogen - the same as cigarettes.

Red meat, processed meat and cancer | Cancer Council NSW

My sister just says (and she's not wrong), that people have been eating meat and dairy for thousands of years (in lesser quantities, of course) and have lived long healthy lives. Therefore excluding all animal products isn't necessary, just drastically reducing them.

"in lesser quantities" is an important and overlooked fact. Not sure where to look this up and it varies tremendously by what kind of meat, dairy consumption, and how far you want to go back. And of course, it is difficult to go back "thousands of years". but it's not much of a stretch to claim that the average American in 2020 eats several times more meat and dairy than almost anyone alive thousands of years ago.

We also have studies like the Okinawa study, the Adventist study, and the China Study that show that many diseases correlate with increased consumption of meat.

"drastically reducing them" is also the key term here. According to WCRFI, "

• If you eat red meat, limit consumption to no more than about three portions per week. Three portions is equivalent to about 350–500g (about 12–18oz) cooked weight. Consume very little, if any, processed meat.

 

[Ahimsa]

This is the first vegan group I've joined, but I think it's helped a lot already reading posts here! My community has always just been YouTube videos. It's not a two way street, but watching other vegans helps keep me motivated.

I'm not a fan of Facebook, for various reasons, but I find this group too quiet. Anyway, I collect books, films and other literature on veganism and animal rights. I study the philosophy of the subject and write and give talks, when we could give talks that is!

 

[Thundergleep]

"in lesser quantities" is an important and overlooked fact. Not sure where to look this up and it varies tremendously by what kind of meat, dairy consumption, and how far you want to go back. And of course, it is difficult to go back "thousands of years". but it's not much of a stretch to claim that the average American in 2020 eats several times more meat and dairy than almost anyone alive thousands of years ago.

Thanks for the links to their sources, that helps a lot! I'll look into it.

I remember one scene that really bothered me was the argument with the diabetes expert. I felt like they were relying on his flustered over reaction to prove that he didn't want to talk about the "real cure" for diabetes. But what he says is "any diet will help, which is not technically incorrect. But on NutritionFacts.org the science is so well explained in his videos regarding diabetes and meat consumption specifically, not just weight.

And as far as my sister goes, at the moment she really only drinks cows milk. And even pre pandemic she only ate meat once or twice a month. So from a health prospective she has "drastically reduced" her animal products. I suppose the problem isn't so much that I need her to stop drinking milk ( it would be nice tho), but more that I need her to respect my decision to avoid trace amounts (in cakes and processed foods), which I haven't done until now. It seemed to really **** her off that I think there's anything wrong with eating a cookie with egg in it.

 

[Lou]

Thanks for the links to their sources, that helps a lot! I'll look into it.

I remember one scene that really bothered me was the argument with the diabetes expert. I felt like they were relying on his flustered over reaction to prove that he didn't want to talk about the "real cure" for diabetes. But what he says is "any diet will help, which is not technically incorrect. But on NutritionFacts.org the science is so well explained in his videos regarding diabetes and meat consumption specifically, not just weight.

And as far as my sister goes, at the moment she really only drinks cows milk. And even pre pandemic she only ate meat once or twice a month. So from a health prospective she has "drastically reduced" her animal products. I suppose the problem isn't so much that I need her to stop drinking milk ( it would be nice tho), but more that I need her to respect my decision to avoid trace amounts (in cakes and processed foods), which I haven't done until now. It seemed to really **** her off that I think there's anything wrong with eating a cookie with egg in it.

It's so easy to stop drinking cow's milk. It was the first thing I did. The supermarket is full of alternatives.

As far as trace amounts go - like the small amounts in baked goods - I wouldn't worry about it.
Health-wise and ethics -wise it isn't that important. I avoid trace amounts too, but I'm not sure i can make a good argument against it. Maybe the best argument is that avoiding that stuff might create a demand for healthier and ethically better alternatives.

 

[Thundergleep]

It's so easy to stop drinking cow's milk. It was the first thing I did. The supermarket is full of alternatives.

As far as trace amounts go - like the small amounts in baked goods - I wouldn't worry about it.
Health-wise and ethics -wise it isn't that important. I avoid trace amounts too, but I'm not sure i can make a good argument against it. Maybe the best argument is that avoiding that stuff might create a demand for healthier and ethically better alternatives.

I agree. It's not the most important thing to focus on trace amounts. I don't really care if she eats cookies with egg, I just want her to understand that I don't want to. My sister did drink soy milk for a couple years, but then she switched back to cows milk. She just says it tastes better then any plant milk she's tried. She's easily grossed out by things too, so I thought the gross out factor for cows milk would be an easy sell! But it didn't work.

 

[Ahimsa]

I agree. It's not the most important thing to focus on trace amounts. I don't really care if she eats cookies with egg, I just want her to understand that I don't want to. My sister did drink soy milk for a couple years, but then she switched back to cows milk. She just says it tastes better then any plant milk she's tried. She's easily grossed out by things too, so I thought the gross out factor for cows milk would be an easy sell! But it didn't work.

What about the environmental impact of drinking milk? If your sister reads books try to get her to read: "Comfortably Unaware" by Dr Robert Oppenheimer.

 

[Thundergleep]

What about the environmental impact of drinking milk? If your sister reads books try to get her to read: "Comfortably Unaware" by Dr Robert Oppenheimer.

I haven't read that, I'll look into it!