Is spirituality possible without veganism?

I didn't watch the video but the simplest answer is, it depends on what you mean by spirituality. It's too vague a word.
 
I didn't watch the video but the simplest answer is, it depends on what you mean by spirituality. It's too vague a word.
I briefly touched on what spirituality meant to me in the video...but yes, it can be a hard thing to grasp for many. Just interested to hear people's perspectives on the matter :)
 
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I think spirituality is a mindset that leads to a process of reaching higher than either the animal nature or the human nature and therefore, veganism would probably be encountered by people somewhere along that path but that doesn't mean that somebody who hasn't got there yet isn't spiritual. I had to think about that quite a lot. Thank you for the question. :)
 
So far I am just at the beginning of your video and agree that it is an interesting question and one that I think I am somewhat qualified to answer.

You ask "is it possible to realize spirituality while still participating in this systemic cruelty to animals" and without having listened further, as yet, I would comment that I heard the same thing growing up in a born again Christian home.... everyone else is going to hell because they don't believe the same as we do, despite never having ever heard "the gospel". So my own family, despite not being vegan would consider themselves to be "very spiritual" and would not even begin to consider that what they ate would have anything at all to do with it.

And now you have used the term 'ascend' and that implies that we have been working our way towards ascension - through various lifetimes? and if that is true that we are all on a journey towards ascension and that takes many different forms for different souls, just as it does in this lifetime - it took a number of tries before I settled into veganism and I would not have considered that I wasn't spiritual during the times that I wasn't, it is a journey!

Ah so you went there... without veganism, no spirituality..... I disagree completely with that conclusion.

You are bringing karma and dharma into the conversation and leaving out, soul groups and reincarnation and soul agreements and so many other options that, once you step outside of 'organized' religion, are on the table. What if my 'born again' family made an agreement with me, before we came in this time, that they would all be 'born again' and not vegan in order for me to be able to break free and find a higher path? Not a "straight and narrow" path (way to trigger to a former born again) but a windy beautiful path that goes up and down hills and into valleys.

Towards the beginning of the video you said "who am I to judge" - exactly... who are you to judge another's path? You are maybe here to be a beacon of light... a lighthouse if you will... a lighthouse does it job without judgement, it shines a light and doesn't take it personally if a ship ignores the light and lands on the rocks, it continues to shine. I prefer to be a lighthouse than to be judge and jury on another's path in life / lifetimes.

Thank you for asking the question. It is a good reminder to myself as "judging" can sometimes be the default when you are brought up in a highly religious family and I prefer to leave all of that behind in all aspects of my life.

Before hitting Post Reply I went back and listened again and feel that some of what you are saying is the basis of why many people find vegans annoying and self-righteous... now, not only does it sound like you are judging their way of life but you are judging the very journey of their soul as well.

I love people like Wayne Dyer (RIP) who promoted joy and love and sending out waves of love to people in good and not so good situations. Eg. if you are in a store and you see someone with a cart full of animal products, then stand close to them and send out vibes of love and peace then let spirit do its work - if you see someone broken down at the side of the road, send them vibes of peace and joy - honks at you because they are annoyed, smile, wave, send them positive vibes.... you get the picture. Not judging brings so much more joy than judging does. IMO

Emma JC
Find your vegan soulmate or just a friend. www.spiritualmatchmaking.com
 
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So far I am just at the beginning of your video and agree that it is an interesting question and one that I think I am somewhat qualified to answer.

You ask "is it possible to realize spirituality while still participating in this systemic cruelty to animals" and without having listened further, as yet, I would comment that I heard the same thing growing up in a born again Christian home.... everyone else is going to hell because they don't believe the same as we do, despite never having ever heard "the gospel". So my own family, despite not being vegan would consider themselves to be "very spiritual" and would not even begin to consider that what they ate would have anything at all to do with it.

And now you have used the term 'ascend' and that implies that we have been working our way towards ascension - through various lifetimes? and if that is true that we are all on a journey towards ascension and that takes many different forms for different souls, just as it does in this lifetime - it took a number of tries before I settled into veganism and I would not have considered that I wasn't spiritual during the times that I wasn't, it is a journey!

Ah so you went there... without veganism, no spirituality..... I disagree completely with that conclusion.

You are bringing karma and dharma into the conversation and leaving out, soul groups and reincarnation and soul agreements and so many other options that, once you step outside of 'organized' religion, are on the table. What if my 'born again' family made an agreement with me, before we came in this time, that they would all be 'born again' and not vegan in order for me to be able to break free and find a higher path? Not a "straight and narrow" path (way to trigger to a former born again) but a windy beautiful path that goes up and down hills and into valleys.

Towards the beginning of the video you said "who am I to judge" - exactly... who are you to judge another's path? You are maybe here to be a beacon of light... a lighthouse if you will... a lighthouse does it job without judgement, it shines a light and doesn't take it personally if a ship ignores the light and lands on the rocks, it continues to shine. I prefer to be a lighthouse than to be judge and jury on another's path in life / lifetimes.

Thank you for asking the question. It is a good reminder to myself as "judging" can sometimes be the default when you are brought up in a highly religious family and I prefer to leave all of that behind in all aspects of my life.

Before hitting Post Reply I went back and listened again and feel that some of what you are saying is the basis of why many people find vegans annoying and self-righteous... now, not only does it sound like you are judging their way of life but you are judging the very journey of their soul as well.

I love people like Wayne Dyer (RIP) who promoted joy and love and sending out waves of love to people in good and not so good situations. Eg. if you are in a store and you see someone with a cart full of animal products, then stand close to them and send out vibes of love and peace then let spirit do its work - if you see someone broken down at the side of the road, send them vibes of peace and joy - honks at you because they are annoyed, smile, wave, send them positive vibes.... you get the picture. Not judging brings so much more joy than judging does. IMO

Emma JC
Find your vegan soulmate or just a friend. www.spiritualmatchmaking.com
Thank you for your well-articulated response, Emma. I'd just like to point a few things, if that is okay with you...

"You ask "is it possible to realize spirituality while still participating in this systemic cruelty to animals" and without having listened further, as yet, I would comment that I heard the same thing growing up in a born again Christian home.... everyone else is going to hell because they don't believe the same as we do, despite never having ever heard "the gospel". So my own family, despite not being vegan would consider themselves to be "very spiritual" and would not even begin to consider that what they ate would have anything at all to do with it."

You slightly misquoted me but it's no biggie...so, I never implied that, "everyone else is going to hell because they don't believe [I try not to have beliefs; I'm more about knowing] the same as we do." I do not know how you arrived at that thought...

"And now you have used the term 'ascend' and that implies that we have been working our way towards ascension - through various lifetimes? and if that is true that we are all on a journey towards ascension and that takes many different forms for different souls, just as it does in this lifetime - it took a number of tries before I settled into veganism and I would not have considered that I wasn't spiritual during the times that I wasn't, it is a journey!"

Ascension, as I innerstand it, is about raising one's frequency....and with regards to ascension and animal use, I said, "that isn't to say that you can't be spiritual, or that you cannot ascend if you're using animals." I then went on to say, "who am I to judge, maybe you can [ascend and be spiritual]".

"Ah so you went there... without veganism, no spirituality..... I disagree completely with that conclusion."

It's okay if you disagree with that conclusion, as I was just sharing my feelings on the matter...to add to that: Based on my own experience, I just think it is harder to realize one's spirituality (the self) if one partakes in violence of any kind. I don' think it is controversial to say that using animals, for example, lowers one's frequency...

"You are bringing karma and dharma into the conversation and leaving out, soul groups and reincarnation and soul agreements and so many other options that, once you step outside of 'organized' religion, are on the table. What if my 'born again' family made an agreement with me, before we came in this time, that they would all be 'born again' and not vegan in order for me to be able to break free and find a higher path? Not a "straight and narrow" path (way to trigger to a former born again) but a windy beautiful path that goes up and down hills and into valleys."

I hear what you're saying...I didn't talk about soul agreements, etc. because I didn't want to veer off on too many tangent...although, it is something I may revisit at a later date. I don't see how having some kind of 'born again' agreement excuses animal use, especially when it enters one's awareness...my feeling is that when you know better, you have to do better, regardless of 'contracts' and/or agreements, etc.

"Towards the beginning of the video you said "who am I to judge" - exactly... who are you to judge another's path? You are maybe here to be a beacon of light... a lighthouse if you will... a lighthouse does it job without judgement, it shines a light and doesn't take it personally if a ship ignores the light and lands on the rocks, it continues to shine. I prefer to be a lighthouse than to be judge and jury on another's path in life / lifetimes."

Again, I am not judging another's path...I can only share my perspective...what I know to be right for me...and if it resonates with another being, then so be it...no judgement here.

"Thank you for asking the question. It is a good reminder to myself as "judging" can sometimes be the default when you are brought up in a highly religious family and I prefer to leave all of that behind in all aspects of my life. Before hitting Post Reply I went back and listened again and feel that some of what you are saying is the basis of why many people find vegans annoying and self-righteous... now, not only does it sound like you are judging their way of life but you are judging the very journey of their soul as well."

Thank you. If you perceive others' to be judgey/preachy/annoying/self-righteous, etc., it might be a reflection of what is going on within you.

"I love people like Wayne Dyer (RIP) who promoted joy and love and sending out waves of love to people in good and not so good situations. Eg. if you are in a store and you see someone with a cart full of animal products, then stand close to them and send out vibes of love and peace then let spirit do its work - if you see someone broken down at the side of the road, send them vibes of peace and joy - honks at you because they are annoyed, smile, wave, send them positive vibes.... you get the picture. Not judging brings so much more joy than judging does. IMO"

I totally hear what you are saying. It is always wise to be virtuous in those kinds of situations...not always easy, but essential for the betterment of our souls.

God bless, sister Emma. And thank you for your feedback :)
 
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You slightly misquoted me but it's no biggie...so, I never implied that, "everyone else is going to hell because they don't believe [I try not to have beliefs; I'm more about knowing] the same as we do." I do not know how you arrived at that thought...

Ascension, as I innerstand it, is about raising one's frequency....and with regards to ascension and animal use, I said, "that isn't to say that you can't be spiritual, or that you cannot ascend if you're using animals." I then went on to say, "who am I to judge, maybe you can [ascend and be spiritual]".

"Ah so you went there... without veganism, no spirituality..... I disagree completely with that conclusion."

It's okay if you disagree with that conclusion, as I was just sharing my feelings on the matter...to add to that: Based on my own experience, I just think it is harder to realize one's spirituality (the self) if one partakes in violence of any kind. I don' think it is controversial to say that using animals, for example, lowers one's frequency...

I hear what you're saying...I didn't talk about soul agreements, etc. because I didn't want to veer off on too many tangent...although, it is something I may revisit at a later date. I don't see how having some kind of 'born again' agreement excuses animal use, especially when it enters one's awareness...my feeling is that when you know better, you have to do better, regardless of 'contracts' and/or agreements, etc.

Again, I am not judging another's path...I can only share my perspective...what I know to be right for me...and if it resonates with another being, then so be it...no judgement here.

... now, not only does it sound like you are judging their way of life but you are judging the very journey of their soul as well."

Thank you. If you perceive others' to be judgey/preachy/annoying/self-righteous, etc., it might be a reflection of what is going on within you.

It isn't you that said "everyone is going to hell" - I said it reminds me of those who do say that...
ah but you did judge... your last statement in your video "Spirituality is absolutely not possible, without veganism and anyone who says otherwise is lying to you."
on this we agree - when you know better you should do better - that can apply in so many areas of life and most of us do not always 'do better' when we should - do you ever speed? do you ever have that unhealthy (but vegan) cake? are you always loving and kind? aware people try for sure and yet there are so many people that have no idea about veganism per se and that is why I am thrilled that there are at least 3 recognized paths into veganism... for the animals, for the environment and for health.... they all end up in the same place and I hope that even more paths will emerge
It isn't about me judging vegans it's about how vegans (myself included) can be perceived - we can come across as annoying if we project the attitude that we are right and others are wrong... it is easy to do.
This is a great conversation and I am happy to participate and hope that it is helpful to others, it has certainly been a reminder to me to watch my own 'judging' of others.
Emma JC
Find your vegan soulmate or just a friend. www.spiritualmatchmaking.com
 
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I haven't watched the video nor do I know what you mean by spirituality. But I think "spirituality" is a purely human construct about meaning - the hope/wish/belief that there is more to things than a mere physical existence driven by physical matters. So... I don't see why veganism is necessary to be spiritual. Plenty of human societies have been spiritual while happily enslaving and slaughtering other humans, let alone other animal species. I suspect you mean "spiritual" according to your particular definition.
 
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I haven't watched the video nor do I know what you mean by spirituality. But I think "spirituality" is a purely human construct about meaning - the hope/wish/belief that there is more to things than a mere physical existence driven by physical matters. So... I don't see why veganism is necessary to be spiritual. Plenty of human societies have been spiritual while happily enslaving and slaughtering other humans, let alone other animal species. I suspect you mean "spiritual" according to your particular definition.
Yes, it is a bit of a tricky one to define...because, as you say, we have conceptualized what it means to be spiritual...it has become a sort of marketing term, especially in recent times. Might revisit this one again at some point, but thank you for sharing your perspectives :)
 
I'm not very spiritual so I don't have any skin in this game. but I keep thinking of Native American Indians who would apologize to the animals they killed for meat and thank them for their sacrifice.
 
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Do you think that the apologies would necessarily offset the harm (maybe karmic in nature) they inflicted upon the animals they sacrificed?
 
Do you think that the apologies would necessarily offset the harm (maybe karmic in nature) they inflicted upon the animals they sacrificed?
Do you think only humans can be spiritual? I'm still not sure what you mean by the term, but I get the feeling that karma/spirit/higher planes etc are only possible for humans.
 
I feel very powerfully that everything is spiritual, in essence. The animals are no different in this
Do you think only humans can be spiritual? I'm still not sure what you mean by the term, but I get the feeling that karma/spirit/higher planes etc are only possible for humans.
It is my feeling that everything is spiritual, in essence. I can't say that karma is only possible for humans but I don't think animals have an ego like we do...it is obvious that they are more present, which would indicate that they probably don't' experience the same level of mind chatter that we do.
 
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