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RogerDis

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Hello! I'm NOT a vegan, but I know very little about veganism, and I've got a lot of questions. I hope this is the forum in which to ask them. If so, may I start with...

Why are YOU vegans? What made you decide to choose that lifestyle?

I look forward to hearing from you, and to seeing how many different answers you'll have.
 

Little Mrs Loopy

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Hi Roger, I hope you don't mind me jumping on your band wagon but I'm an intrigued non vegan, looking forward to hearing any responses on your post. I've been really inspired by vegans on social media to change my habits and I'm 1 day into my new vegetarian lifestyle. @littlemrsloopy
 

rogerjolly

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Hi RogerDis & Loopy,

Whenever you want to really understand the fundamentals of an issue you have to ask the right question of the right people.

The right people are RogerDis and Loopy.

The right question is, “Why are you not vegan?” ;)

Roger.
 
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In one sentence I am (mostly) vegan because I don't believe we should cause unecessary harm , suffering and death.

For a few paragraph answer, you can see here: https://whytryveg.wordpress.com/2017/02/19/my-veg-argument/ It is my own blog.

For more detailed about the unpleasantness of modern farms, click here: https://whytryveg.wordpress.com/2017/03/12/64/

Let me know if you have more questions, or want book/movie/blog reccomendations. I should be back in the next day or two or if not someone else can take it on.
 
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Little Mrs Loopy

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Hi RJ to be totally honest, I would love to be vegan but I'm weak and my body craves more than plant based food. I'm a couple of days into my vegetarian diet, I'm taking small steps to change the habits of 30 something years, which is hard!!

I try to live as ethical as possible (not easy for a clueless beginner). If anyone has advice on high street fashion chains that are more/less ethical would be really helpful.

:)
 

rogerjolly

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I would love to be vegan but I'm weak

Hi Loopy,

You have answered honestly the question I suggested you pose yourself. I will answer the question posed by RogerDis, “Why are you vegan?” Put on your seat belts and sit back. This could be a long ride.

Are you old enough to remember the BBC sitcom “The Good Life”? That is the life my wife and I were leading except we were in the country not in Suburbia. We strived for as much self-sufficiency as it was possible to have in a modern world. And we knew what we were about. I had grown up on a farm. My wife had gone to Agricultural College where just one of her many accomplishments was to be a prize winning cheese maker.

Amongst other stock we kept goats. The surplus milk and cheese were sold. Our children loved growing up with the animals. When a male kid needed slaughter I would take it off to the abattoir and later bring the result home to go in the freezer. Smallholders do this. They look upon the animal as an animal when alive but as meat when dead.

At the dinner table one evening our eight year old looked at the meat on his plate and asked, “Is this Blossom?” We had to answer truthfully. He said he would not eat it and declared himself vegetarian.

Out of the mouths of babes…… We discussed the ethics of it all and decided there and then that he was right. But we also knew that Blossom was not meat because we wanted the meat. Blossom was meat because we wanted the milk from his mother.

We had heard of these weirdo vegan types but had always dismissed them as cranks. We put an advert in the local paper asking for help and hence learned about the Vegan Society. That was the only support to be had all those years ago, long before the internet, but we have been vegan ever since.

We will offer advice if asked by someone we believe is genuinely interested but shy away from mere conversational chit-chat on the subject. What we do not do is to preach. We appreciate that each individual has to feel their own way toward moral convictions.

Roger.
 
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rogerjolly

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Hi again Loopy,

Perhaps I could make a few suggestions that might help you on your path ahead?

First of all let me say that the vast majority of vegans believe that there should be a transition period through vegetarianism and then yet another from vegetarianism to veganism. This was not true for me but probably is for most others.

Secondly make full use of this most excellent forum. Read all the recent threads. Then choose several names from the regulars and read all of their posts. That way you will get to know a little of their personalities and attitudes to veganism and why they hold them. There is a vast spectrum here!

Thirdly join the Vegan Society. I would strongly recommend that. They have local volunteer contacts. Through them you should be able to get the support of others which, from what you say, I feel you might need. (I do have a few minor quibbles about the society’s organisation but have always maintained my membership.)

All the very best luck,

Roger.
 

RogerDis

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I will answer the question posed by RogerDis, “Why are you vegan?” Put on your seat belts and sit back. This could be a long ride.

Are you old enough to remember the BBC sitcom “The Good Life”? That is the life my wife and I were leading except we were in the country not in Suburbia. We strived for as much self-sufficiency as it was possible to have in a modern world. And we knew what we were about. I had grown up on a farm. My wife had gone to Agricultural College where just one of her many accomplishments was to be a prize winning cheese maker.

Amongst other stock we kept goats. The surplus milk and cheese were sold. Our children loved growing up with the animals. When a male kid needed slaughter I would take it off to the abattoir and later bring the result home to go in the freezer. Smallholders do this. They look upon the animal as an animal when alive but as meat when dead.

At the dinner table one evening our eight year old looked at the meat on his plate and asked, “Is this Blossom?” We had to answer truthfully. He said he would not eat it and declared himself vegetarian.

Out of the mouths of babes…… We discussed the ethics of it all and decided there and then that he was right. But we also knew that Blossom was not meat because we wanted the meat. Blossom was meat because we wanted the milk from his mother.

We had heard of these weirdo vegan types but had always dismissed them as cranks. We put an advert in the local paper asking for help and hence learned about the Vegan Society. That was the only support to be had all those years ago, long before the internet, but we have been vegan ever since.

We will offer advice if asked by someone we believe is genuinely interested but shy away from mere conversational chit-chat on the subject. What we do not do is to preach. We appreciate that each individual has to feel their own way toward moral convictions.

Roger.

Thanks for that, Roger. I guessed that would be the answer of many vegans, and I agree wholeheartedly that a good deal of modern farming is not only unethical, but also not conducive to the good health of those who eat them. But you have to recognize that it's not true of all farming. In the UK, there are many farms whose practices are beyond reproach. Their produce is necessarily more expensive, but it's well worth if for the sake of the animals and the consumers. Of course, if you believe simply that it's wrong to kill animals at all, no matter how humanely (not a contradiction), then you have to be vegan.

But one of my questions is this... If we humans weren't to eat animals at all, or kill them for any other human consumables, then how would we cope with the ever-growing numbers of currently farmed creatures? Within a couple of decades, they would be out of control.

Hi RogerDis & Loopy,

Whenever you want to really understand the fundamentals of an issue you have to ask the right question of the right people.

The right people are RogerDis and Loopy.

The right question is, “Why are you not vegan?” ;)

Roger.

Simple answer - I like to eat all of the products that vegans shun. I suppose it's a taste acquired since infancy. That seems to be the case with most of humanity, so one could argue that it's natural.
 

rogerjolly

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Hi RogerDis,
We (here meaning "I") will offer advice if asked by someone we believe is genuinely interested but shy away from mere conversational chit-chat on the subject. What we do not do is to preach. We appreciate that each individual has to feel their own way toward moral convictions.

My feeling is (assuming you are not one of our rare troublesome trolls slowly building up the ante) that you are solidly fixed in your attitudes and merely want to while away some time in conversation. The points you raise are all very old chestnuts and if you really want a vegan view about them all you have to do is use google. Your answers are all out there. I would not have responded to your thread had it not been for Loopy’s contribution. :)

Roger.
 
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RogerDis

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Hi RogerDis,


My feeling is (assuming you are not one of our rare troublesome trolls slowly building up the ante) that you are solidly fixed in your attitudes and merely want to while away some time in conversation. The points you raise are all very old chestnuts and if you really want a vegan view about them all you have to do is use google. Your answers are all out there. I would not have responded to your thread had it not been for Loopy’s contribution. :)

Roger.

I'm sorry you feel that way. My questions might be old chestnuts to you, but they're new to me. As for being fixed in my way, I'm always open to new ideas, and have some genuine questions. The problem with Googling the issues is that it's not conversational. I'd rather sit down over a pint with a vegan, and discuss the matters, but I don't know any. But I'm sorry to have wasted your time, and I shan't bother you any more.

RogerDis
 

rogerjolly

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Hi RogerDis,

The reason I suggested you might be trolling is this: You make many, many comments/assertions that, on a vegan forum, are extremely controversial if not thoroughly objectionable. I have this mental picture of a self-satisfied troll relishing in his satisfaction at inducing vegan upon vegan around the world to furiously type away producing one thousand word essays to refute your views and to answer your questions. And all to no avail because the poor suckers are all being conned. And, having been outed far too soon, the troll is now fiendishly attempting instead to give one of the respondents a guilt complex!

Now, if I am mistaken and you are not Mr Troll then what you ask is still similarly unreasonable. The purpose of the forum has to be the mutual support of vegans and aspiring vegans. It is not to regurgitate vegan views that are freely available on the internet merely to satisfy someone who merely fancies a chat. If you would first of all like to educate yourself through your own efforts and then come back to us with a specific comment or question then I am sure it would be well received.

Roger.

PS. I know you won’t believe this but I really am a quite nice friendly chap. It’s just that I suffer from the well-known Yorkshire predilection for bluntly telling it how it is. :)
 

RogerDis

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Roger, I apologise for my apparent misuse of the forum. I have asked admin for my account to be deleted, not to give you a guilt complex, but because it seems I'm not going to get my answers here. I have not made "many, many comments/assertions". I've not actually made many, many anything here. Just one simple statement about farming in the UK, one short answer to the question of why I'm not vegan, and my simple question.

I wish you well.

RogerDis
 

rogerjolly

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Hi RogerDis,

And my apologies for the “many, many”. I wrote that without having your post in front of me and my memory was that your crimes against veganism were truly multitudinous.

The Vegan Police could however charge you with:

(1) Stating, “In the UK, there are many farms whose practices are beyond reproach.” Look up, for example, Gary Francione’s concept of abolitionism verses welfarism.

(2) Suggesting that there is no contradiction in saying that the killing of animals can be humane.

(3) Implying that farm animals would ever be allowed to go forth and multiply if they were not required by humans.

(4) Inferring that it is a reasonable excuse to do something just because you like doing it, ie. “I like to eat all of the products that vegans shun.”

(5) Furthermore that doing so could be natural because most people do it.

I also wish you well out there in our cruel, cruel world. :)

Roger
 
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But one of my questions is this... If we humans weren't to eat animals at all, or kill them for any other human consumables, then how would we cope with the ever-growing numbers of currently farmed creatures? Within a couple of decades, they would be out of control.

Humans control the breeding of those animals.

The life span of the animals is quite short, a month or two maybe for chickens, 6 months to 2 years for pigs and chickens. As more people go vegetarian and vegan, they will just breed less animals since they can't sell them and the population will steadily reduce. They are only ever growing because of the demand. So, this is not an issue. Actually, as more people go vegan less animals will mean more land free since so much land is used to go crops. And it will be better environmentally speaking.

Google philisophical vegan. I won't post the link incase that's not allowed but that forum says:
Meat eater vs. Vegan debate welcome
You may get a better response there to this type of question.
 

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Dead thread, thread locked.

OP has requested deletion of their account.
 
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