If everone was a vegan

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I was just wondering what would happen if everyone was a Vegan
All farmland would need to go arable
We would no longer see cows/sheep/pigs etc all of these would need to be killed before a specified date or turned out to roam the fields and woods ( a few would probably kept as pets but of course they will breed so would soon become a problem to there owners)
No one would be allowed to control rabbits/hares/deer/wood pigeons etc and very quickly become out of control
So within a very short space of time we would find that every available field growing the crops that we need to survive are being totally destroyed by our native wildlife and once domestic but now roaming stock
Any answers to this dilemma Please

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Lou

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There have been several articles written by "real scientists" on that subject. I may send you a few links if you ask.

I have to warn you that this topic has been used by trolls and "vegan haters" in many places. Even some of the articles have been used to "prove" that veganism is not "sustainable". So since this is your first day and your first message, I'm a little bit suspicious about your motivations.

So I'm not going to address all your concerns. I could but let's just see if you are really curious or just trolling.

"All farmland would need to go arable"

I'm not even sure what you mean by that. Isn't all farmland arable by definition? Perhaps you mean all arable lands would need to be farmed. But even this would not be true. Without having to grow crops for livestock we would have plenty of farmland for feeding people.
 

TofuRobot

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*Were. If everyone *were* vegan. ....Assuming this is a real question, the first and most important thing is that it's not going to happen (overnight) Worrying about that is like the "what if you were stranded on a desert island" question. We're not, and really, how often does that happen? What I believe will happen, is that demand for animals raised for food diminish, and the industry will adjust accordingly over time by breeding fewer animals for the purpose of food. Any "surplus" animals could go to sanctuaries. Animals in the wild do a pretty good job of keeping their populations in check when humans don't get involved. Our presence is what F's things up.
 
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There have been several articles written by "real scientists" on that subject. I may send you a few links if you ask.

I have to warn you that this topic has been used by trolls and "vegan haters" in many places. Even some of the articles have been used to "prove" that veganism is not "sustainable". So since this is your first day and your first message, I'm a little bit suspicious about your motivations.

So I'm not going to address all your concerns. I could but let's just see if you are really curious or just trolling.

"All farmland would need to go arable"

I'm not even sure what you mean by that. Isn't all farmland arable by definition? Perhaps you mean all arable lands would need to be farmed. But even this would not be true. Without having to grow crops for livestock we would have plenty of farmland for feeding people.
Not all farmland is arable
Arable land is used to grow crops land that live stock graze is grass or pasture not land that produces crops for human consumption
I just wondered that if we were all vegan would we not have to use this grazing to provide more crops hence we would no longer see animals out in the fields as we do to day
 
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*Were. If everyone *were* vegan. ....Assuming this is a real question, the first and most important thing is that it's not going to happen (overnight) Worrying about that is like the "what if you were stranded on a desert island" question. We're not, and really, how often does that happen? What I believe will happen, is that demand for animals raised for food diminish, and the industry will adjust accordingly over time by breeding fewer animals for the purpose of food. Any "surplus" animals could go to sanctuaries. Animals in the wild do a pretty good job of keeping their populations in check when humans don't get involved. Our presence is what F's things up.
Industry would indeed adjust as all farms would need to go arable so no longer any livestock farmers
All these animals will still breed of there own accord and none will be killed so would they not just become out of control and eat all the crops that we would need to survive
 

Lou

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Not all farmland is arable
Arable land is used to grow crops land that live stock graze is grass or pasture not land that produces crops for human consumption
I just wondered that if we were all vegan would we not have to use this grazing to provide more crops hence we would no longer see animals out in the fields as we do to day

The definition of arable is
fit for or used for the growing of crops
From Meriam Webster.

all farmland is arable. by definition. I think the word or words you are looking for is pasture land or range land. Pastures may be suitable for crops. Range land is not.

Anyway, I think what you might be suggesting is that pasture land would go into crop production. And it might. It doesn't have to. Sometimes when a farmer uses crop rotation a field takes a turn as pasture land. Farmers could still do that. the manure is good for the soil. And it certainly doesn't have to be cows. But it could be cows. If it is close to a highway it could be something like zebras or peacocks.

There is also a belief that if we go vegan we would need MORE cropland. Because all we would eat is crops. This is somewhat debatable among scientists. a significant number of scientists believe we would actually use less cropland than now. A lot of crops are fed to livestock. and the conversion of plant protein to animal protein is inefficient - a lot of calories, pounds of food or grams or protein (take your pick) are wasted on the animal metabolizing.
 
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The definition of arable is
fit for or used for the growing of crops
From Meriam Webster.

all farmland is arable. by definition. I think the word or words you are looking for is pasture land or range land. Pastures may be suitable for crops. Range land is not.

Anyway, I think what you might be suggesting is that pasture land would go into crop production. And it might. It doesn't have to. Sometimes when a farmer uses crop rotation a field takes a turn as pasture land. Farmers could still do that. the manure is good for the soil. And it certainly doesn't have to be cows. But it could be cows. If it is close to a highway it could be something like zebras or peacocks.

There is also a belief that if we go vegan we would need MORE cropland. Because all we would eat is crops. This is somewhat debatable among scientists. a significant number of scientists believe we would actually use less cropland than now. A lot of crops are fed to livestock. and the conversion of plant protein to animal protein is inefficient - a lot of calories, pounds of food or grams or protein (take your pick) are wasted on the animal metabolizing.
I live in the centre of rural England close to Rockingham Forest and surrounded by woods and farmland
Deer numbers are out off control I have seen in excess of 300 fallow deer on just one field of wheat there is also a big problem with very large flocks of wood pigeons that will total destroy 100's of acres of oilseed rape in just a few days
So what does the farmer do if he can no longer control these plus rabbit's/hares etc does he sit back and watch his livelihood destroyed and nothing left for human consumption the more Vegan's the bigger the problem
If all wild animals and livestock left are all left to breed numbers would very quickly become out of control TofoRobot suggest that animals in the wild do a good job of keeping there population in check but that is just not the case
What does happen is that some will die of starvation because there's no enough food or they become more prone to disease when an area of land becomes over populated
There is also the problem of deer related RTA's 1000's of deer are hit by vehicles just in the UK alone ever year most of which crawl away to die a linger death and if not controlled these incidents would increase
As I'm sure you have already realised I am not a vegan myself Lou states that I may be a troll or a vegan hater
I am certainly not a vegan hater and I totally respect your lifestyle and I hope in return you will respect mine
As for being a troll that is for you to decide I certain in no way my wish to offend anyone but to simply air my own opinion (I hope you will agree that everyone has a right to do that) and where else would I ask a question on veganism other than on a vegan forum and again my intention is not to offend anyone but if Admin see it fit to ban me so be it

joeblogg66
 
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@joebloggs66
Very good.

As I stated at the beginning of our conversation, this kind of question is often used by vegan haters and trolls.

But you seem to be legit. So here is what i hope can address some more of your concerns.

As far as wildlife control. this has always been an issue and will continue to be an issue.

I studied some Wildlife Management in college. Historically there have been some incredible disasters. For example, when wolves were hunted to the brink of extinction in the Rocky Mountains of Colorado, the deer population went out of control and millions of deer died from starvation and disease. Right now we also have issues with deer overpopulation in suburban areas where there are no predators. And then they get hit by cars. And don't even get me started on our local Canadian Geese problems. And the worst stuff is the stuff caused accidentally or on purpose with the introduction of exotic species. (We have had some great discussions on those topics here at the Vegan Forum).

But these are not uniquely vegan problems or even vegan caused problems. Wildlife management is a complex (econ/soc/pol) art and science. There have been problems way before there were vegans and there will probably always be problems.

Vegans certainly don't know the answer. And I don't think anyone is looking at us to solve these problems. Vegan ethics may reduce or eliminate some of the possible solutions. Better solutions need to be found and it's possible that a vegan may find one.

Anyway, my point is pest control is going to be needed now and of course in a vegan future.

And.... if you want to worry about the future. Maybe you should worry about the floods and droughts that will destroy crops if we don't prevent climate change. A vegan population would do a lot to forestall that future.
 
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Emma JC

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thank you, Lou - I was starting to type something similar and you, with your education in this matter, have answered it perfectly

livestock and wild animals are two different issues completely...

Emma JC
 
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Thankyou Lou and Emma JC your replies are much appreciated

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Lou

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Well, vegans are also against hunting. but the key word in the vegan doctrine is exploitation. Hunting a species is exploitation. Managing the population of a species is just good ... well... management. Especially if the pop is out of control and eating all your carrots.

In a related topic, IMHO some of the worst wildlife management decisions have been made to protect livestock or the rangeland it requires. Things like predator eradication programs would probably not exist but for ranchers pressuring the USDA to protect cows and sheep.
 
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Wishing you all a Happy and New Year

Unfortunately this will be my last Message as I did very rarely receive Spam Mail and it may just be coincidence but ever since I signed up to the Forum I have received around 10 a day so will ask admin to delete my account as a precaution

All Best joebloggs 66
 

Emma JC

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Wishing you all a Happy and New Year

Unfortunately this will be my last Message as I did very rarely receive Spam Mail and it may just be coincidence but ever since I signed up to the Forum I have received around 10 a day so will ask admin to delete my account as a precaution

All Best joebloggs 66

Sorry to see you go joe - I can almost guarantee that it is not this site that is contributing to your Spam as I have never received any spam (ever) on the email that I use for this forum. Others need not be concerned IMO.

All the best to you as well.

Emma JC
 
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