US Hypertension not improving

daxm

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7 weeks ago I went from a sedentary omnivore (near carnivore) to 100% vegan exercising daily. I do see improvements in many areas but I’m surprised my blood pressure seems to have remained the same.

I’m guessing the main suggestion will be to “talk to your doctor”, which I will, but they’ll probably just tell me to continue taking my pills (which I am) or up my dose! My goal is to get off this chronic pill merry-go-round!

Thoughts?
 
Vegan isn't necessarily healthier, it only says you don't eat or use things from animals.

Have you read Dr Esselstyn? Dr Michael Greger?
Esselstyns diet to prevent and reverse heart disease is as low fat as possible, but both doctors number one prescription is a strict whole food, plant based diet. No oils, no sugar, no salt
I watched a co worker regain his life by following Dr Esselstns diet. He'd had three bypass operations, stents, drugs, type 2 diabetic-all were common in his family. He was given last rites at his last emergency surgery. Two years later he's a marathon runner, no sign of diabetes, and while I don't know if off all meds, I do know his test showed reversal they said was impossible.
Sure, doing better is always better, but when you have a serious health matter it's often best to go full on to see improvement.

.
 
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It's impossible to say without knowing what's causing the blood pressure issue.

But there is a good chance that it will eventually be improved by your changes in diet and exercise. It might just take more time.
 
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Vegan isn't necessarily healthier, it only says you don't eat or use things from animals.

Have you read Dr Esselstyn? Dr Michael Greger?
Esselstyns diet to prevent and reverse heart disease is as low fat as possible, but both doctors number one prescription is a strict whole food, plant based diet. No oils, no sugar, no salt
I watched a co worker regain his life by following Dr Esselstns diet. He'd had three bypass operations, stents, drugs, type 2 diabetic-all were common in his family. He was given last rites at his last emergency surgery. Two years later he's a marathon runner, no sign of diabetes, and while I don't know if off all meds, I do know his test showed reversal they said was impossible.
Sure, doing better is always better, but when you have a serious health matter it's often best to go full on to see improvement.

.
Dr. Neal Barnard’s lectures is what got me started down this path. I am doing Whole Foods plant based with little oils. I do still use seasoning, like salt, but my dishes rarely have any.
 
It's impossible to say without knowing what's causing the blood pressure issue.

But there is a good chance that it will eventually be improved by your changes in diet and exercise. It might just take more time.
I’m impatient, I know. It’s just frustrating that “others” see huge improvements in just 2 weeks. My hope is that my pressure is still high because my body is still cleaning out. Fingers crossed.
 
I’m impatient, I know. It’s just frustrating that “others” see huge improvements in just 2 weeks. My hope is that my pressure is still high because my body is still cleaning out. Fingers crossed.
Hi damx,

You haven't said what your blood pressure is so I can't comment about any progress you may or may not experience. Do you have a specific goal in mind?

There are a lot of things that can affect your blood pressure. I have been checking and recording my blood pressure since Oct of 2015. In my personal data, I've noticed some interesting patterns. I also track exercise and intensity.

I started doing this while I was in cardiac rehab. I am a veteran of a heart attack and triple by pass. I would say I'm about 85-90% compliant with the Esselstyn diet. I eat a 100% vegan diet, but I do occasionally have nut butter, or some avacado, and I absolutely have a love affair with miso.

When you compare yourself to other people's progress, are these people you actually have met or accounts you've read about? Please keep in mind people will have differing results and even with the same results time periods vary.

Do you check your blood pressure regularly? Have you had your meter checked for accuracy? How and when do you check your pressure?

What about general stress in your life? Have you tried any relaxation techniques before you test?

What are you eating? Do you consume caffeine ? Are you on any medications?

What type of exercise are you doing? What intensity? How often?

If there is anything you'd care to discuss, perhaps I can offer you something useful.

Best for improving health,

Bob
 
Blood pressure is a useful metric. but it also is a difficult one. There are just so many factors and variables. I take my blood pressure regularly too and only over months can I detect trends. The Health App actually plots BP and only when you zoom out and look at a few months can you detect trends.

However, blood pressure is very closely associated with your weight. You want to reduce your blood pressure - lose some weight. And you can track weight very closely. Weigh yourself at the same time of day every day and you can pretty much eliminate daily fluctuations. A digital scale isn't a bad investment. And some kind of tracking software that does averaging and charting. The Health App does that. but there are many apps and websites that do that too.

A lot of people say that one or two pounds a week is a good goal. And I guess they are but they are also pretty much the safe maximums. Most people have a hard time losing 2 pounds a week and get frustrated when they don't. If you can't lose one pound a month you are doing something wrong and its time to go back to the drawing board.

A lot of people think one pound a month is too slow. But good health is not a sprint. It's a marathon. and remember losing weight is only half the story (or less than half). then you have to keep it off.
 
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I don't know how old you are, but for me, personally, I had to work very hard to get my blood pressure down to the point where medication was no longer required. EDIT: I see you are age 49. You are in that prime age group.

It sounds like you are doing the right thing with the diet aspect, but how much exercise are you getting, really? You say you are exercising daily, but to what end? This is where I fell short. I thought a WFPD would be enough alone, to be honest, but that is a real mistake I made. We all need exercise!

I also increased blood pressure lowering foods in my own diet, like your leafy greens, beans, oats, beets, and so many more. However, it wasn't until I started a regular cardio exercise routine before I was able to get off my BP medications. It took about a year from when I really started trying, as in exercising regularly, before I was off my meds.

With any kind of medical history, it's always a good idea to check with your doctor before starting a vigorous exercise program. They will want to keep an eye on things in case your meds need to be reduced and/or eventually eliminated.

I also suggest Dr. Esselstyn's book and videos on this subject. Dr. Greger is on the same page, and has great information, but Dr. Esselstyn is more or less the guru on reversing heart disease with a whole foods plant-based diet (No Oil!).


*
 
7 weeks ago I went from a sedentary omnivore (near carnivore) to 100% vegan exercising daily. I do see improvements in many areas but I’m surprised my blood pressure seems to have remained the same.

I’m guessing the main suggestion will be to “talk to your doctor”, which I will, but they’ll probably just tell me to continue taking my pills (which I am) or up my dose! My goal is to get off this chronic pill merry-go-round!

Thoughts?
If you talk to your doctor here, in Russia, and tell him that you've gone vegan for health reasons, he will just say that you're crazy and you will die of malnutrition. Doctors aren't the same everywhere, and i've met a lot of understanding and educated ones too, but my only advise would be: continue to do your thing, stick to a whole-food plant-based vegan diet, and you'll see the improvements gradually. The key word is "gradually". Just don't get desperate because your blood pressure isn't improving too quickly,- because as a rule, it's among the last things that you'll feel, and you'll have to be patient. The diet has to be ultimately whole-food plant-based to give you any positive results in the nearest future. Perhaps, even you are not 100% aware of how damaged (or not) your arteries are (no one can be sure about the extent of the damage of their own arteries). The only thing i know is that your blood pressure normalization will take more time than it'll take for another improvements to reveal themselves.
I can only speak for myself, and 18 yrs ago, i went vegan for this exact purpose (the same as yours): my blood pressure was horrible and it was bothering me a lot (tbh, i was scared to death, because i was a 19y.o. female teen with the blood pressure of an old fat guy, presumably). After i adopted a vegan diet, it came back to normal, but surprisingly, my family anamnesis (which is fairly awful) is taking its toll on me, and i have to be more strict than other vegans to maintain normal blood pressure throughout my life. For example, any oil is very harmful for me (its malicious influence includes increase of blood pressure), therefore it's totally prohibited. Also, when i eat less raw veggies and more cooked food, problems begin once again.
Also, i'm not asking you if you're taking any vitamins and medicines, but i have to touch this issue at least. Pls, just keep in mind that there are a lot of common medicines that can raise blood pressure. I'll give my own examples again: vitamin B1, which seems to be benign, causes undesirable reactions in me when taken excessively (from any sourses besides food). Iodine is the one that you shouldn't overdo with either (i experienced high blood pressure after small 100mcg pills once a day, and this thing is real, i mean, i'm not the only one). In both cases i mean artificial sources of these vitamins. They both make my blood pressure go through the roof (and they can hide in multivitamins, so pls be very careful). Btw, what about B1,- my neurologist confirmed the possibility of developing this condition after B1 consumption, though in my case, those were injections of B1). In general, multivitamins is not a very good idea. You may be lacking of some element and be already overdosed with another one, so by taking multivitamins you'll probably do yourself harm. E.g. such vitamins as artificial vit.A and vit.C can cause a severe poisoning (i encountered an artificial vit.C poisoning once, and that was not fun!)
There are a lot of other "benign" medicines (like cough syrup) that can cause severe reactions, if they contain guaifenesin! (When i was little, i had no bad reactions to guafenesin, and could take Ascoryl syrup any time, but a year ago i developed such a bad reaction and my blood pressure raised so terribly high, that i thought i would have died). There is another one thing that shouldn't be taken under any circumstances: it's Cytoflavin! (Vile stuff. It will make your head explode).
So, the summary of my message is this: be patient, follow whole-food plant-based diet, no oil, minimum substitutes, no multivitamins (at least temporarily), and, of course, try and find a reliable brand of B12 pills (it's better to be methylcobalamin). I guess you know about this whole B12 thing.
P.S. don't take iron (ferrum) pills unless you have severe anemia,- this kind of iron (in pills as well as in meat) will damage your brain vessels (that's what happens to some meat-eaters who get too much iron from their food, and this exactly what happened to my co-worker, no kiddin',- her arteries were like rusty pipes, she got stroke, and she's not working now). So instead, get non-heme iron from vegan sources and eat it with products high in vit.C simultaneously. I believe, you'll be ok.:hug:

Regards, Ungh-shu.
 
I don't know how old you are, but for me, personally, I had to work very hard to get my blood pressure down to the point where medication was no longer required. EDIT: I see you are age 49. You are in that prime age group.

It sounds like you are doing the right thing with the diet aspect, but how much exercise are you getting, really? You say you are exercising daily, but to what end? This is where I fell short. I thought a WFPD would be enough alone, to be honest, but that is a real mistake I made. We all need exercise!

I also increased blood pressure lowering foods in my own diet, like your leafy greens, beans, oats, beets, and so many more. However, it wasn't until I started a regular cardio exercise routine before I was able to get off my BP medications. It took about a year from when I really started trying, as in exercising regularly, before I was off my meds.

With any kind of medical history, it's always a good idea to check with your doctor before starting a vigorous exercise program. They will want to keep an eye on things in case your meds need to be reduced and/or eventually eliminated.

I also suggest Dr. Esselstyn's book and videos on this subject. Dr. Greger is on the same page, and has great information, but Dr. Esselstyn is more or less the guru on reversing heart disease with a whole foods plant-based diet (No Oil!).


*
First, thank you ALL for being so helpful!

As I am new to this forum (and veganism in general) I don't know how much to share nor what exactly to share. Here I try to answer all of your questions:
* Age: 47
* Height: 6' 3"
* Weight: 281 lbs. (I tipped the scales at 299 lbs. in March.) As an aside, I almost need a new belt. I'm on the smalled hole right now. It is a little tight but I look forward to burning this belt (along with all my other "fat" clothes).
* Exercise: There is a trail around a small lake near my house. The whole trip is probably only 2'ish miles. However, the trail has several flights of stairs to navigate the terrain. I do this trail twice each morning. I've gotten fit enough that I can take the stairs 2 steps at a time now! According to my phone I end up with about 7,000 steps and 35'ish flights of stairs. I'm definitely sweating but I don't get to the point I'm out of breathe. To add to this, I *just* started going to the gym with my brother to lift free weights. I've only gone once but plan on going daily.
* Meds: I take 20mg Lisinipril (for high blood pressure), and clomiphene (or low testosterone). I also take a multivitamin (with no iron) each morning.
* Diet: Lucky for me I have very poor taste buds. This means I can eat the same thing day after day without tiring of it.
** Breakfast: I have a smoothy made of mixed greens, mixed berries, and almond milk each morning. I also will nibble on some cinnamon, raisin, oatmeal. (I tend to finish 2 cups of oatmeal every 2-3 days).
** Lunch: Typically I have a tortilla filled with refried beans, salsa, mixed greens, and whatever leftovers I find in the fridge.
** Dinner: Spaghetti with homemade sauce it typical for me. The sauce has freshly chopped veg and tomato paste.
In general, I eat when I am hungry and I eat enough to fill full. I'm sure I could lose weight faster by eating less but that might make this whole transition too cumbersome and I might start slipping. So, I've proudly NOT restricted my caloric intake.
* Blood Pressure: I have my own testing unit at home and I have taken it into my doctors office to be calibrated. It reads same as theirs. That said, my blood pressure isn't HORRIBLE. I tend to range systolic at 135-140 and diastolic at 75-90. (Even on my pills, which is what bothers me.) My goal is to be-rid myself of Lisinipril and maintain a 120/80 (or better) reading.

With all the positive changes I figured my blood pressure would plummet! Looking at a year-long graph of my readings and I can see a *small* improvement (about 10 points on sys and 10 points on dia). I'm sure there are MANY people on here with worse stats than mine. That doesn't mean I shouldn't improve too though.
 
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Yeah, health improvements can take time. Just keep exercising (a little more each day) and eating lots of fresh fruits and vegetables. IMO, fresh garlic tends to make a big difference. Maybe not for everyone, but it's something to try. I eat about a half bulb per day (cooked with other food).
 
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Thanks for all the good detailed info.

Sounds like you have taken a very smart and well-informed approach. You just need to be more patient.

Just one question. Have you lost any weight this year? I still think that is a much more useful metric.

Maybe I'm not that typical but I do take regular BP readings and just last month I saw readings from 106/65 to 134/81.

But since losing weight - my averages are lower. I'm not on medication and only once or twice did i ever get over 140. But anyway, as far as I'm concerned, it is hard for me to make any good conclusions about BP.

Oh, and @Veganite, I think 30 minutes (minimum) of daily exercise Is Part of the WFPB diet. Just like drinking water and eating flaxseeds. According to Dr. Gregar, you need 90 minutes of moderate or 40 minutes of vigorous.
 
Since we're talking BP readings, it should be mentioned that pulse pressure is at least half as important as the top number (systolic). Pulse pressure is the difference between the two numbers. You want that to be low.

So, perhaps counterintuitively, a higher dialostic reading can be a good thing. For example, 110/80 is healthier than 110/60. Lower pulse pressure means your body doesn't have to work as hard to circulate your blood.

Just an FYI for anyone who isn't already informed about this.
 
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Since we're talking BP readings, it should be mentioned that pulse pressure is at least half as important as the top number (systolic). Pulse pressure is the difference between the two numbers. You want that to be low.

So, perhaps counterintuitively, a higher dialostic reading can be a good thing. For example, 110/80 is healthier than 110/60. Lower pulse pressure means your body doesn't have to work as hard to circulate your blood.

Just an FYI for anyone who isn't already informed about this.

Did not know that.
 
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@Lou

Hmm, I didn't say how long you should exercise, as it is highly subjective. What works for me, might not work for you. As I stated, I had to work pretty darn hard before I saw improvements. Minimums and maximums are subjective guidelines that people create. Look at it this way, 30 minutes a day without sweating is not the same as even 15 minutes of vigorous cardio, where you increase heart-rate, and sweat. It's the quality of exercise that counts the most.

All I meant by vigorous is that it shouldn't be easy. You need to sweat and increase your cardio, breathing, etc. Going for a casual bike ride down the boardwalk would not be what I call vigorous, but might classify as exercise to someone else. Not that there's anything wrong with cycling, but again, you need to challenge yourself. If it's easy and you're not increasing your cardio, it's not nearly as beneficial.

@daxm

I think if you stick to your plan, eat a proper WFPBD, as prescribed by Dr. Esselstyn, you will see results. Your exercise routine sounds adequate to me. You don't want to be out of breath, but you should be pushing yourself a bit each time. Again, with high blood pressure, monitor all of this carefully, and with your doctor.

As everyone has said, be patient, it will come! You are on a journey, so enjoy it every step of the way. I believe as you continue to lose weight and exercise, the numbers will eventually plummet. I'd suggest keeping a journal of your progress, so you can keep a close eye on it.

*
 
First, thank you ALL for being so helpful!

As I am new to this forum (and veganism in general) I don't know how much to share nor what exactly to share. Here I try to answer all of your questions:
* Age: 47
* Height: 6' 3"
* Weight: 281 lbs. (I tipped the scales at 299 lbs. in March.) As an aside, I almost need a new belt. I'm on the smalled hole right now. It is a little tight but I look forward to burning this belt (along with all my other "fat" clothes).
* Exercise: There is a trail around a small lake near my house. The whole trip is probably only 2'ish miles. However, the trail has several flights of stairs to navigate the terrain. I do this trail twice each morning. I've gotten fit enough that I can take the stairs 2 steps at a time now! According to my phone I end up with about 7,000 steps and 35'ish flights of stairs. I'm definitely sweating but I don't get to the point I'm out of breathe. To add to this, I *just* started going to the gym with my brother to lift free weights. I've only gone once but plan on going daily.
* Meds: I take 20mg Lisinipril (for high blood pressure), and clomiphene (or low testosterone). I also take a multivitamin (with no iron) each morning.
* Diet: Lucky for me I have very poor taste buds. This means I can eat the same thing day after day without tiring of it.
** Breakfast: I have a smoothy made of mixed greens, mixed berries, and almond milk each morning. I also will nibble on some cinnamon, raisin, oatmeal. (I tend to finish 2 cups of oatmeal every 2-3 days).
** Lunch: Typically I have a tortilla filled with refried beans, salsa, mixed greens, and whatever leftovers I find in the fridge.
** Dinner: Spaghetti with homemade sauce it typical for me. The sauce has freshly chopped veg and tomato paste.
In general, I eat when I am hungry and I eat enough to fill full. I'm sure I could lose weight faster by eating less but that might make this whole transition too cumbersome and I might start slipping. So, I've proudly NOT restricted my caloric intake.
* Blood Pressure: I have my own testing unit at home and I have taken it into my doctors office to be calibrated. It reads same as theirs. That said, my blood pressure isn't HORRIBLE. I tend to range systolic at 135-140 and diastolic at 75-90. (Even on my pills, which is what bothers me.) My goal is to be-rid myself of Lisinipril and maintain a 120/80 (or better) reading.

With all the positive changes I figured my blood pressure would plummet! Looking at a year-long graph of my readings and I can see a *small* improvement (about 10 points on sys and 10 points on dia). I'm sure there are MANY people on here with worse stats than mine. That doesn't mean I shouldn't improve too though.
Have you tried hibiscus tea? it's just the hibiscus flowers, steeped in hot or cold water. I discoved it long before I knew of any benefits, I just liked the taste-it's sorta berry-tart. I was drinking maybe 16 oz a day iced. I was becoming increasingly light headed and had to have a friend take me to the urgent care. My normallyu low BP was way down! Thankfully the doc thought to ask about anything new I was eating drinking or supplementing, and immediately pointed out the hibicus was know to lower BP, and advised for those with hypertension. Try it, it steeps quickly in cold water. I found it at a discount store (Marcs in Ohio) for $2 a box of 20 bags. You can also find it loose.
 
Our bodies work to maintain "homeostatis," meaning keeping everything the same. This is why it can take some time to lose weight or lower your BP - your body's first response to change is to counter the effect by trying to keep everything the same. That's completely natural, and it's influenced by your genes just like everything else, which is one reason for the variety among people.

That process is definitely playing a role here.

The other thing to consider is that there could be something contributing to the hypertension beyond diet and exercise. There could be another health issue influencing things. A healthy diet and exercise help with almost everything, but look for other issues to - stress, other health conditions, chronic pain, etc.

My BP shot through the roof when I had untreated chronic pain (a long time ago). It dropped to the best ever reading when I cut out caffeine and alcohol and lowered my stress levels. Small, seemingly extraneous things can a difference.
 
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Since we're talking BP readings, it should be mentioned that pulse pressure is at least half as important as the top number (systolic). Pulse pressure is the difference between the two numbers. You want that to be low.

So, perhaps counterintuitively, a higher dialostic reading can be a good thing. For example, 110/80 is healthier than 110/60. Lower pulse pressure means your body doesn't have to work as hard to circulate your blood.

Just an FYI for anyone who isn't already informed about this.
I sometimes wonder what people mean when they say they exercise. many are kidding themselves.
possibly. In my case it is hiking approx 4 miles that includes 35 flights of stairs, in less than 1 hour. I’m definitely sweaty at the end.