Human faeces contain vitamin B12

This is sloppy reporting. The author left out a number of things - may be to make the story more interesting. but The story would be just as interesting if he included all the pertinent info.

There is no mystery about why our site for absorption is the small intestine but the site for the production is the large intestine. This is how it is all mammals. Cows have a more complicated intestinal system where food travels from the large intestine all the way back to the mouth and then back down again. so the B12 gets produced in the large intestine but then goes around and thru the small intestine. Horses have something similar.

Apes and chimps are not totally vegetarian. both apes and chimps eat bugs. The requirement for B12 is so small - so that even infrequent eating of bugs satisfies it.

Apes have been observed in captivity to eat their own feces, too. this might be because they don't get enough bugs in captivity. or maybe they do that in the wild, too but we haven't observed it.

Rabbits are an interesting case study. their bodies are not big enough to support a large and complicated GI systems like horses and cows. but they have the same issue as all mammals: they need B12 but the site for production is after the site for absorption. they solve it by regularly eating their own feces.

 
  • Like
Reactions: Vegan Dogs
This is sloppy reporting. The author left out a number of things - may be to make the story more interesting. but The story would be just as interesting if he included all the pertinent info.

There is no mystery about why our site for absorption is the small intestine but the site for the production is the large intestine. This is how it is all mammals. Cows have a more complicated intestinal system where food travels from the large intestine all the way back to the mouth and then back down again. so the B12 gets produced in the large intestine but then goes around and thru the small intestine. Horses have something similar.

Apes and chimps are not totally vegetarian. both apes and chimps eat bugs. The requirement for B12 is so small - so that even infrequent eating of bugs satisfies it.

Apes have been observed in captivity to eat their own feces, too. this might be because they don't get enough bugs in captivity. or maybe they do that in the wild, too but we haven't observed it.

Rabbits are an interesting case study. their bodies are not big enough to support a large and complicated GI systems like horses and cows. but they have the same issue as all mammals: they need B12 but the site for production is after the site for absorption. they solve it by regularly eating their own feces.

Even eating plants directly from the dirt will cover B12 needs, as the soil where animals live contains so much feces, as well as animal decay
 
Even eating plants directly from the dirt will cover B12 needs, as the soil where animals live contains so much feces, as well as animal decay
I've heard that repeated many times. but I can find no evidence that it is true. (or false for that matter)

But even if it was true. eating dirt, or contaminated water, or even our own feces - those things do have a lot of bacteria. They may even have B12 producing bacteria. But it's probably more likely to make you sick.

There are so many diseases that humans can get from feces and contaminated water.

"Human excreta and the lack of adequate personal and domestic hygiene have been implicated in the transmission of many infectious diseases including cholera, typhoid, hepatitis, polio, cryptosporidiosis, ascariasis, and schistosomiasis."

 
  • Like
Reactions: Vegan Dogs
I've heard that repeated many times. but I can find no evidence that it is true. (or false for that matter)

But even if it was true. eating dirt, or contaminated water, or even our own feces - those things do have a lot of bacteria. They may even have B12 producing bacteria. But it's probably more likely to make you sick.

There are so many diseases that humans can get from feces and contaminated water.

"Human excreta and the lack of adequate personal and domestic hygiene have been implicated in the transmission of many infectious diseases including cholera, typhoid, hepatitis, polio, cryptosporidiosis, ascariasis, and schistosomiasis."

Did I forget that disclaimer? :rofl:
"Always wash produce at the risk of contaiminationa"



Not vegans eating their own poop, but getting the poop of ruminant animals. like cows
 
Did I forget that disclaimer? :rofl:
"Always wash produce at the risk of contaiminationa"



Not vegans eating their own poop, but getting the poop of ruminant animals. like cows
I have no intention of eating unwashed roots or faeces. Sups are fine. Vegeyeast is also a clean source my dogs and cat get the pet one I take a capsule and sprinkle engevita for me nutty flavour
 
There are people since antiquity who were on vegan diets or described that way before supplementation or knowledge of this or other vitamins. Ghandi, if I'm not mistaken, adopted such a diet, he didn't due fir lack of supllements. Of course these were usually people who had very ascetic lifestyles so one can wonder if it applies to the general population.
 
There are people since antiquity who were on vegan diets or described that way before supplementation or knowledge of this or other vitamins. Ghandi, if I'm not mistaken, adopted such a diet, he didn't due fir lack of supllements. Of course these were usually people who had very ascetic lifestyles so one can wonder if it applies to the general population.

That is not the whole story :


''Gandhi was born into a vegetarian household, but he always aspired to be vegan. He tried veganism as a young adult but, after suffering severe health issues, he was forced to change course.

“Experience has taught me that in order to keep perfectly fit, [a] vegetarian diet must include milk and milk product such as curds, butter, ghee, etc.,” Gandhi wrote in his book, “The Moral Basis of Vegetarianism.” “I excluded milk from my diet for six years. … But in the year 1917, as a result of my own ignorance, I was laid down with severe dysentery. I was reduced to a skeleton, but I stubbornly refused to take milk or buttermilk. … I could have had in mind only the milk of the cow and buffalo; why should the vow prevent me from taking goat’s milk?”

According to Lytwyn, highly restrictive diets such as veganism can be done, but they require vitamin supplements and nutritional planning.''

 
  • Like
Reactions: fakei
That is not the whole story :


''Gandhi was born into a vegetarian household, but he always aspired to be vegan. He tried veganism as a young adult but, after suffering severe health issues, he was forced to change course.

“Experience has taught me that in order to keep perfectly fit, [a] vegetarian diet must include milk and milk product such as curds, butter, ghee, etc.,” Gandhi wrote in his book, “The Moral Basis of Vegetarianism.” “I excluded milk from my diet for six years. … But in the year 1917, as a result of my own ignorance, I was laid down with severe dysentery. I was reduced to a skeleton, but I stubbornly refused to take milk or buttermilk. … I could have had in mind only the milk of the cow and buffalo; why should the vow prevent me from taking goat’s milk?”

According to Lytwyn, highly restrictive diets such as veganism can be done, but they require vitamin supplements and nutritional planning.''

Thanks had the idea that Gandhi had became a vegan in addition to fasting once a week. The story he tells in his autobiography, which unfortunatelly hadn't fully read, is slightly different from the one you quote. In the chapter A Warning, in which he retracts from something he had written in the past i.e. that milk is only suited for babies, and that a person can secure nourishment for the tissues from grapes and almonds, he mentions that latter there was an error in diet while in recruiting campaign in India that laid him low. He mentions the inability to rebuilt his "shattered constitution" without milk. He does however strongly disencourage people from giving up milk unless they find it beneficial in every way or unless they are advised by experienced physician.

And in the book you mention he seems to have a much more positive view on veganism than the author you quote.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Vegan Dogs
Where is the option to ignore threads? I can’t find it...
😜
 
  • Haha
Reactions: shyvas
I've heard that repeated many times. but I can find no evidence that it is true. (or false for that matter)

But even if it was true. eating dirt, or contaminated water, or even our own feces - those things do have a lot of bacteria. They may even have B12 producing bacteria. But it's probably more likely to make you sick.

There are so many diseases that humans can get from feces and contaminated water.

"Human excreta and the lack of adequate personal and domestic hygiene have been implicated in the transmission of many infectious diseases including cholera, typhoid, hepatitis, polio, cryptosporidiosis, ascariasis, and schistosomiasis."


What I've always read is that before modern sanitation methods, we either acquired immunity to common bacteria found in water and on our food, or it killed us. The healthy people were resistant to the bacteria and getting B12 from it, which made it easier for them to be vegans, compared to today.

I need to look this up and find sources.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Vegan Dogs and Lou
What I've always read is that before modern sanitation methods, we either acquired immunity to common bacteria found in water and on our food, or it killed us. The healthy people were resistant to the bacteria and getting B12 from it, which made it easier for them to be vegans, compared to today.

I need to look this up and find sources.

I think that is definitely true to some extent. And mother's pass on the templates to fight diseases to their children when they carry them or in their breast milk. So we are born or quickly acquire immunity to many diseases.

In the time period between needing sanitation and acquiring it - millions died of cholera, diarrhea, dysentery, hepatitis A, typhoid, and polio. You and I are NOT immune to any of those things at birth.

Keep in mind that veganism is a modern invention. Early Greeks and Early Hindi were just some sort of vegetarians.

If anyone is better at the google machine than me - see if you can find a research paper or scientific report that shows you get B12 from the bacteria living in water or soil. I've looked and can't find it. I do remember reading something years ago that stated that getting B12 from soil and water is a myth and gave some good reasons. (but I can't find that either).
 
I remember a thread on this topic back in the days of the old Vegan Forum. :D Gross. Lol.
 
I think that is definitely true to some extent. And mother's pass on the templates to fight diseases to their children when they carry them or in their breast milk. So we are born or quickly acquire immunity to many diseases.

In the time period between needing sanitation and acquiring it - millions died of cholera, diarrhea, dysentery, hepatitis A, typhoid, and polio. You and I are NOT immune to any of those things at birth.

Keep in mind that veganism is a modern invention. Early Greeks and Early Hindi were just some sort of vegetarians.

If anyone is better at the google machine than me - see if you can find a research paper or scientific report that shows you get B12 from the bacteria living in water or soil. I've looked and can't find it. I do remember reading something years ago that stated that getting B12 from soil and water is a myth and gave some good reasons. (but I can't find that either).
Here--I trust Dr Michael Klaper as a verifiable source-


"In earlier times, humans acquired vitamin B12 in the same way. Our ancestors spent most of their daytime hours foraging for foods and most of their calories came from roots and tubers pulled up from the ground. Those plant parts were eaten without first being washed in (modern-day) chlorinated drinking water. As a result, humans ingested bacterial B12 from the surface of root vegetables, just as the grazing animals did (and do).
When humans were thirsty, they would drink their fill from a stream and, in so doing, swallowed more B12-producing organisms in the stream water. Later, when wells were dug, vitamin B12 was present in almost every bucket of well water."
 
What I've always read is that before modern sanitation methods, we either acquired immunity to common bacteria found in water and on our food, or it killed us. The healthy people were resistant to the bacteria and getting B12 from it, which made it easier for them to be vegans, compared to today.

I need to look this up and find sources.
Have some doubts about this theory. Pre modern sanitation generations were very careful about washing and boiling things. And in antiquity people of all ages often drinked wine mixed with water the entire day. Wine was used for breakfast mixed with grains. In my country soups of wine and bread, probably a remnant of this tradition, were given to children untill not so long ago.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Urban Gardener
David3 in post 12 from another topic mentions what might have been a good source of B12, and that is water. People were cooking with it and drinking it so there would be a high consumption.

In the book Journey to The West BTW don't remember Tripitaka accepting anything but plant foods. And with the high rates of lactose intolerance in Asians probably vegetarians would tend to be vegans. But if the above stands then the mystery of where they got B12 is solved.
 
Last edited:
But alcoholic beverage consumption is relatively recent! Before that, I suspect we ate fermented fruits and still enjoyed alcohol. But it is an urban / agricultural development. And it's not universal.

Most of the world's population is lactose intolerant. Lactose tolerance was developed in a few areas where people were using dairy as a food source.
 
  • Like
Reactions: fakei
But alcoholic beverage consumption is relatively recent! Before that, I suspect we ate fermented fruits and still enjoyed alcohol. But it is an urban / agricultural development. And it's not universal.

Most of the world's population is lactose intolerant. Lactose tolerance was developed in a few areas where people were using dairy as a food source.
Well, it depends on what you consider recent. :)
But archeologists have found evidence of fermentation as far back as 9000 years ago.

I think what Fakei was referring to was Middle ages stuff. In Europe, in the middle ages water was pretty much always contaminated. People would add a little wine to their water. the alcohol in the wine would kill the bacteria in the water.