How can I make myself care about farm animals?

[Deadliftguy69]

In every logical way possible, I know and agree that eating meat is immoral. I've had heated arguments with other meat eaters about the issue and then at some point I usually mention that I also eat meat and they're like "what..."

Even though I logically know eating meat is wrong I can't seem to develop an emotional attachment to the cause, which makes it extremely difficult to go through with becoming vegan/vegetarian. It's akin to a person who knows they need to start working out and losing weight, but they just don't have enough of an emotional attachment to the goal to be able to deal with the hardships associated with accomplishing it.

When I think of animals being slaughtered and killed for the petty pleasure and convenience I get from consuming them, it's so obviously overwhelmingly terrible yet I just don't feel any actual emotions attached to that logical process. Even though I wish I did.

What can be done?

 

[Hog]

A ten-step plan for pursuing a vegan lifestyle.

Step One: Take your time when going vegan. Start out by giving up the most unhealthy animal products such as ground beef and bacon. Put your health first. After a few weeks, you can move on to step two.

Step Two: Give up the animal products that you feel are unappetizing. I always believed that fish smelled and tasted like something that was rotting on the beach for a couple of hot summer days. Now you have an excuse not to eat fish. Enjoy the moment of giving up something you do not want in the first place. After a few weeks, you can move to step three.

Step Three: Try out vegan ice cream, hot dogs, and milk. Also, buy yourself a couple of Impossible Whoppers. In the name of research, you might need to try out all types of vegan junk food. You might feel like you are giving up anything at all after trying the vegan versions of animal products.

Step Four: Look up "{accidentally vegan food" on Google. You might be pleasantly surprised.

Step Five: Some animal products are absolutely toxic. Cheese is a prime example. The combination of grease and salt is deadly. You need to stay healthy. Avoid it. Please remember that going vegan is about you in the beginning. If you really need cheese, then buy the cheapest vegan version you can. Do not eat the super cheep cheese directly. Mix it with something like refried beans. You will never know the difference.

Step Six: You might feel socially uncomfortable about being vegan with the family during the major holidays. Do not put yourself through any embarrassment. Eat the meat. Just eat fewer animal products. You can contemplate the social difficulties about going vegan a few months later. Rember being vegan is about you in the beginning.

Step Seven: This part is repulsive. I do not recommend it for everyone. Yet, it worked for me. Watch lots of graphic farm animal cruelty videos on Youtube. Turn up the volume and hear the animals scream. Sure, you might feel the need to puke and cry simultaneously.

Step Eight: If you must eat animals, then do the following: Wash your hands immediately after you touch raw animal products. Believe it or not, there is a legally acceptable level of animal poop in your meat. Food poisoning is a serious risk to your health.

Step Nine: This is embarrassing. My home was filled with roaches and flies before I went vegan. Those little critters will come from long distances to eat the animal products in your home. Any little residue will make them happy. After I went vegan, insects stopped visiting me. It was a night and day difference for me.

Step Ten: I absolutely 100% guarantee that you will make mistakes and slip up. You might find that you are hungry and desperate after a long day at work. Show me a self-righteous vegan and I will show you a lonely person. You can still get an "A" for effort.

 

[Lou]

[QUOTE="Deadliftguy69, post: 415922, member: 8559"

What can be done?
[/QUOTE]

In a real sense, you have taken the first step.
What is that saying? the first step in fixing a problem is realizing that there IS a problem.

Have you ever heard of the term cognitive dissonance?
IMHO, all meat-eaters are victims of CD to one degree or another. Most won't eat puppies but will eat chicken by the bucket load.

Vegans talk about living in harmony with their values. And many of them benefit in (surprising) ways from doing so. you probably heard the claims. less anxiety, better sleep, more focused, clearer skin, more energy....

try it. you might like it.

 

[nobody]

Have you tried watching hidden camera footage filmed by undercover animal rights activists of what happens on factory farms and slaughterhouses? There is tons of such footage on YouTube.

^Step 7

 

[Danielle]

When transitioning into veganism sometimes the cravings can be too strong, it gets easier to deal with.
I see it as they want to live as much as I do, I don’t think what I feel is an actual attachment towards the farm animals. What I feel attachment for are pet rats, they’re cute and I love cuddling and petting them. I’m not attracted to a cow or pig in that way, but they are living creatures with a desire to live and enjoy life.

 

[Emma JC]

welcome to the forum @Deadliftguy69

You have come to a great place for answers.

I have not watched every documentary out there regarding animal cruelty and farming and yet I have watched enough such that whenever I see a truck full of pigs, chickens or cows on the highway my eyes fill with tears and my heart hurts.

I would suggest starting with the easier ones to watch like What the Health and Game Changers (this one should be right up your alley) and then work your way up to Cowspiracy, Dominion and Earthlings. A couple of others are Forks over Knives, Food Inc..

Earthling Ed on Youtube is also great to watch as he spends his time discussing veganism with non-vegans and presents some very powerful arguments and listening to them over and over makes them stick.

We look forward to your transition and so do the animals, the environment will thank you and your health will improve.

Emma JC

 

[beancounter]

Not trying to sound mean, but either you have empathy, or you don't.

It's not something that can be learned, although I have known people who were good at faking it.

 

[Lou]

Not trying to sound mean, but either you have empathy, or you don't.

It's not something that can be learned, although I have known people who were good at faking it.

I disagree.
Few of us were born vegan. and few of us became vegan right after we learned that animals were killed to make our lunch.

Can Empathy Be Taught?

Research shows that empathy is a powerful social tool. Can it be learned?

www.psychologytoday.com

Children learn empathy growing up, but can we train adults to have more of it?

Some people are good at understanding the emotions of others but not at feeling them or commenting on them. So can we teach people the parts they lack?

theconversation.com

What is empathy and how do you cultivate it?

Our brains may be wired to empathize more with people who look like us, but being more empathetic starts with just listening.

www.nbcnews.com

 

[beancounter]

If you have to "learn" empathy, you never had it in the first place. That's why I mentioned that people learn to fake it.

If seeing suffering doesn't tug on you heart strings without coaching/training, then it's just not part of your psychological make up.

 

[David3]

Almost everyone has empathy. It's just that people aren't brought up to extend that empathy towards farm animals. That was certainly true of me.

Deadliftguy - I didn't really feel a genuine empathy for farm animals until after I became vegan. I became vegan because I rationally understood that meat-eating requires unnecessary violence, and I didn't want to be part of that. Later, after I'd been vegan for a couple of months, my brain "shed its callous" towards farm animals.

If you're a big meat fan, a convenient way to try meatless living is to eat meat-substitutes for a couple of weeks. As a Canadian, you have many excellent meat substitutes at your local supermarkets. "Beyond Meat" and "Impossible Meat" are hyper-realistic meat-substitutes that should be sold near you. The "Field Roast" products company makes very realistic meatless sausages - you should be able to find them at a local supermarket, or health foods store. You can eat them in sandwiches, or chop them up for pasta and soups.
.

 

[Lou]

If you have to "learn" empathy, you never had it in the first place. That's why I mentioned that people learn to fake it.

If seeing suffering doesn't tug on you heart strings without coaching/training, then it's just not part of your psychological make up.

I still disagree. Empathy is a natural human condition. Not even just a human condition because many animals seem to possess it. I'll include some links that show empathy is a natural condition. It is probably a necessary trait for any social animal. It probably evolved in animals millions of years ago as a survival trait.

I'll give you this. Social conditioning by parents, our cruel and unjust society, and our messed up educational system can go a long way to interfere with our "empathy channels".

Most 3rd graders after reading Charlotte's Web swear off bacon (and killing spiders) till their parents "reassure" them that its "OK".

I think it was Dr. Melanie Joy, in a TED talk, described elementary school students aversion to meat after visiting a working farm.

The Evolution of Empathy

We tend to think of empathy as a uniquely human trait. But it’s something apes and other animals demonstrate as well, says primatologist Frans de Waal. He shows how our evolutionary history suggests a deep-rooted propensity for feeling the emotions of others.

greatergood.berkeley.edu

The complexity of understanding others as the evolutionary origin of empathy and emotional contagion - Scientific Reports

Contagious yawning, emotional contagion and empathy are characterized by the activation of similar neurophysiological states or responses in an observed individual and an observer. For example, it is hard to keep one’s mouth closed when imagining someone yawning, or not feeling distressed while...

www.nature.com

https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/2019/06/11/empathy-is-decline-this-country-new-book-describes-what-we-can-do-bring-it-back/

 

[Nekodaiden]

In every logical way possible, I know and agree that eating meat is immoral. I've had heated arguments with other meat eaters about the issue and then at some point I usually mention that I also eat meat and they're like "what..."

Even though I logically know eating meat is wrong I can't seem to develop an emotional attachment to the cause, which makes it extremely difficult to go through with becoming vegan/vegetarian. It's akin to a person who knows they need to start working out and losing weight, but they just don't have enough of an emotional attachment to the goal to be able to deal with the hardships associated with accomplishing it.

When I think of animals being slaughtered and killed for the petty pleasure and convenience I get from consuming them, it's so obviously overwhelmingly terrible yet I just don't feel any actual emotions attached to that logical process. Even though I wish I did.

What can be done?

You do not need to develop an emotional attachment to go vegan. It may not be the motivating factor for you, and that is o k. I can think of 2 people just on this forum (whom shall remain nameless) who have a passion for animal rights and/or empathy but their feelings weren't enough to slam temptation/get over a habit. There are vegans out there (some influential ones included) who cannot/will not accept that whatever motivates them may not motivate everyone. It is not necessary to treat veganism as some sort of religion, nor is it necessary to flood yourself with animal slaughter videos in the hopes that your tears will be enough to say "no" next time temptation presents itself.

Find what works for you. For me, it was a whole slew of factors.

 

[Sax]

What can be done?

Visit a rescue farm and personally interact with the animals that you find on your menu. Learn the animals' backstories and their personality quirks. Seeing them as individuals, and how they can flourish with proper care, ought to help stir some emotion.

Penny Lane Farm Sanctuary is just outside Ottowa. Their site says as of May 3 they're still closed to the public due to covid, but hopefully they'll open their doors again soon.

 

[Deadliftguy69]

Almost everyone has empathy. It's just that people aren't brought up to extend that empathy towards farm animals. That was certainly true of me.

Deadliftguy - I didn't really feel a genuine empathy for farm animals until after I became vegan. I became vegan because I rationally understood that meat-eating requires unnecessary violence, and I didn't want to be part of that. Later, after I'd been vegan for a couple of months, my brain "shed its callous" towards farm animals.

If you're a big meat fan, a convenient way to try meatless living is to eat meat-substitutes for a couple of weeks. As a Canadian, you have many excellent meat substitutes at your local supermarkets. "Beyond Meat" and "Impossible Meat" are hyper-realistic meat-substitutes that should be sold near you. The "Field Roast" products company makes very realistic meatless sausages - you should be able to find them at a local supermarket, or health foods store. You can eat them in sandwiches, or chop them up for pasta and soups.
.

I actually just went to A&W today and tried a Beyond Meat burger for the first time. If I didn't know it was vegan I'd have had no idea it wasn't meat.

I think it'll take some preparation, i'm a competitive athlete so I have to make sure that I have everything strategically planned out for the first while to avoid relapsing. When you're 100g of protein short for the day and it's already 7:00pm the easiest way to get that in is to throw a pound of ground beef on the frying pan. Not that that's justifiable, but those are the kinds of road-blocks that will make relapse happen.

I just think if I did have an emotional attachment to the issue, it would be easier to resist those temptations in times of necessity (or extreme convenience). Otherwise, If I feel like I need meat i'll just end up saying "Ehh, **** it it's just one more".

Some of the other replies seem helpful as well. I think it would help me to visit actual cows and pigs at real farms and see them as individuals with their own personalities just like how my cats are different. We have a family friend who owns a small hobby farm with chickens and a couple pigs. Might be a good idea to go spend more time over there.

 

[Emma JC]

I actually just went to A&W today and tried a Beyond Meat burger for the first time. If I didn't know it was vegan I'd have had no idea it wasn't meat.

When you're 100g of protein short for the day

May I ask how much protein you feel you must consume in a day?

A few great vegan body builders you may wish to check out, Nimai Delgado, Jon Venus, Brian Turner, Derek Simnett and if you watch Game Changers you will be introduced to many more amazing athletes. None of them seem to have any issues eating enough protein.

From watching all these athletes that eat plant-based I have learned that one of the benefits, for them, is a much shorter recovery time as their bodies don't have to deal with the inflammation that occurs from eating animal flesh.

Wishing you all the best in your journey.

Emma JC

 

[Lou]

It has been my experience that almost all athletes overestimate their protein needs.

A study suggested that established bodybuilders need around 0.48 g of protein per pound of body weight per day (1.05 g/kg).* (Incidentally, it also found that bodybuilders required 1.12 times and endurance athletes required 1.67 times more daily protein than sedentary controls.) For an 180-lb. athlete the 0.48 g/lb. figure is 90 grams (360 calories from protein). For a 3000-calorie diet, that's 12% of calories from protein. And again, vegetables average 22% and beans 28%.

"Ingesting more protein than necessary to maintain protein balance during training (e.g., >1.8 g/kg/d) does not promote greater gains in strength or fat-free mass."**

-https://michaelbluejay.com/veg/protein.html
* Influence of protein intake and training status on nitrogen balance and lean body mass. Tarnopolsky MA, MacDougall JD, Atkinson SA. J Appl Physiol. 1988 Jan;64(1):187-93
**17.5 Effects of protein and amino acid supplementation on athletic performance, Kreider RB, Sportscience 3(1), 1999

Another point that involves some more recent research is the absorbability and utilization of protein. The newest research concludes that only about 30 grams of protein can be absorbed and utilized per meal.

Three meals a day would be about 90 grams of protein a day.

And yes I realize that this is somewhat debatable.

-https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/a3k55z/is-there-really-a-limit-to-how-much-protein-you-can-absorb-in-one-sitting

 

[beancounter]

In every logical way possible, I know and agree that eating meat is immoral. I've had heated arguments with other meat eaters about the issue and then at some point I usually mention that I also eat meat and they're like "what..."

Even though I logically know eating meat is wrong I can't seem to develop an emotional attachment to the cause, which makes it extremely difficult to go through with becoming vegan/vegetarian. It's akin to a person who knows they need to start working out and losing weight, but they just don't have enough of an emotional attachment to the goal to be able to deal with the hardships associated with accomplishing it.

When I think of animals being slaughtered and killed for the petty pleasure and convenience I get from consuming them, it's so obviously overwhelmingly terrible yet I just don't feel any actual emotions attached to that logical process. Even though I wish I did.

What can be done?

Keep in mind, that you do not have to be an animal rights activist to be a vegan. While that is the most popular reason, there are also environmental, religious and health vegans. Your Username would seem to suggest that you are health oriented.

And there is nothing wrong with that.

 

[silva]

I don't like cows, never did. Growing up my relatives had a dairy farm in the country and I absolutely loved to visit! But not the cows. I loved the fields, the climbable trees, the berry bushes, their dogs and cats that could roam freely. The cows would be out most of the time and never bothered me. I just didn't connect with them, kinda scared me a bit. Anyway, I saw the milking barns and it was wrong wrong wrong. I never wanted them to be corraled inside to have the tubes attached. I honestly have no idea what happened to the calves. They would be out in fields with the moms, I don't recall them being taken away.
I'm not at all fond of cows, but that has no bearing on considering them unimportant. I used to carry a picture of a cow and calf when I'd think of having cheese. Moms should never ever be treated as commodities, no one should
I'm hardly a sensitive type, you don't need to love someone to want them to have their own lives and be treated kindly

 

[David3]

I actually just went to A&W today and tried a Beyond Meat burger for the first time. If I didn't know it was vegan I'd have had no idea it wasn't meat.

I think it'll take some preparation, i'm a competitive athlete so I have to make sure that I have everything strategically planned out for the first while to avoid relapsing. When you're 100g of protein short for the day and it's already 7:00pm the easiest way to get that in is to throw a pound of ground beef on the frying pan. Not that that's justifiable, but those are the kinds of road-blocks that will make relapse happen.

I just think if I did have an emotional attachment to the issue, it would be easier to resist those temptations in times of necessity (or extreme convenience). Otherwise, If I feel like I need meat i'll just end up saying "Ehh, **** it it's just one more".

Some of the other replies seem helpful as well. I think it would help me to visit actual cows and pigs at real farms and see them as individuals with their own personalities just like how my cats are different. We have a family friend who owns a small hobby farm with chickens and a couple pigs. Might be a good idea to go spend more time over there.

You might find it useful to make a (phone) appointment with a Registered Dietitian who specializes in sports nutrition and in vegetarian nutrition. In Canada, you can find a local Registered Dietitian through the Dietitians of Canada: https://members.dietitians.ca/DCMember/s/find-dietitian?language=en_US
.

 

[Andy_T]

Step Ten: I absolutely 100% guarantee that you will make mistakes and slip up. You might find that you are hungry and desperate after a long day at work. Show me a self-righteous vegan and I will show you a lonely person. You can still get an "A" for effort.

That one can be avoided by stocking some vegan comfort foods.

Depending on what you like, vegan crisps, gummy bears, ice cream, chocolate or whatever might do the trick.

If you have to cheat, make sure you cheat with vegan comfort foods.