Hope for Vegans in Jesus

spirit2change

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Meow. Meow. It was the sound of a cat! I was still young, maybe in my preteen or early teenage years, and I really liked animals so I naturally got very excited. We lived in an old house and it sounded like the meowing was coming from one of the bathrooms. I went into the bathroom and this particular bathroom had an old metal grate in the floor that allowed ventilation to come from the crawl space beneath the house. I pulled the metal grate away and sure enough I saw a little orange cat down below. She was meowing in distress as if she were lost. I reached down through the hole and was delighted that the cat didn't try to run away. I picked her up into my arms and we instantly became like family. My mother liked cats and allowed us to keep her, so that day we gained a new household pet.

It was perhaps several years later that our cat got hit by a car. She couldn't stand up and I was very concerned whether she would survive or not. My mother and I brought her to a veterinary hospital where she stayed overnight and underwent surgery. The reason she's willing to pay for the surgery, my mother explained, was because she could tell I cared about the cat so much, and was willing to help care for her. When we finally got news back from the veterinarian, I was happy to hear that she would survive, and I had to keep her in a large wooden crate and nurse her back to health until she could walk again. Her pelvis was broken and her tail would need to be amputated because it was dragging along the ground and she couldn't raise it or move it anymore. She eventually healed and developed a way of walking or hopping rather like a bunny rabbit. She had only a stump of a tail left but she was full of life.

The years went by and our cat got older along with me and eventually we noticed we didn't see her outside anymore. We searched the neighborhood but couldn't find her. So after many months, it became apparent that she most likely wouldn't come back. She may have been eaten by a coyote, or perhaps struck by another car, or maybe died from old age. Have you ever felt someone was so precious that you knew they weren't meant to simply die and be gone forever? That's how I feel about our cat. When my grandmother passed away, I felt the same way. Did you know that God feels that same way about us? Not only has he known us our whole lives, he also created us:

Please read Psalm 100:3.

Since he made us he doesn't want us to die:

Please read 2 Peter 3:9.

When a car breaks, or a computer, we can bring it back to the manufacturer who is able to rebuild and refurbish it. Doctors can only do so much to heal a person or pet who is ill or deteriorating from age. But God, the potter who made us is able to to raise us up again even after we perish. He can bring us back to life, and as a testimony he raised his own son back to life:

Please read 1 Corinthians 15:1-8.

Paul told the inhabitants of Corinth that over five hundred witnesses saw Jesus, at the same time, after he was resurrected. James his brother saw Jesus also, and his own brother could hardly mistake him. Peter who is the friend of Jesus also saw Jesus after he died and rose again, and wrote plainly they were eyewitnesses and were not telling fables:

Please read 2 Peter 1:16.

To whoever has ears to hear, I am writing this so that you also may come to know Jesus the messiah and our creator in whom alone we may be raised up to life again. So that you may know God's love for us, and may have eternal life where you may see those you care about again. Your pets or family members or close friends. In this thread I hope to present the teachings of Jesus from the bible and especially address questions which members of the vegan community may have:

Do pets go to heaven?
What does Jesus teach about eating meat?
What is the healthiest diet for people?
Will we ever live in a world where everyone is vegan?
Where did people come from in the beginning?
What is the meaning of life?
How do we determine right from wrong?
How can I receive eternal life?
Is there such a place as hell?
Will Jesus return to earth?
How may my sins be forgiven?
What is the mark of the beast?

You, dear reader may ask questions if you are sincerely wanting to understand God's word:

Please read Jeremiah 29:13.

I greatly appreciate your readership and being allowed use of this forum as a way of communicating with others.

Sincerely

Josef
 

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Thank you, Josef, for being brave enough to post this. That alone gives me hope.
Because God loves us, I choose to think that, at least some, pets will be in heaven.
Jesus ate fish certainly on a regular basis and lamb for Passover. I am sure he also ate lots of lentils, vegetables, olive oil, bread, and some fruits. Given the lack of pollution, I believe even the occasional lamb he ate was not unhealthy.
In today's polluted world, vegan is most likely best for the majority of people.
I do believe my sins are forgiven through Jesus and that He will return.
We know right from wrong by reading the Bible.
As for the mark of the beast, I do not know, but whatever it is, there will be sophisticated technology behind it.

Be well. Stay safe. Blessings from above to you and yours.

Ginny Bates
 
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I think if god existed animals would not be tortured every second.

But god does exist. He exists in the minds of far too many people. And one of the main reasons he is there is that people cannot accept their own existences coming to a finality. Perhaps you have a pet reason for explaining such a strange phenomenon as an afterlife?

I understand that there are far more atheists in the vegan community than there are believers. This perhaps could be explained by vegans having better thought processes than the general population. Whoops, didn’t mean to sound off as being superior!

Not so long ago I posted my second favourite religious joke. Unfortunately no one took the bait and asked for my top one. So, here it is, also stolen from Irish playwright Dominic Behan:

“Are ye catholic or protestant?”
“I’m an atheist.”
“Aye, but are ye a catholic atheist or a protestant atheist?”

Roger.
 

spirit2change

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Hi Ginny,

It is wonderful to hear you believe your sins are forgiven through Jesus and he will return! That is a blessed promise we are given by Jesus.

As we look for answers to questions, we will also be studying the Bible to learn the verses that support the answers. That is part of today's topic: how we can trust the Bible.

Thank you, I hope you remain safe as well. And I hope we may eat fruits and veggies to boost our immune systems! God bless you!


To All,

Thank you for reading and joining us as we learn about Jesus!

There was once a man who went to a marketplace full of foreigners, and these foreigners spoke a different language. The man looked like a shopping tourist and some of the foreigners spoke rude comments about him in their own language, thinking he would not understand. Then the man suddenly began speaking fluently in the foreigners' language. The foreigners realized the visitor had understood their rude comments and they felt guilty, but were soon relieved that the man was being friendly and speaking graciously to them despite this. As he continued talking, the foreigners were amazed that he spoke their language so fluently, even better than them. They had never met someone from outside their small province who spoke their language, and this man looked so different from them. They asked him why he had taken interest to learn their language since their province was so small and far away. As the conversation went on, the foreigners ended up asking the man if he could teach them his language as well.

Please read Psalms 115:3-5.

The Bible talks about how some of us make idols, which are religious statues often made with gold or silver. These statues have ears but they don't hear anything. And they have mouths but they never say anything.

God created us people with ears and tongues. Since God gave us ears, can't he hear? And since he gave us tongues to speak with, can't God also speak?

Please read Deuteronomy 5:1-6.

We read in these verses that God spoke with all the people of the nation of Israel at mount Horeb, which is also called mount Sinai. God reminds the people gathered around the mountain that they were slaves in Egypt, but God led them into freedom. God's grace and love for us makes him want to help us. These events took place during the time of Moses, who lived from about 1526 to 1406 B.C. The whole nation of Israel heard God speak directly to them with his voice, and this was a central experience that shaped the Jewish nation for all the years to come. So God truly can speak, as witnessed by thousands of people.

I once met a vegan chef who did not speak a word. At first, I thought maybe he was missing a tongue or had a neurological issue. Later I learned that he is able to speak any time he wants, but had taken a vow of silence. Meanwhile he learned to communicate effectively just by using gestures of his hands and body. Just because someone doesn't speak with their voice, it doesn't mean they're not capable of speaking. And it doesn't mean they're not communicating in some other way.

About 1,400 years after God spoke with the people of Israel on mount Horeb, Jesus was born and had multitudes of people following him because he was miraculously healing all types of diseases. Jesus went up to a mountain, sat down and taught his disciples.

Please read Matthew 5:1-12.

Notice in verse 12 that Jesus confirms that there are prophets.

Please read 2 Peter 1:21.

In the verse above we learn what prophets are. God uses prophets to communicate with people.

Please read Luke 24:25-27.

After Jesus was resurrected, he told his disciples that the scriptures (meaning the Bible) were written by prophets who spoke about Jesus himself.

For example, before Jesus was born, God foretold that he would be born in Bethlehem. Micah was a prophet who lived from 751 to 690 B.C.:

Please read Micah 5:2.
(Luke 2:1-7 describes the fulfillment of this prophecy how Jesus was born in Bethlehem.)

Psalm 22 was written by David who lived about 1040 to 970 B.C. This psalm (like a poem) describes how Jesus would die:

Please read Psalm 22:14-18.

This Psalm describes Jesus hands and feet being pierced as he was nailed to the cross and his bones out of joint from hanging there. It describes how the Roman soldiers gambled (cast lots) for his clothes. It describes how after he died the Romans pierced his side with a spear and abdominal fluid poured out. As well as other details.

Isaiah was a prophet who lived about 766 to 686 B.C.

Please read Isaiah 53:8-12.

Isaiah chapter 53 describes Jesus life and death including how he was taken a prisoner and died with the wicked (he was crucified next to two thieves) but was then buried in a wealthy man's tomb. Isaiah also foretells that Jesus would die for our sins, to reconcile us back with God. All of this happened.

There are many other amazing prophecies in the Bible. Since prophets in the old days foretold of Jesus, and Jesus did miracles and confirmed the prophets spoke about himself, we can be assured that the Bible is the word of God. When we don't know who to trust, we know we may trust Jesus teachings in the Bible. So when we answer questions about Jesus we want to be sure our answer comes from the Bible and is supported by many verses.

God speaks to us through the Bible. If you want to learn from God who created you, please pray a prayer like this and continue to study the Bible:

Dear God who created me, I believe you want to forgive me and teach me and give me everlasting life. Please teach me the truth about the Bible. I ask in Jesus name. Amen.

I am grateful for your readership and may God set you free from whatever storms you are caught in! Let us remember that Jesus loves us.

Sincerely,

Josef

P.S. the Bible has been translated into English many times, and if you are unsure which translation to read, I would recommend the King James Version (KJV).
 
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GinnyB

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Ah, Josef. You have done it again!
A beautiful message of hope to all who would read seriously.
I wish I had your courage to express my beliefs as eloquently and proudly as you do.

I will happily continue to eat my fruits, grains, beans, and veggies, as I know you are. God has blessed us with this abundance.
Joy and blessings to you and yours, Josef!

Ginny in SC
 
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I'm a vegan and a Christian. Although I came to both in adulthood, I was saved before I took on vegan morals. I think, actually, veganism is supported by Christianity. Looking at Genesis, God's original intention was for all animals to live off of plants...carnivores and animal eaters did not exist before sin entered this world. Given that many Christians look to God's original design for marriage, work, and our relationship with Him, it doesn't seem strange to me that we should look to that for our diet, as well. Afterall, we were literally designed to be herbivorous! Humans thrive on plants and animal products fuel disease within our bodies. Throughout the Bible, I also see many verses in which God is angry about animal death or suffering. He cares about all of his creatures, although it is clear that the Bible is about people and for people, and therefore centers around us.

All that being said, I don't see enough Biblical evidence to support that not being vegan is a sin. God commands animal sacrifice in the Old Testament (though Jesus deems it no longer necessary), Jesus eats animals at least once, and Peter is commanded by God to eat "unclean" animals when staying with another believer. With that in mind, it tells me that it's not my place to judge someone who's not vegan as being less aligned with God's will. When I go to heaven, I can ask God what He intended! Just as I am feminist - and believe that to be ethically correct - I don't judge Christians who clearly aren't feminist as being any less close to God than I am. It's God's place to judge, not mine.

There are a lot of ethical grey areas within Christianity, I think. The Bible depicts cultures and time periods which often don't translate easily to modern times, and there isn't always a straightforward answer to modern day ethical quandaries. "Modern" slavery was different to the slavery in the Bible and animals are now exploited and abused to a degree unimagined a thousand years ago. Women were not afforded equal rights throughout the Bible, but does that make modern day feminism sinful? I don't think so. I don't think these dilemnas give us the right to pick and choose what we like from the Bible - it is all God's word - but I think we must consult the Holy Spirit, meditate, and use discernment.
 

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But god does exist. He exists in the minds of far too many people. And one of the main reasons he is there is that people cannot accept their own existences coming to a finality. Perhaps you have a pet reason for explaining such a strange phenomenon as an afterlife?

I understand that there are far more atheists in the vegan community than there are believers. This perhaps could be explained by vegans having better thought processes than the general population. Whoops, didn’t mean to sound off as being superior!

Not so long ago I posted my second favourite religious joke. Unfortunately no one took the bait and asked for my top one. So, here it is, also stolen from Irish playwright Dominic Behan:

“Are ye catholic or protestant?”
“I’m an atheist.”
“Aye, but are ye a catholic atheist or a protestant atheist?”

Roger.

It’s possible to talk about your beliefs without insulting the intelligence of those whose beliefs differ from your own.

Your post is bigoted.
 

spirit2change

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Hi again Ginny! I hope you are well. If we would like others to read seriously and have hope, would you pray with us that God would let people read and have faith through what we write? He is looking for laborers to enter the harvest. And we may always remember that we may plant and water but God gives the increase. So then neither is he that plants any thing, neither he that waters, but God who gives growth. (As in 1 Corinthians 3:6-7.) Your prayers and encouragement are very helpful! Thank you.


Hi Chicken Mamma Love, you are vegan and Christian! Perhaps we may hear your testimony some time, as well as Ginny's, about how Jesus has changed your lives. I see you are going back to Genesis as the foundation of beliefs, which records some of the earliest events in history. We will be going back to some of the earliest events in the bible to gain wisdom.


To All,

Thank you dear reader for reading. We previously learned from the bible how God may speak and has spoken in times past. And he certainly desires to teach us things.

Please read James 1:5-7.

So as we begin studying, let us pray: Heavenly father would you please teach us wisdom through your word? We ask in Jesus name. Truly!

Please read 1 John 4:8.

Why does God want to teach us? Because he loves us! That's right. Wisdom is a blessing which is described as more valuable than silver, choice gold or rubies. God is eternal and existed before you or I, so there is certainly much he can teach us about the past.

Please read Nehemiah 9:6.

In the beginning God made heaven above and he also made angels. In this verse the angels are called the "host of heaven". Angels are ministering (serving) spirits as described in Hebrews 1:13-14. The word "angel" means messenger. What message did these angels give? The angels abide in God's love and they send their messages of love in return to God! The verse from Nehemiah says God preserves the angels meaning he protects and cares for them because he loves them. And the angels return this love as they raise their voices in lofty songs of worship. The verse says the host of heaven worships God their creator. This means they treasure God and count him worthy of adoration. The word worship is related to the word worthy. Is it worth-ship.

Please read Matthew 18:10.

Jesus confirmed to us that angels are real.

A company called Boston Dynamics recently created a robotic dog named "Spot" that's designed to help with construction or dangerous jobs. It walks on four legs and can navigate uneven terrain and climb stairs. It's also programmable, so people can program it to do new "tricks". Is there anything Spot can't do?

A friend of mine likes dogs and had one of her big fluffy pets trained as a therapy animal. Therapy dogs are real dogs that might visit human patients in hospitals and warm their hearts by providing companionship and doggy kisses, as dogs often lick people's faces. Dogs are known to be wonderful and affectionate animals.

Now what if we asked someone to program Spot the robotic dog to love people? Could it be done? The programmers might scratch their heads and wonder how that could be done. Spot might be programmed to do motions like follow people or lick them with a robotic tongue. But there would not be any love involved. It would only be a machine carrying out programmed instructions. Spot would not offer love any more than a can opener or a space shuttle. Replace the robotic tongue with a blade and instead of seeming to love people, Spot would seem to harm them. It would not know the difference and would operate mechanically without any regard or emotion for people.

Now let us take one more look at real dogs. A young girl was playing in the front yard while her mommy was watching through the window of the house. From out of nowhere, a wandering dog came and gripped the young girl by the leg with its teeth. The girl began to scream and bleed as the dog attempted to drag her away likely to be his next meal. Then also from out of nowhere, the loyal household cat appeared and charged bravely at the dog which was several times its size. The vicious dog released the girl as the cat attacked and chased the dog away. The cat then returned to the girl to provide protection as mommy ran from the house to bring her to a hospital. This true incident was recorded on video camera.

From this we may learn something of the nature of love. Love is something that cannot be programmed or forced but must be given freely. Love requires free will. But with free will comes also a risk not loving.

One married man said his wedding day was so special to him because his bride chose to say "I do" when she had the freedom to say "I don't".

When God created the angels he decided to make a creation where love is possible so the angels were given free will. The angels freely offered to give their love back to God for his kindness.

But there was one angel who stopped returning God's love.

Please read Ezekiel 28:11-14.

These verses tell us of a cherub who is here titled the king of Tyrus. This cherub (a type of angel) is described as being created as a beautiful being in the beginning. He was supposed to enjoy a relationship of love with God like the other angels.

Please read Ezekiel 28:15-19.

Verse 15 states that this cherub was created perfect by God, but because of his free will he became proud and haughty and filled with violence. God then cast him out of heaven.

Please read Isaiah 14:12-15.

Here again this same cherub is described. We are told his name was Lucifer which means light-bearer. Lucifer desired to exalt himself higher than God his creator. He desired worship instead of God.

Please read Revelation 12:7-9.

Because of Lucifer's rebellion, a war broke out in heaven. Lucifer was renamed to Satan, which means adversary. Some of the angels followed Satan in rebellion, and these fallen angels along with Satan were eventually cast to the earth. Satan and other fallen angels are now termed devils or demons.

The verse also says Satan deceives the world. His goal is to misrepresent the character of God and blind people's minds so they cannot know the good and loving character of God who is full of grace and truth. It was to remove this dark shadow and reveal the infinite love of God that Jesus came to live among people.

Please read Luke 10:18.

Jesus confirmed that this is true, and said he saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven.

Please read Matthew 11:29.

Jesus beckons us to learn from him and be meek and lowly in heart.

Please read Mark 12:28-31.

God desires us to obey his perfect law of love.

Please pray with me:

Dear God, please protect us from the lies of the adversary and let us know your truth. Help us to love you and our neighbors and ourselves. We ask in Jesus name. Amen.

Thank you for reading and let us continue to learn of Jesus and walk as he walked! God bless you!

With Affection,

Josef
 

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Hello again, Josef

My husband and I read a Bible passage each evening and pray. We thank God each day for His blessings and help. This adds tremendously to our daily lives, especially in these troubled times. My prayer is that more and more individuals will seek Him and His Son Jesus.
Thank you again for your comforting words. Health, safety, and God's love to you and yours.

Ginny in SC
 

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But god does exist. He exists in the minds of far too many people. And one of the main reasons he is there is that people cannot accept their own existences coming to a finality. Perhaps you have a pet reason for explaining such a strange phenomenon as an afterlife?

I understand that there are far more atheists in the vegan community than there are believers. This perhaps could be explained by vegans having better thought processes than the general population. Whoops, didn’t mean to sound off as being superior!

Not so long ago I posted my second favourite religious joke. Unfortunately no one took the bait and asked for my top one. So, here it is, also stolen from Irish playwright Dominic Behan:

“Are ye catholic or protestant?”
“I’m an atheist.”
“Aye, but are ye a catholic atheist or a protestant atheist?”

Roger.
Religion is a form of delusion. The con sumption of animals is also a delusion, if most of us weren't mislead about how meat and dairy gets into our homes then far more people would be vegan. As McCartney once said: "If slaughterhouses has glass walls everyone would be a vegetarian." I don't think I entirely agree with that quote but one thing is for sure, when you start to see the truth in one way, you also see it in other ways. It is, therefore, not surprising to find many vegan atheists.
 

Ahimsa

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Religion is a form of delusion. The consumption of animals is also a delusion, if most of us weren't misled about how meat and dairy gets into our homes then far more people would be vegan. As McCartney once said: "If slaughterhouses had glass walls everyone would be a vegetarian." I don't think I entirely agree with that quote but one thing is for sure, when you start to see the truth in one way, you also see it in other ways. It is, therefore, not surprising to find many vegan atheists
 

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Religion is the proof that advertisement works. Nobody has ever seen the product being sold, but everyone believes that it's the best.

What a thought! I couldn’t agree more. The same argument explains how a rubbish product like Coca-Cola became the most consumed trademarked drink in the world.

It also explains how so many Americans can apparently actually believe that their presidential election was stolen from them through fraud. They keep being told this. They want to believe it. It must be true.


Religion is a form of delusion.

Which leads me into my third most favourite religious joke of all time:
When one person is delusional, it’s called insanity.
When many people are delusional, it’s called religion.

Ahimsa: I love your avatar. It brings back many memories. We once had a Border terrier who lost one of his hind legs in a car accident. He got around perfectly well because when running it is the front legs that take most of the strain. I suspect that your dog might have a few more problems.

Roger.
 
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Religion is a form of delusion. The con sumption of animals is also a delusion, if most of us weren't mislead about how meat and dairy gets into our homes then far more people would be vegan. As McCartney once said: "If slaughterhouses has glass walls everyone would be a vegetarian." I don't think I entirely agree with that quote but one thing is for sure, when you start to see the truth in one way, you also see it in other ways. It is, therefore, not surprising to find many vegan atheists.

Maybe atheism is the delusion:
 
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What a thought! I couldn’t agree more. The same argument explains how a rubbish product like Coca-Cola became the most consumed trademarked drink in the world.

It also explains how so many Americans can apparently actually believe that their presidential election was stolen from them through fraud. They keep being told this. They want to believe it. It must be true.




Which leads me into my third most favourite religious joke of all time:
When one person is delusional, it’s called insanity.
When many people are delusional, it’s called religion.

Ahimsa: I love your avatar. It brings back many memories. We once had a Border terrier who lost one of his hind legs in a car accident. He got around perfectly well because when running it is the front legs that take most of the strain. I suspect that your dog might have a few more problems.

Roger.
He's great going uphill as he has rear drive, but going down is more difficult. He has a pram now, for when he gets tired.
 

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Religion is the proof that advertisement works. Nobody has ever seen the product being sold, but everyone believes that it's the best.
I think that way about Marxists. They promise a workers’ paradise sometime in the future. While we wait Marxists provide dictatorship and mass murder.

 
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