EU Homemade B12 vitamin possible?

avalon

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There is myth that Vitamin B12 can be acquired only by eating animal based products however in reality cobalamin or methylcobalamin is produced by specific bacteria such as lactobacillus reuteri to name a few and our ancestors would get it by drinking from natural water sources or eating not sterile plant food with traces of soil and bacterial contamination.

I suspect I may be deficient B12 or just need to sure I got plenty enough so I was searching for methylcobalamin supplements and even when looking for cheapest powders cost really high, 1g of methylcobalamin for 30Eu is best dial so far. On other hand very small B12 vitamin required to take per day and high doses such as 1000mcg are wasteful so it would be necessary to dilute it in water.

So I got idea of producing B12 on my own just not sure how reliably to do it. I make own kvass/beer fermented drink so maybe adding probiotic bacteria could work out? In this case which organisms produce most efficiently methylcobalamin? Or maybe it can be simply extracted from rich soil?

The most commonly used microorganisms for B12 production are following — Propioni bacterium freudenreichii, Pseudomonas denitrificans, Bacillus megaterium and Streptomyces olivaceus.

Streptomyces griseus, a bacterium once thought to be a yeast, was the commercial source of vitamin B12 for many years . The bacteria Propionibacterium shermanii and Pseudomonas denitrificans have now replaced S. griseus. At least one company, Rhone Poulenc Biochimie of France, is using a genetically engineered microorganism to produce B12.

Vitamin B12: Vegan Sources

For microorganisms to produce cobalamin cobalt element is required. It might be naturally occurring but to be sure it’s good idea to add supplements. To my knowledge lithium batteries use cobalt so these two beneficial metals could be used as supplement? Glucose is the most commonly used carbon source for large scale manufacture of vitamin B12.

Microbial Production of Vitamins: An Overview

Clams were reported to have highest levels of B12. They lack the complex neural structure and consciousness so killing them shouldn’t be immoral?
 

Lou

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There is myth that Vitamin B12 can be acquired only by eating animal based products

Wow. a lot of stuff to unpack here. I have to get going, and I'm not an expert on some of this stuff, but i wanted to get in my reply before everyone else jumps in.

I think the ways you think our ancestors got B12 is The Myth. I can probably find the material to reference later if you call me on it. but yes B12 is created by bacteria that live in the soil. But the B12 is not in the soil.

Primates have a place in their gut where they can absorb B12. Our guts also have the bacteria that can produce the bacteria. Unfortunately, the place we can absorb the B12 is before the place where B12 is produced. This is actually true in herbivores too but they have solved it by having guts that flow both ways.

We are not the only omnivore with this issue. Chimps and gorillas get the B12 they need form things like bugs, grubs, and ants. And if hard pressed they will eat their own feces which contains B12. Rabits Have to eat their own feces in order to get B12.

1000mcg is not wasteful. It turns out that the receptor we have for b12 is not very "wide". It can only absorb like 25% to 35% of the RDA of B12 at a time. Then it needs a few hours to 'reset". Until it resets its only can absorb about 1% of what is available. That is why you see supplements that is either 25- 50% of the RDA. Or 1000 x the RDA.
As it turns out, the reset period is about the time period between meals. So one way to make sure you get enough B12 is to eat a fortified food 3 - 4 times a day.

Producing B12 is not a home hobby kind of thing. There are so many things that go wrong when growing bacteria. Contamination is very likely.

Besides B12 is pretty cheap. When I used to buy supplements I think they cost something like $2 a month.

Now I rely on fortified soy milks and a daily vitamin.

Clams are really high in B12. I think I remember reading that one or two bowls of clam chowder a month is all you would need (our bodies can store months worth of B12). There are some vegans (they call themselves bivalve vegans) eat shellfish because they don't think they are "real" animals. However, any biologist will tell you that bivalves DO react to stimuli from the environment. I'm sure they don't feel pain the same way we do - but they must feel something. and the problem with bivalve vegans is where do you draw the line. Which animals are ok? If clams are Ok, then what about Arachnids, insects, and worms? Hardly anyone is proposing vegans eat those. So my guess is that motivation that bivalve vegans have is simply that they want to. (Oysters taste good). Since we Do Not have to eat bivalves to thrive - then we should not. At least not until someone discovers what clams think about getting eaten.
 
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silva

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Lou is correct- especially about B12 being nothing to play around with!
Adults up to 65 need 2000 mcg once a week. I take a liquid supplement every Sat. After 65 it is recommended to take 1000 daily.
Cyanocobalimin is the only form that is stable. If you're taking another, you can't determine it's potency. Cyano is stable for years.

 
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avalon

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Cyanocobalimin has poor bioavailability unlike other B12 forms. Methylcobalamin is considered to be most absorbable and cheapest B12 form. Not sure about stability, but maybe storage in freezer or vacuum can prolong it's shelf life? I'm curious where clam themselves get B12.

Soil is rich source of B12, especially with manure:

 

David3

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Cyanocobalimin has poor bioavailability unlike other B12 forms. Methylcobalamin is considered to be most absorbable and cheapest B12 form. Not sure about stability, but maybe storage in freezer or vacuum can prolong it's shelf life? I'm curious where clam themselves get B12.

Soil is rich source of B12, especially with manure:


Hi Avalon,

It may be possible to cultivate vitamin B12, but how would you measure its potency?

Although cyanocobalamin may not be well absorbed, B12 vitamin pills contain a higher dose of B12, to compensate.

Veganhealth.org (authored by vegan registered dietitian Jack Norris) recommends that adults of your age take these doses of B12 (choose one of these options):
  • 2.0 - 3.5 micrograms, twice daily OR
  • 25 - 100 micrograms, once daily OR
  • 1000 micrograms, twice weekly
Link: Daily Needs

I personally take 1000 micrograms twice weekly. It sounds like a lot, but bear in mind that 1000 micrograms is only 1 milligram.

Here is a 1 year supply of cyanocobalamin B12 tablets, for only 14 Euros: Buy Solgar Vitamin B12 1000Mcg (Cyanocobalamin) 100 Chewable Tablets Deals on Solgar brand. Buy Now!! . 1000 microgram chewable tablets, bottle of 100 tablets (2 tablets per week).
 
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David3

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Clams are really high in B12. I think I remember reading that one or two bowls of clam chowder a month is all you would need (our bodies can store months worth of B12).

3 ounces of raw clams contain a 4-day dose of vitamin B12 (if a person could absorb it all): Nutrition Facts For Clams (Raw) . I don't think that 1 or 2 bowls of clam chowder contain a month's supply of B12 (unless it's a really big bowl).
.
 

David3

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For microorganisms to produce cobalamin cobalt element is required. It might be naturally occurring but to be sure it’s good idea to add supplements. To my knowledge lithium batteries use cobalt so these two beneficial metals could be used as supplement? Glucose is the most commonly used carbon source for large scale manufacture of vitamin B12.

It's much cheaper, and much safer, to take pre-prepared vitamin B12 supplements. You can buy a 1 year's supply of cyanocobalamin for less than 14 euros: Buy Solgar Vitamin B12 1000Mcg (Cyanocobalamin) 100 Chewable Tablets Deals on Solgar brand. Buy Now!! . This company ships to 100 countries worldwide.

I don't see any safe way to use batteries to make nutritional supplements.
.
 
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David3

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200 calories of clams (not clam chowder) have 5000% of the DV of B12 (1)

1 - Top 10 Foods Highest in Vitamin B12 (Cobalamin)

This is disturbing. The same nutrition data website (www.myfooddata.com) is referenced both by your article and by my post, yet that website reports completely different vitamin B12 data for 3 ounces of clams. The myfooddata.com website says that 3 ounces of raw clams contain 400% DV of vitamin B12, but that 3 ounces of cooked clams contain 3502% DV of vitamin B12. A very serious error by that website. How can cooked clams contain 8 times more vitamin B12 than raw clams? Vitamin B12 is not created during the cooking process. I will inform the myfooddata.com website of their error. This error is, of course, academic to us vegans.

Update: The error in is the USDA's nutrition database, which is referenced by the myfooddata.com website. I've contacted the USDA ARS about the error.
.
.
 
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silva

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Remember that the farther apart you consume B12 the much more you need. Dr Greger suggests 50 mcg one a day, but 2000 mcg once a week
.

The take away should be--take a supplement, regularly. Let the researchers get the fact based data out there, this is too great a need to test on yourself, and the implications dire.
 
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fakei

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Wow. a lot of stuff to unpack here. I have to get going, and I'm not an expert on some of this stuff, but i wanted to get in my reply before everyone else jumps in.

I think the ways you think our ancestors got B12 is The Myth. I can probably find the material to reference later if you call me on it. but yes B12 is created by bacteria that live in the soil. But the B12 is not in the soil.

Primates have a place in their gut where they can absorb B12. Our guts also have the bacteria that can produce the bacteria. Unfortunately, the place we can absorb the B12 is before the place where B12 is produced. This is actually true in herbivores too but they have solved it by having guts that flow both ways.

We are not the only omnivore with this issue. Chimps and gorillas get the B12 they need form things like bugs, grubs, and ants. And if hard pressed they will eat their own feces which contains B12. Rabits Have to eat their own feces in order to get B12.

1000mcg is not wasteful. It turns out that the receptor we have for b12 is not very "wide". It can only absorb like 25% to 35% of the RDA of B12 at a time. Then it needs a few hours to 'reset". Until it resets its only can absorb about 1% of what is available. That is why you see supplements that is either 25- 50% of the RDA. Or 1000 x the RDA.
As it turns out, the reset period is about the time period between meals. So one way to make sure you get enough B12 is to eat a fortified food 3 - 4 times a day.

Producing B12 is not a home hobby kind of thing. There are so many things that go wrong when growing bacteria. Contamination is very likely.

Besides B12 is pretty cheap. When I used to buy supplements I think they cost something like $2 a month.

Now I rely on fortified soy milks and a daily vitamin.

Clams are really high in B12. I think I remember reading that one or two bowls of clam chowder a month is all you would need (our bodies can store months worth of B12). There are some vegans (they call themselves bivalve vegans) eat shellfish because they don't think they are "real" animals. However, any biologist will tell you that bivalves DO react to stimuli from the environment. I'm sure they don't feel pain the same way we do - but they must feel something. and the problem with bivalve vegans is where do you draw the line. Which animals are ok? If clams are Ok, then what about Arachnids, insects, and worms? Hardly anyone is proposing vegans eat those. So my guess is that motivation that bivalve vegans have is simply that they want to. (Oysters taste good). Since we Do Not have to eat bivalves to thrive - then we should not. At least not until someone discovers what clams think about getting eaten.
With all due respect but either the RDA doses are incorrect or the absorption theories. How could people in the past who were short on animal products and sometimes only made one or two meals a day, not necessarily containing animal products, absorb the RDA not only of B12 but of other nutrients? Unless the supplements industry has been writing the dietary guidelines, along with the dairy industry and the rest.
 

David3

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With all due respect but either the RDA doses are incorrect or the absorption theories. How could people in the past who were short on animal products and sometimes only made one or two meals a day, not necessarily containing animal products, absorb the RDA not only of B12 but of other nutrients? Unless the supplements industry has been writing the dietary guidelines, along with the dairy industry and the rest.
.
Our ancestors may have also obtained vitamin B12 from drinking water. Before modern water sterilization, all natural bodies of water contained some fecal contamination: Determining the source of fecal contamination in recreational waters - PubMed
.
 
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fakei

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