Hi, i come in peace

Paul Bradford

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Hi
(DEEP INTAKE OF BREATH), I am a farmer, I provide food of all sorts to the population, you might have eaten some of my potatoes or some of the bread that has been made from my wheat. I don't expect any of you will have eaten any of the beef that I supply, but that's fair enough, I wouldn't expect you to have done.
Anyway, my intention is not to ruffle any feathers, but I hope I am allowed to state my case if I read something that I know to be inaccurate, or at least enter healthy debate if we dissagree. Also if any of you have any questions by all means feel free to ask away.
 

Lou

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Welcome to the forum.
It doesn't sound like you run a factory farm so I think everyone here is in support of you.
 
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Welcome to the forum! All I can hope is you're at least conscious of your impacts on the planet and choose to do right where you can. Seeing that you grow different crops is a good sign. Industrial monoculture is also a blight on this world.

I for one am open to differing viewpoints, hence why I am now vegan. Factually backed and intelligent debate and discussion is a good thing. More people need to be willing to engage in it.
 

Paul Bradford

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I am not sure who has had the biggest impact on the planet TBH, me as a farmer, or the other 7 billion that I feed? Certainly living in the countryside with my crops and my animals I feel closer to nature than I do when I visit the city , but a lot more folk seem to prefer the concrete jungle. Each to their own, I say.... what do you do for a living @Three Chickpeas
 
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I am not sure who has had the biggest impact on the planet TBH, me as a farmer, or the other 7 billion that I feed? Certainly living in the countryside with my crops and my animals I feel closer to nature than I do when I visit the city , but a lot more folk seem to prefer the concrete jungle. Each to their own, I say.... what do you do for a living @Three Chickpeas
The 7 billion, but every action reaps benefit. Every individual we can get to make conscious decisions will wake up the world. Right now, we need individuals, but there will be a tipping point when those that act with disregard for the planet will be in the minority. Hopefully, we'll still have an inhabitable planet left.

Unfortunately, I am stuck in office work until I can afford to 'retire' to my food forest and pour more time into it. As the individuals are responsible for their actions, I grow what food I can. Local, organic, permaculture. Its not enough, but unfortunately I have to make money to live 'in society.' I can only dream of a world where I can make a decent living doing what I want at the scale I desire.
 

Paul Bradford

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Its interesting that despite your views you consider it more important to maintain your lifestyle in society than to follow your beliefs and adopt a more holistic way of life
 
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Its interesting that despite your views you consider it more important to maintain your lifestyle in society than to follow your beliefs and adopt a more holistic way of life
I don't have a 'lifestyle' in society. I'm about as withdrawn as I can be while still providing for my family. Thanks to a mortgage and taxes I must continue working.

The day the mortgage is paid off and I have enough to maintain utilities and taxes off investments I am out. The mortgage is a choice, but you have to 'own' the land to work it, and taxes are something you can't escape unless you want to go to prison. If it weren't for my family I probably would have disappeared into the wilderness and become one of those Mountain Men.
 

Paul Bradford

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As an outsider looking in, from what you say you want to spend the first part of your life exploiting the planet in order to provide yourself with the opportunity to live the final part in the manner that you feel is true to your beliefs, and you are in the transitional stage of achieving that aim? Is that correct?
 
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As an outsider looking in, from what you say you want to spend the first part of your life exploiting the planet in order to provide yourself with the opportunity to live the final part in the manner that you feel is true to your beliefs, and you are in the transitional stage of achieving that aim? Is that correct?
All humans exploit the planet in some form for survival. Coinciding with veganism, the point is to do less harm. I can assure you my "exploitation" is on the very low end for the Western world. Daily decisions go into creating as little waste as possible, consuming as little as possible, and doing the least damage as possible. With that mindset, you'd be amazed at how much waste/destruction someone can prevent in a setting where consumption is celebrated. Most of my efforts tend to be influencing and cleaning up after others. If I didn't, who would? That in itself is one of the saving graces of being stuck in an office.

It's still not where I thrive, so yes, I do my duty here until I can be where I wish.
 

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As an outsider looking in, from what you say you want to spend the first part of your life exploiting the planet in order to provide yourself with the opportunity to live the final part in the manner that you feel is true to your beliefs, and you are in the transitional stage of achieving that aim? Is that correct?
If your point was to come here and to elevate blood pressures then you certainly have succeeded with me.

You were welcomed here by two members of the forum and welcomed kindly. You then took that and turned it on its head by acting in a judgmental and unkind manner. I am not going to argue any points as I am sure that @Three Chickpeas is quite capable however please do not accuse anyone of exploitation. It must be a giant farm that you have if you provide food for 7 billion people and it includes potatoes, wheat and cows.

Emma JC
 

Paul Bradford

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If your point was to come here and to elevate blood pressures then you certainly have succeeded with me.

You were welcomed here by two members of the forum and welcomed kindly. You then took that and turned it on its head by acting in a judgmental and unkind manner. I am not going to argue any points as I am sure that @Three Chickpeas is quite capable however please do not accuse anyone of exploitation. It must be a giant farm that you have if you provide food for 7 billion people and it includes potatoes, wheat and cows.

Emma JC
I am sorry if I have come across in that way, it is a problem with the typed word compared to the spoken word.
@Three Chickpeas offered a welcome, including an invitation to enter into an exchange of views, apart from farming I have an interest in people and like to enquire about lifestyles and life choices, I don't judge and have an open mind to listen to others views, in conversation this involves asking questions and listening to answers, which often then lead onto other questions.
As for my farm, it is only 200 acres, I was of course speaking of the farming community as a collective, and in fact we are a business and will always strive to produce what the consumer wants, from the resources that we have.
 

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@Paul Bradford

If you really want some insight into veganism, may I suggest you watch "Cowspiracy" on Netflix. Cowspiracy will give you some science based facts on what impact factory farming has on the environment.

In fact, I recommend "What The Health" and "Forks over Knives" too.

You want to understand why vegans are vegan? Another documentary I would suggest "Earthlings" which you can find on Youtube.

I'd be very surprised if you watched all these documentaries and felt the same way. What do you have to lose by watching them?
 

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"from the resources that we have."

And this is the point from which I would ask:
How much longer will you continue to consider other living, sentient beings a "resource" from which you will profit?
Have you considered the ethics involved in your perception?
Have you considered the necessity of it?

Essentially you say that you will provide people with what they want from what you have...
Why must "what you have" include animals?

Most of us here do not believe that any of the above is essential. Having animals and using them as a resource is a decision, not a necessity.

I would also recommend the above documentaries. I would be interested in your opinions after you have viewed them (really viewed them - not just skimmed).
 

Paul Bradford

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"from the resources that we have."

And this is the point from which I would ask:
How much longer will you continue to consider other living, sentient beings a "resource" from which you will profit?
Have you considered the ethics involved in your perception?
Have you considered the necessity of it?

Essentially you say that you will provide people with what they want from what you have...
Why must "what you have" include animals?

Most of us here do not believe that any of the above is essential. Having animals and using them as a resource is a decision, not a necessity.

I would also recommend the above documentaries. I would be interested in your opinions after you have viewed them (really viewed them - not just skimmed).

The primary resource that I have is the ground that I farm (I am a tenant farmer, not a landowner), I use the ground to produce food for the people that have chosen to leave the countryside and make a living in the cities. My market is dictated by the consumer demand, I adjust my business and follow that demand.
My land is mainly grade 2, which means it is capable of growing grass, cereals and root crops, rainfall is good, and the animals maintain good fertility in the soil. although not organic, I avoid using chemicals as much as possible. If animals were not part of my system chemical fertiliser would be a necessity.
 

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@Paul Bradford
I hope you are pleasantly surprised by the level of intellect in this forum, and also the welcoming and inclusion you have been offered. If only all communities were like this :)

Cows are great on a farm for manure, maybe we can avoid killing them for their flesh at such a young age.

Let me tell you a story, I have a friend, his name is Jorg. He has a cow on his farm, her name is Rosie and Rosie is around 25 years old.

Would you consider having cows on your farm to help you and then you give them a name and let them live out their lives?
 

Paul Bradford

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I am not surprised, the concept of a forum is to provide a platform for discussion and debate and in my view any forum that moderates polite genuine discussion is either unsure of their beliefs or is designed to indoctorinate it's members with the principles in order to maintain the core belief.

I can understand the feeling people have about the killing of animals to obtain food and other materials, and if they choose to go vegan because of those feelings then that is a very good reason to adopt the lifestyle.

I've been involved with animals all my life, and by that I don't mean all my working life, I mean since the earliest memory that I have. I form relationships with the animals, I know each one that I have and remember many that have gone. If one is feeling poorly I recognise it probably before the animal knows, znd see to it making a speedy recovery, I am committed to their care 365 days of the year. Most of you will wonder just how evil a person I must be to be able to form these relationships and to then send them of to their deaths. I can justify my reasons for doing this, but I am not here to clear my conscience, nor am I here to try to lure you back to being meat eaters, I am here to debate a lot of the falsehoods that some vegans like to propagate and am willing to stand my corner in those debates.
I think the vegan cause does itself no favours in promoting spurious facts, because once those facts are exposed as falsehoods it damages the legitimacy of any others claims that are made.
I will also pose questions that need to be answered if the world did become a vegan world.
 

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As an outsider looking in, from what you say you want to spend the first part of your life exploiting the planet in order to provide yourself with the opportunity to live the final part in the manner that you feel is true to your beliefs, and you are in the transitional stage of achieving that aim? Is that correct?
You're exploiting the planet. Non-organic farming hurts the ecosystem you're in, no matter how much you think it's not, and having grass fed cattle is actually worse for the environment than factory farming them, because it takes up more land and your cattle still release methane. Methane is a severe issue with climate change, which is why "red meat" is considered the number one harm to the planet after fossil fuels. People who are not vegan frequently share this information online, in universities, and in the news. It's not a vegan myth that animal agriculture is the second biggest driver of climate change.

I am going to give you hell because I actually know what I'm talking about, and some of the people here might go easier on you because they legitimately don't understand how wrong you are and how manipulative you're being. You're also actually quite rude, you claim to be civil and polite, but this post and others you've made elsewhere are full of snide, hateful insinuations that have little or nothing to do with what the person actually said.

That Chickpea family lives in the South, they aren't even like New York people or something, and I personally live in Northern California in a place known for its farming.
 

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Welcome! I hope you have good time on this forum.

I studied and graduated from an agricultural school. So I know what work you do and how rewarding it can be, as it is probably one of the most hardest physically and mentally. it's not merely a job, it's your life, when you aren't taking care of the animals, you are thinking about them. I'd still like to work with animals: in a sanctuary or something like that.

But I have also studied zoology on my own, and I can't accept the way we treat animals: take the calf away from the cow, keep hen's in a tiny cage, the horrors of slaughter and list goes on. But don't take this as judgemental, I know that you are doing your best with what you have got.

I'm really happy that you are open to new ideas. I hope you find what you are looking for.
 
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veganDreama

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Hello and welcome! I'm a city person myself and feel very strongly against factory farming so we probably won't share too many views. I know about factory farming as I visited an agricultural college and didn't like the way the animals were kept and that was at a college.

I don't know about 'fresh air in the countryside' . Animal farms make the countryside stink.
 
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