Hi from Sweden

g0rph

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Hi.
Just thought I would join and check this place out and share some thoughts.
First off, I just ditched /r/vegan because of the extreme vegans and toxic atmosphere.

I gave up meat, dairy, eggs, and all other animal products a short few months ago.

I get hate over there because I am not against dog breeding if done correctly. Okay, for sure, some dogs still need a non-vegan diet, but vegan dog food exists, and biomeat will surely replace animals pretty soon. And I assume that most meat that's used in petfood is the off-cuts that are not sold for human consumption.
(If I am incorrect then let me know).

However, I love dogs, and of course we should try to adopt from a rescue centre where possible, but here in Sweden, there are not many of those, and none within 3 hours of where I am. We don't have a stray dog problem as far as I can see. Dogs must be chipped, jabbed etc and the cost is very high, even for rescues.

Aside from the potential issue with dog food, I see the human-canine relationship as a very healthy, mutually beneficial relationship, rather than exploitation.
Others may see it differently, and that's fine.

I also do not have an issue with using non-vegan clothes that were bought before making the change. I am strongly opposed to trashing them which some people have suggested.

We grow a lot of our own veg in summer, have fruit, potatoes, bok-choy, herbs, cucumber, tomatoes, raspberries, blackcurrents, blueberries, redberries, gooseberries rhubarb etc.

Anyway, I hope it's cool.
(btw I am the only vegan I know nearby, including my family, but as I do all the cooking, they eat 90% vegan :) ) Head-chef G0rph. Male (in my 50s)
 
Välkommen till VF :wave:

I'm not sure about dog breeding, but I think we're on the same page about a lot of other things!
Hi there!

Yes, the thing with dogs.
Humans have a close emotional and very long-term attachment to them.
The relationship is mutually beneficial in most cases.

If we are to try and convince other people that raising and slaughtering farm animals is morally wrong, that's one thing.
But if you say "Why are you not vegan?" , even like the way Ed Winters does it (and he is the person who convinced me to change), then you also add "Oh by the way, you can't be going to a breeder for your next Labrador when "Prince" dies... that isn't vegan...Then that's a whole different fight.
And IMO it isn't one we should be having. Not with people who quite obviously love their companion animals like a family member.

Of course I am not supporting so-called "puppy farms" or irresponsible breeders.
But I would hate to see some of the magnificent breeds die out...Your Mastiffs, German Shepherds, Irish Wolfhounds, English Setters, Yorkshire terriers, Beagles, Corgis, Labradors, etc etc. That would be criminal.

Cats on the other hand, whilst I love them like the next person, are an invasive, unnatural predator and the same laws as dogs should be enforced to prevent them from roaming free. And right now, it is irresponsible to feed them a vegan diet.
Fairly soon of course we will see widespread use of biomeat which will solve that problem.

Anyway, I am rambling.
 
Värmland... But I am an immigrant... From the UK :)
I was in Göteborg last weekend watching Magnus Uggla, Petter and Miss Li :)
Hey, I'm from the UK too. Been 7 years in Gothenburg, five three as a citizen. Nice to meet you. :)
 
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Man, we get around. And yep, I am a citizen. I started the process when the UK started the whole Brexit mess.
I must admit, Brexit scared me, but I was sorted before it was finalized, thankfully. BTW, it was three years as a citizen, not five. Don't know how I got that wrong!
 
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You had me until you called cats invasive, unnatural predators lol. I love cats and have three. They are indoor only and they are my world, next to my children and grandchildren.
 
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You had me until you called cats invasive, unnatural predators lol. I love cats and have three. They are indoor only and they are my world, next to my children and grandchildren.

LOL, I love cats too!
But there is a big problem in many areas where there are lots of "pet cats" roaming around killing birds, mice, insects.
Indoor cats are not an issue in that regard.
I'm not sure about the rules where you live but here, for example, the rules on dog "ownership" are strict. They must not be allowed to roam. They "must" be chipped and registered and they cost a fortune...rightly so. The same rules should apply to cats IMO. But many people let their cats have kittens and sell them on dirt cheap...not good.

And of course "right now" it is problematic to feed them a vegan diet, and I wouldn't personally. Our dog eats meat products, but I am hoping biomeat based dog (and cat) food becomes available soon.
 
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Don't they get insanely bored? It doesn't seem like a natural lifestyle for a predator.
I have a friend in England with indoor cats. They seem extremely happy. They do get to go out every day, but supervised.

The predator instinct can be satisfied with non-living things...lights, soft toys, balls, play houses etc, not to mention, each other. If you must have cats, you should have at least 2... :)
 
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Don't they get insanely bored? It doesn't seem like a natural lifestyle for a predator.
It’s not…natural. Sure they have moments of boredom. But I’m pretty good with them… they get playtime every day…running and chasing…mostly with me. I just can’t let them out here. First, they are rescued and I had to sign saying they would be indoor only. It’s a big thing here. Second, we have fox and coyote. They’ve been in my yard as evidenced by the trail cam that I have. Every single day there are FB posts about missing dogs and cats. Most of the dogs are found safe but not all. And sadly, most of the cats are never seen again. So there are people here who let their cats out but I can’t/won’t do it.

Also, I love to feed the wildlife…birds, squirrels, chipmunks…I have a couple of chipmunks who now come when I call them because they know they are going to get peanuts. As much as I wouldn’t want my cats to be prey, I also don’t want them preying on the birds and chipmunks!
 
LOL, I love cats too!
But there is a big problem in many areas where there are lots of "pet cats" roaming around killing birds, mice, insects.
Indoor cats are not an issue in that regard.
I'm not sure about the rules where you live but here, for example, the rules on dog "ownership" are strict. They must not be allowed to roam. They "must" be chipped and registered and they cost a fortune...rightly so. The same rules should apply to cats IMO. But many people let their cats have kittens and sell them on dirt cheap...not good.

And of course "right now" it is problematic to feed them a vegan diet, and I wouldn't personally. Our dog eats meat products, but I am hoping biomeat based dog (and cat) food becomes available soon.
We have “rules” here for dogs…no free roaming and chipping is voluntary. Unfortunately, people don’t obey the leash law and sadly, the law is not enforced. There have been many altercations between the people in the community over the ones who obey the leash law and the ones who don’t seem to care.

I don‘t believe there are any rules for cats but I’d have to check up on that. I’m surprised by how many people let their cats outside. I’ve only been in this area in Connecticut for two years and there are definitely more outdoor cats here than there were where I lived in New York. I guess you could say it’s more rural here, but then you have more predators. Some people think that because they live on a cul de sac or dead end street that the cats will be safe from cars, but they ignore the other dangers.
 
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We have “rules” here for dogs…no free roaming and chipping is voluntary. Unfortunately, people don’t obey the leash law and sadly, the law is not enforced. There have been many altercations between the people in the community over the ones who obey the leash law and the ones who don’t seem to care.

I don‘t believe there are any rules for cats but I’d have to check up on that. I’m surprised by how many people let their cats outside. I’ve only been in this area in Connecticut for two years and there are definitely more outdoor cats here than there were where I lived in New York. I guess you could say it’s more rural here, but then you have more predators. Some people think that because they live on a cul de sac or dead end street that the cats will be safe from cars, but they ignore the other dangers.
Where I live in Sweden, the cats themselves are fairly safe themselves. I have seen foxes, and not far away there are wolves, but there are not many (maybe a few hundred in the entire country).
But almost all cats around me roam free. I was outside in my garden trying to get a photo of a magnificent butterfly one day, when next doors cat came running toward me, leaped and grabbed it in its mouth... :(
It's a shame, I love our neighbour's cats...They are friendly and come for cuddles...but they are killers...
 
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Welcome from BC, Canada!

I love my neighbour's cats as well, but despise them in my garden beds. I've resorted to motion sensor sprinklers. It seemed to keep the deer away from my apple tree last year too.

It's the cat's nature is to kill. It reminds me of the frog and scorpion fable. I think Bob Barker had it right when he would say "Help control the pet population, have your pets spayed or neutered".

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