Help me with an argument on dairy cows

Maya

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Just having a conversation with someone who I tried to explain how cruel the dairy industry is. I explained that they're constantly impregnated and ripped from their calves and usually die after 4 years from exhaustion which I don't think is fair. I'm new to the vegan community so would love some help in explaining more to her response which is

"Hey I agree that how cows are treated is not right as in how they're killed for meat but I've seen for myself that cows dont get hurt because of us milking them and us buying milk has got nothing to do with the meat process because if u dont milk cows they get mastitis and will die and mastitis is horrible and painful. And we dont keep them constantly pregnant yes every year they calve but sometimes the bull gets them before the needles do so for the rest that dont fall pregnant they do get the needle. Calf milk called colostrum milk can't be sold in store as it's yuck and is actually used to feed the calves so they get the nutrition they need. But the meat process and how they kill is horrible I agree about that but unfortunately it's never gonna change it will only get worse if anything because not everyone's gonna give up meat. Cows aren't sent away after 4 years we have several that have been on the farm for a good 10 years, what I've seen is the cows that have been put on the truck are the cows that have fallen sick and we have tried everything to help them but they don't recover or the cows that have broken their foot as it's really hard to fix and so painful for them. And I asked my mate who's a farmer why do they take their baby's off them too I said look how sad it is and she said yes it's sad but if u leave the calve with it's mother for too long it takes too much of her milk like drinks off her sometimes just to be a piggy and drains her of energy and it's hard to get her health back to 100%. So imagine if they left all calves with their Mothers a lot more cows would be sent to meat works due to getting sick. Just thought id let u know this side of things as I've seen it first hand on several farms, as farmers don't do bad things to their cows they love their cows it's those people that do treat their animals and cows horrible that make all the decent hard working farmers look bad."
(Btw we are both in NZ and she is explaining her point of view from a NZ farming experience)
 
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Feel free to use any of this in your rebuttal:


buying milk has got nothing to do with the meat process because if u dont milk cows they get mastitis and will die and mastitis is horrible and painful.
Buying milk means a cow in captivity has given birth. If it's a female, it becomes another dairy cow. If it's a male, it's "useless" and killed for veal. The dairy cows are killed as well for meat, about 20 years before their natural span.

Only cows who give birth need to be milked....and we're the ones impregnating them (either by our hand or forced breeding). This process, and the mastitis you speak of, is entirely avoidable and unnecessary.

And we dont keep them constantly pregnant yes every year they calve but sometimes the bull gets them before the needles do so for the rest that dont fall pregnant they do get the needle. Calf milk called colostrum milk can't be sold in store as it's yuck and is actually used to feed the calves so they get the nutrition they need.
Although I appreciate the slightly less horrific version of cow raising this person uses, it doesn't change the fact that the OVERWHELMING majority of meat and dairy comes from factory farming, and that needs to be addressed.

But the meat process and how they kill is horrible I agree about that but unfortunately it's never gonna change it will only get worse if anything because not everyone's gonna give up meat.
What is the point of this statement? We can try and tighten regulations on animal care in factory farms, we can go vegan and lower demand, etc. We're not gonna snap our fingers and save the world, but millions less animals have to die per year due to the persistent efforts of people who give a ****. I'll gladly keep at it.

Cows aren't sent away after 4 years we have several that have been on the farm for a good 10 years, what I've seen is the cows that have been put on the truck are the cows that have fallen sick and we have tried everything to help them but they don't recover or the cows that have broken their foot as it's really hard to fix and so painful for them.
10 years? So it's still half of a lifetime for cows. Listen, I get these points are trying to paint the brush of a caring person who tries to do everything to treat their animals right, but the result is still the same. You try to keep them alive and healthy until you kill them...and that's the BEST outcome for the cow. Do you see the issue?

And I asked my mate who's a farmer why do they take their baby's off them too I said look how sad it is and she said yes it's sad but if u leave the calve with it's mother for too long it takes too much of her milk like drinks off her sometimes just to be a piggy and drains her of energy and it's hard to get her health back to 100%.
I find it strange that you'll mention all of these things that are "bad" for the cow, but act like killing them is OK. What could be worse than that? Also, you don't need to be a veterinarian or an animal expert to know that statement is ******** regarding the calf. The milk was MADE for them by nature. It doesn't harm a mother to feed its baby milk. You know what does? Taking the baby. Impregnating them on a schedule. Over milking. These are things WE do, and you're going to pretend you're committing a merciful act by taking a baby from its mother because it's "draining her"? You lost me there.

So imagine if they left all calves with their Mothers a lot more cows would be sent to meat works due to getting sick.
Imagine if they left animals alone to naturally reproduce and live out their lifespan with their families, how many less would be sent to slaughter. Man, the rationalization here is something else.
 

Jamie in Chile

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She says she agrees that it's horrible they are killed. Explain that dairy cows are also killed. if she's against killing which is part of the dairy process she should be against dairy.